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dogstar
Join Date: 2003-11-03 Member: 22249Members
Join Date: 2003-11-03 Member: 22249Members
and i came to see if ns2 was out.
i haven't played in like a year and i think this is a good game but there's been things about this game that have always bugged me and turned me away from ns maps to playing co maps for a while.
it always annoyed me that when aliens get 3rd hive it's pretty much game over for marines or if marines lock down two hives it's usually game over for aliens. there's not really any way to pull off a come back in those situations. also aliens upgrades like health and movement, they're limited by the hives they have. marines can have armor and weapons upgrades so long as they have the resources and time to research but if aliens have the res they can't get them unless they get the hive and you never really get to play around with the third chamber before the game ends. i think it would be better if you are able to build all chambers but only get the effect of one if you only have one hive and two if you have two hives and so on.
so was thinking that really i'd enjoy this game a lot more if some things were different. like if jet packs and fades were removed. aliens don't need res towers but instead get res over time based on how many marines they're up against. friendly fire is always on. and a few other things but i dont' think you people care.
but what i wanted to see in this game when i first started playing years ago was all out combat and yes i know there are co maps but they suck in comparison to ns maps and i'd rather play cs or dod over that. i wanted to see all out battles for every room and hallway and fight for every inch of space. instead its just give a marine a jet pack and let him ninja into alien hive and drop a pg and you know the rest. playing as an alien i felt limited, i go fade or onos and mess up and die before i rack up some kills to pay for another, well too bad. i'll try and kill more marines with their weapon and armor upgrades as a skulk for a while. i know ns is much more complex than this but it's what i've normally experienced. so the games got boring. there wasn't enough combat in ns_ and co_ sucked.
i am looking forward to ns2. be back in a year i guess
i haven't played in like a year and i think this is a good game but there's been things about this game that have always bugged me and turned me away from ns maps to playing co maps for a while.
it always annoyed me that when aliens get 3rd hive it's pretty much game over for marines or if marines lock down two hives it's usually game over for aliens. there's not really any way to pull off a come back in those situations. also aliens upgrades like health and movement, they're limited by the hives they have. marines can have armor and weapons upgrades so long as they have the resources and time to research but if aliens have the res they can't get them unless they get the hive and you never really get to play around with the third chamber before the game ends. i think it would be better if you are able to build all chambers but only get the effect of one if you only have one hive and two if you have two hives and so on.
so was thinking that really i'd enjoy this game a lot more if some things were different. like if jet packs and fades were removed. aliens don't need res towers but instead get res over time based on how many marines they're up against. friendly fire is always on. and a few other things but i dont' think you people care.
but what i wanted to see in this game when i first started playing years ago was all out combat and yes i know there are co maps but they suck in comparison to ns maps and i'd rather play cs or dod over that. i wanted to see all out battles for every room and hallway and fight for every inch of space. instead its just give a marine a jet pack and let him ninja into alien hive and drop a pg and you know the rest. playing as an alien i felt limited, i go fade or onos and mess up and die before i rack up some kills to pay for another, well too bad. i'll try and kill more marines with their weapon and armor upgrades as a skulk for a while. i know ns is much more complex than this but it's what i've normally experienced. so the games got boring. there wasn't enough combat in ns_ and co_ sucked.
i am looking forward to ns2. be back in a year i guess
Comments
and I also have bad news. Well, its mostly bad news. Anyway...
<!--quoteo(post=1673527:date=Mar 18 2008, 02:51 PM:name=dogstar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dogstar @ Mar 18 2008, 02:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1673527"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->and i came to see if ns2 was out.
i haven't played in like a year and i think this is a good game but there's been things about this game that have always bugged me and turned me away from ns maps to playing co maps for a while.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What turned you away from NS maps is your lack of understanding of the overall picture. NS has a steep learning curve and many players drop because of that. You are one of them.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it always annoyed me that when aliens get 3rd hive it's pretty much game over for marines or if marines lock down two hives it's usually game over for aliens. there's not really any way to pull off a come back in those situations.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These are only problems on 32 man servers, this comes from the simple fact that marines have an advantage in time and resources. If as alien, you hold 4 nodes with 15 players, it is going to take decades for a single person to get 50 res, while in a 6v6 its going to take about 3 minutes. The game is balanced for 6v6s so marines will be far more advanced than aliens by that time (most pub commanders choose to invest in turrets at hives, while in 6v6 its simply not possible because you don't get "extra" imbalanced res) and aliens will lose due to improper balance.
Getting a 3rd hive for aliens is usually the <i>only</i> way aliens can win, because 3rd hive gives fades a ranged weapon, which quickly makes them godlike in a battle of attrition. While gorges get web which severely hinders any and all marine progress outside of marine start, making turtling mandatory. Turtling marines die to 3 chamber fade acid. While 2 hive aliens just end up fighting inch for inch, which will mean that they can't win before marines will severely out-tech them w/o a 3rd hive.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->also aliens upgrades like health and movement, they're limited by the hives they have. marines can have armor and weapons upgrades so long as they have the resources and time to research but if aliens have the res they can't get them unless they get the hive and you never really get to play around with the third chamber before the game ends. i think it would be better if you are able to build all chambers but only get the effect of one if you only have one hive and two if you have two hives and so on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How you're suggesting it - level one upgrades would be useless, while level 2 upgrades will be way overpowered. I hope thwis ill be changed in NS2 also though.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->so was thinking that really i'd enjoy this game a lot more if some things were different. like if jet packs and fades were removed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jet packs do not equal fades. Fades are <u>significantly</u> more important for aliens than jetpacks are for marines. Aliens can do absolutely 0 without a good fade or two.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->aliens don't need res towers but instead get res over time based on how many marines they're up against. friendly fire is always on. and a few other things but i dont' think you people care.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So aliens will always progress linearly? What a boring game that would be.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i wanted to see all out battles for every room and hallway and fight for every inch of space.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Most of the time spent by marine players in NS is either running around or holding their use key. Smart players found the solution to this problem. Run in the hive to maximize combat time!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->playing as an alien i felt limited, i go fade or onos and mess up and die before i rack up some kills to pay for another, well too bad. i'll try and kill more marines with their weapon and armor upgrades as a skulk for a while. i know ns is much more complex than this but it's what i've normally experienced. so the games got boring. there wasn't enough combat in ns_ and co_ sucked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Playing marine is much easier than alien, you should stick to team1 until you learn everything there is to learn about it and improve your aim and map control. In addition, to improve your fading, start a singleplayer game and try to blink around maps w/ celerity without hitting anything. Good luck!
That way they have more choices on how to approach fighting the marines. In general, it felt like there was a certain winning formula for each map and if you didn't stick exactly the appropriate forumula, you lose. After a while you get bored, even when winning, because you just did the same thing as last game.
Starcraft is still good because so many different tactics are viable, and the real skill is knowing what ALL your tools are so you can quickly counter an unexpected attack. In NS you make one decision for better or worse. Only marines have any chance at adapting to the unexpected. In *rare* exceptions the teams counter each other back and forth and have an Epic Battle .
And in criticizing my own suggestion, part of the problem is that there's many people on one team. So to avoid confusion and maximize effeciency, people choose the lowest common denominator strategy (i.e: "take double"). In Starcraft you can take a risk with a wild strategy and the only person you let down is you.
Here's some other suggestions to increase the variance of each game: Alien spawn should not be detectable right away by the commander at all whatsoever - Scouting must be required. There should be more than 3 potiential hive locations or dynamic (no fixed) hive locations, thus adding to the unpredictability. Also, a mobile command chair would be nice as well to keep the aliens on their toes, and allowing the marines a narrow escape from a bum rush on base.
So basically, make the game into starcraft and all will be well. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
That way they have more choices on how to approach fighting the marines. In general, it felt like there was a certain winning formula for each map and if you didn't stick exactly the appropriate forumula, you lose. After a while you get bored, even when winning, because you just did the same thing as last game.
Starcraft is still good because so many different tactics are viable, and the real skill is knowing what ALL your tools are so you can quickly counter an unexpected attack. In NS you make one decision for better or worse. Only marines have any chance at adapting to the unexpected. In *rare* exceptions the teams counter each other back and forth and have an Epic Battle .
And in criticizing my own suggestion, part of the problem is that there's many people on one team. So to avoid confusion and maximize effeciency, people choose the lowest common denominator strategy (i.e: "take double"). In Starcraft you can take a risk with a wild strategy and the only person you let down is you.
Here's some other suggestions to increase the variance of each game: Alien spawn should not be detectable right away by the commander at all whatsoever - Scouting must be required. There should be more than 3 potiential hive locations or dynamic (no fixed) hive locations, thus adding to the unpredictability. Also, a mobile command chair would be nice as well to keep the aliens on their toes, and allowing the marines a narrow escape from a bum rush on base.
So basically, make the game into starcraft and all will be well. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well remember in Starcraft probes do what you tell them, in NS you are relying on the entire team..
Strategic and tactical diversity?
I just played a game on NS_Veil as commander, Cargo (Central hive) was the aliens main, so I told the marines to head towards SUB hive and PIPE hive and avoid double, my Pipe crew decided to spread out and they died, so I focused on SUB hive instead and medded the best teamplaying marines, while going for early OBS + Phasegate (which obviously meant a sacrifice, slower upgrades for armor and guns)..
A baserush meant I had to beacon, but we had SUB rt capped, so I sent Marines down to the junction just outside Sub, put up a phasegate, which meant I could attack both Cargo and Double while defending Sub, also meant the phasegate was generally out of Lerk gas range..
Double was incredibly lamed up with aliens offence chambers, it was turning into a meatgrinder, so I gave the 3 best marines shotguns and sent them to Cargo, told them not to hit the RT (which they didn't), we dropped a PG there, once that was up, I got the marines phasing in down there, but I didn't want to lame it up, simply because the aliens had free roam across the centre of the map...
Based on the marine and alien skill, the game is 75% going to the aliens, simply because they have 5 rts and also because Cargo will last about 3 mins without any defence, with a fade out, defence was pointless, so I risked ONE marine, building on the left side of double, spent 45 res with no PG (as I knew most aliens were tied up fighting marines at cargo) to build tf, upgrade and sieges...
So now I sieged out double, which split the alien team between defending that and attacking Cargo..
I recycled PG outside sub to increase the rate marines were coming through at Cargo..
I managed to get 2 guys into an empty double, laid down one PG and started getting the rt's up..
I am not going indepth about the skill of the Lerk, the Fade, the ammo humpers, the builders, the shooting skill, all those variables..
This description covers about one third of the game just played..
Natural Selection has massive tactical diversity because each of your 'units' is a random human being, not a droid you can send somewhere..
And in starcraft you can try risky manouvers, but Stork had a choice between Reaver drop + some carriers OR A lot of carriers against FLash in the finals.. there was no other way he was gonna play..