Autobuild With Cooldown
Radix
Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34654Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1674513:date=Mar 28 2008, 04:44 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Mar 28 2008, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My idea was to have some kind of 'buildpack'. You press E once, then the pack does the rest of the job, and you can piss off. (Or perhaps you'd have to stay in proximity, dunno. Discuss.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, at first it seemed dumb because it was so different but it actually kind of makes sense, but you'd have to implement it as an ability every marine starts with. Example, comm drops double on Tanith and 2 marines go to double (hopefully not in that order). They use their autobuild system, one marine on each node. A little wristwatch drops and turns into a robot of some form (or some other such bull######). The marine then can go anywhere he wants, but will have to manually build if he wants to build anything else until the bot is done building the double RT.
At any time during the autobuild process an alien can come and eat the bot, and the ability to autobuild will return to the marine immediately. The RT will remain unbuilt but the autobuild can be re-initiated by any marine whose autobuild isn't in cooldown, or they can just manually press E to finish the RT. If the build finishes the buildbot returns to the marine instantly.
A marine cannot build the same structure that his bot is currently building (you could give the bot some kind of arrogant personality quirk to explain this, or any other of bull###### explanations for the sake of gameplay).
Only 3 (or some number) of autobuild bots can be active on the map at any time (considering a calculation for how many rt's, and how much subsequent res the marines should be getting based on balancing statistics).
The effect I see on gameplay is why I'm (re)suggesting this:
Marines no longer have to spend tedious time building, but they still have to babysit the node as it builds, meaning the game doesn't speed up exponentially, and the game remains focused on resources while it turns more directly to encounters between marines and aliens and less into a rehearsed storyline that everyone has already seen the ending of.
Pubbers will do this as it's a very small task that will help the team greatly. It will make the pub game (even on terrible servers, or during NS2's twilight) livable.
Clan play won't lose the cap team, because node capping will still be important, and capping the nodes away from the starting hive is far safer than trying to get pressure to do it. It's possible that pressure and cap will stay close to each other, but that makes sense and isn't a tremendous deviation from the first game especially considering NS2 is a sequel, not a remake.
Anyway, I'm positive this idea has a lot of problems, but I think it's worth a topic at least.
You know, at first it seemed dumb because it was so different but it actually kind of makes sense, but you'd have to implement it as an ability every marine starts with. Example, comm drops double on Tanith and 2 marines go to double (hopefully not in that order). They use their autobuild system, one marine on each node. A little wristwatch drops and turns into a robot of some form (or some other such bull######). The marine then can go anywhere he wants, but will have to manually build if he wants to build anything else until the bot is done building the double RT.
At any time during the autobuild process an alien can come and eat the bot, and the ability to autobuild will return to the marine immediately. The RT will remain unbuilt but the autobuild can be re-initiated by any marine whose autobuild isn't in cooldown, or they can just manually press E to finish the RT. If the build finishes the buildbot returns to the marine instantly.
A marine cannot build the same structure that his bot is currently building (you could give the bot some kind of arrogant personality quirk to explain this, or any other of bull###### explanations for the sake of gameplay).
Only 3 (or some number) of autobuild bots can be active on the map at any time (considering a calculation for how many rt's, and how much subsequent res the marines should be getting based on balancing statistics).
The effect I see on gameplay is why I'm (re)suggesting this:
Marines no longer have to spend tedious time building, but they still have to babysit the node as it builds, meaning the game doesn't speed up exponentially, and the game remains focused on resources while it turns more directly to encounters between marines and aliens and less into a rehearsed storyline that everyone has already seen the ending of.
Pubbers will do this as it's a very small task that will help the team greatly. It will make the pub game (even on terrible servers, or during NS2's twilight) livable.
Clan play won't lose the cap team, because node capping will still be important, and capping the nodes away from the starting hive is far safer than trying to get pressure to do it. It's possible that pressure and cap will stay close to each other, but that makes sense and isn't a tremendous deviation from the first game especially considering NS2 is a sequel, not a remake.
Anyway, I'm positive this idea has a lot of problems, but I think it's worth a topic at least.
Comments
Doesn't seem like it would change gameplay dramatically, since I could see midrange/higher level play still use marines as decoy builders. Not just as munch on decoys but also something like the aliens yelling 'we have a marine building a node, quick check for an autobuild, lerk!'.
If not an official implementation, seems to be easy to implement with LUA!!!!!!!
=A) A timer. In my idea, there would be a "timer", per se, just so a marine would know when the building finished or when he can next build (likely, the commander would also have an icon above the marine). On this I agree with you. And also, as with your idea, when an alien does attack once, the structure will stop auto-building, and the marine will know the moment he can build again - because the timer stopped (finished building), or was interrupted (alien attacked). BUT it's different to your idea in that it isn't a cooldown; the moment a building finishes, a marine can start on another - and it's really more of a 'progress bar' than a timer, in that sense: the marine needs to know when his building has been completed.
-B) Limited number of autobuilds. I really don't see the point of this, there's no reason any marine can't just build. That also implies that the other marines will HAVE to build manually, and that entirely defeats the purpose of the idea. But maybe it's a cumbersome way to balance things in regards to:
-C) Giving marines the ability to still build manually. I'm against this. As I've said, it defeats the purpose of the idea (remove the button-holding). In my idea, every marine can place a buildpack (press E once) on one structure at a time, and you can 'stack' on a single structure to build faster - but no single marine can build more than one structure at a time.
Really, my idea is essentially identical to the original building implementation - you just remove the boring button-holding.
(Oh and yes, it is an ability ANY marine can have, and EVERY marine starts with.)
A bit of clarification: once you press E you can wander off, or stay and defend, makes no difference, but either way the structure will start building.
An expansion: A marine can press E again to 'pause' HIS auto-building, in case his building efforts are needed elsewhere. (He has to go back and press E on the structure that he was building.)
Alternatively, if he presses E on a new structure before the previous one had finished building, his building on that other structure is stopped, and he starts on the second structure, and someone will have to go back and finish building the previous structure.
<!--quoteo(post=1674677:date=Mar 30 2008, 04:49 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Mar 30 2008, 04:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->it isn't a cooldown; the moment a building finishes, a marine can start on another<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly what I said. I'm using the word cooldown to express the time between when one of the buildbots is deployed, and when it finishes building.
<!--quoteo(post=1674677:date=Mar 30 2008, 04:49 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Mar 30 2008, 04:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Limited number of autobuilds. I really don't see the point of this...implies that the other marines will HAVE to build manually<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No it doesn't. In fact it implies just the opposite if you understand how to optimize your resources (time, pressure, position, as well as vesper) based on opportunity cost. This is arguably the most beautiful part of the proposed system, because it gets pubbers building while forcing competitive players not to spend extra time doing something boring that they would otherwise do (<!--coloro:lime--><span style="color:lime"><!--/coloro-->because the opportunity cost of building without buildbots is not worth the extra res you would garner in competitive play<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->).
<!--quoteo(post=1674677:date=Mar 30 2008, 04:49 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Mar 30 2008, 04:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Giving marines the ability to still build manually. I'm against this. As I've said, it defeats the purpose of the idea (remove the button-holding).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, this is not your idea. My objective in this proposal is to improve gameplay holistically, whereas you seem much more interested in simply negating a boring factor of FPS gameplay while ignoring how it might close off options to someone trying to play the RTS side of the game.
But an auto builder robot does sound really cool. Maybe it costs a bunch of res, like as much as a welder. Then I'd like the idea. I think of the Supreme Commander drones with the little laser thingies. And this would also open up the competitive game. You just can't make it a default ability.
<!--quoteo(post=1674687:date=Mar 30 2008, 11:37 PM:name=Radix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Mar 30 2008, 11:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674687"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No it doesn't. In fact it implies just the opposite if you understand how to optimize your resources (time, pressure, position, as well as <i>vesper*</i>) based on opportunity cost.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, according to your idea, you give marines the ability to build manually - but make it such that no one that's not a complete idiot would ever make use of that ability?
Also, I don't see how the idea as you proposed it, would necessarily improve gameplay.
*Err, what is <i>vesper</i>?
<!--quoteo(post=1674714:date=Mar 31 2008, 09:05 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(juice @ Mar 31 2008, 09:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the defenselessness of marines who must build really adds alot to the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. You're right. <b>Unfortunately</b> these ideas do mean that people die less, and <b>unfortunately</b> it does mean that player's experiences <b>aren't</b> ruined when they die because they followed the commander's orders and were forced to ignore the threats around them to hold a button on a stationary structure.
Silly me, how could I miss that?
It allows for more strategic flexibility.
The idea/discussion came up in the "remove rts" thread, so I rather see a new topic about that than people derailing the old thread topic, which would be disrespectful to the creator of the thread.
...<b>Marines no longer have to spend tedious time building</b>...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ironically, your post contains the reasons why this idea would never work.
Can you please refrain from posting riddles and instead state exactly what you find wrong with something?
But an auto builder robot does sound really cool. Maybe it costs a bunch of res, like as much as a welder. Then I'd like the idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, it would have to be an expensive, easy to kill drone, or else the marine position just isn't vulnerable enough. I like <b>radix</b>'s proposed changes and agree that they're approaching the game holistically rather than "OMG I don't want to build anything ever!"
It allows for more strategic flexibility.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I really don't see it mate. Give me a working scenario.
<!--QuoteBegin-Juice+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Juice)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But an auto builder robot does sound really cool. Maybe it costs a bunch of res, like as much as a welder. Then I'd like the idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-locallyunscene+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I agree, it would have to be an expensive, easy to kill drone,<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In other words, increase the cost of structures in a very resource oriented game - and make it such that the cost+risk to potential benefit ratio makes the ability relatively impractical or unwise. (Or did you mean an <b>instant</b> build, or at least a very quick build?)
Or, of course, you could just tell marines to hold their E key on the structures, and F-ck them if it's not enjoyable, am I right? I mean, why would you want to have fun in a video game?
<b>Harimau</b>'s purpose of removing building from the game, yes. I think that is a bad idea because then marines are no longer vulnerable while sieging/building nodes. If you could spam or continuously send a bunch of free builders to build sieges you would hardly need marines at all.
Well according to the podcasts(forth or seventh) sieges may have the ability to "walk", so yes they are different. However, this doesn't really address the point that marines would no longer be vulnerable while building.
It changes the gameplay substantially, you're no longer baiting or ambushing since you're able to take marines head on. Maybe that's what you want, but that's not my preference.
Marines on veil push to topo and west, drop autobuilds on them and leave. The autobuilds fizzle (disturbed by aliens), so they drop new ones on C12 and overlook. C12 finishes building but overlook fizzles as the aliens' (hive cargo) decided to push sub side of the map. The marines, now starving for res, send the cap team back through topo and into pipe, camping the RTs as they build to ensure completion.
Later in the game the marines have rushed proto (bad comm, sure, but just assume they did) and they're low on res as aliens have chewed down several towers. The marines take pressure off of attack and send all 5 players to cap nodes. They spend 45 seconds doing this, and another 30 waiting for income, and rush the second hive, followed by the first, and win.
Contrast this with a scenario where the marines have to simply sit and wait for the buildbot to finish while they babysit a node that probably won't even be attacked. It's far more boring, and it doesn't let the comm rush RTs up like he can in my implementation.
I'm not advocating that <b><u>all</u></b> structures be auto-buildable, mostly rudimentary structures like resource nodes and possibly a couple of other minor entities like command chairs (for more feasible relocations).
Silly me, how could I miss that?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dying while building doesn't ruin players' experiences. I can see how it would make the game more frustrating for little tykes though. But the focus should be on improving the game overall, not trying to "fix" something that isn't broken in order to make the game more appealing to a younger crowd / wider audience. So I think what Radix is trying to do is a step in the right direction. Worry about people getting bored because they have to hold down the use button assumes they aren't thinking about the game during that time. I know I am completely occupied while I'm building, even if there aren't any enemies close by. There's lots of thinking and map watching to do to make sure your next move is smart.
Wait, what? Who said <b>anything</b> about babysitting? You place the pack and go, if that's what you desire - or you <b>can</b> babysit/defend, since that is an option. Why wouldn't you be able to cap five nodes at a time if you had five players (ie. five packs)?
<!--quoteo(post=1674813:date=Apr 2 2008, 01:19 AM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Apr 2 2008, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674813"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Harimau</b>'s purpose of removing building from the game, yes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good job with ignoring my posts, mate.
<!--quoteo(post=1674813:date=Apr 2 2008, 01:19 AM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Apr 2 2008, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674813"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that is a bad idea because then marines are no longer vulnerable while sieging/building nodes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--><!--quoteo(post=1674723:date=Mar 31 2008, 12:26 PM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Mar 31 2008, 12:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1674714:date=Mar 31 2008, 09:05 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(juice @ Mar 31 2008, 09:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the defenselessness of marines who must build really adds alot to the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. You're right. <b>Unfortunately</b> these ideas do mean that people die less, and <b>unfortunately</b> it does mean that player's experiences <b>aren't</b> ruined when they die because they followed the commander's orders and were forced to ignore the threats around them to hold a button on a stationary structure.
Silly me, how could I miss that?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Personally, I'm not a masochist.
<!--quoteo(post=1674857:date=Apr 2 2008, 06:27 AM:name=juice)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(juice @ Apr 2 2008, 06:27 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674857"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dying while building doesn't ruin players' experiences. I can see how it would make the game more frustrating for little tykes though. But the focus should be on improving the game overall, not trying to "fix" something that isn't broken in order to make the game more appealing to a younger crowd / wider audience. [...] Worrying about people getting bored because they have to hold down the use button assumes they aren't thinking about the game during that time. I know I am completely occupied while I'm building, even if there aren't any enemies close by. There's lots of thinking and map watching to do to make sure your next move is smart.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're joking, right?
Are you telling me you lack the ability to think while you're running around (or not running around) the map - and that you can only think when you're standing, facing a stationary building and holding the USE key?
And yes of course you're occupied when you're building - that's my point. You're occupied with holding the USE key. Does your holding the USE key give you or your team any specific advantages that they would not otherwise get, or add to your enjoyment at all?
What you're doing is placing undue importance on a <b>very</b> arbitrary and ineffectual aspect of the game. Just <b>try</b> to tell me you play Natural Selection for the building, with a straight face.
If you take the time to read the scenario for comprehesion it makes sense. Remember this is <b>radix</b>'s version of how buildpacks/bots would work, and in his version, kharaa can disrupt the building process.
<!--quoteo(post=1674893:date=Apr 2 2008, 01:55 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Apr 2 2008, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Good job with ignoring my posts, mate.
Yes. You're right. <b>Unfortunately</b> these ideas do mean that people die less, and <b>unfortunately</b> it does mean that player's experiences <b>aren't</b> ruined when they die because they followed the commander's orders and were forced to ignore the threats around them to hold a button on a stationary structure.
Silly me, how could I miss that?
Personally, I'm not a masochist.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's a game. Just because I'm willing to sacrifice my virtual marine on building a virtual structure doesn't mean I cut myself at night. And marines dying less means skulks dying more. It's a zero-sum game that way.
<!--quoteo(post=1674893:date=Apr 2 2008, 01:55 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Apr 2 2008, 01:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're joking, right?
Are you telling me you lack the ability to think while you're running around (or not running around) the map - and that you can only think when you're standing, facing a stationary building and holding the USE key?
And yes of course you're occupied when you're building - that's my point. You're occupied with holding the USE key. Does your holding the USE key give you or your team any specific advantages that they would not otherwise get, or add to your enjoyment at all?
What you're doing is placing undue importance on a <b>very</b> arbitrary and ineffectual aspect of the game. Just <b>try</b> to tell me you play Natural Selection for the building, with a straight face.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are up times and down times in games. I'm not going to be looking at my map and checking up on my teammates when I'm in combat (the state not the game mode) but I will if I'm building, welding, maybe walking if I think I'm "safe". If you think it's "arbitrary" then you should think about it some more.
Defenseless =!= ambushable. (cool word you made up, thanks) You can be not defenseless and still be ambushable.
<!--quoteo(post=1674893:date=Apr 2 2008, 05:55 AM:name=Harimau)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Harimau @ Apr 2 2008, 05:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674893"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Personally, I'm not a masochist. Just <b>try</b> to tell me you play Natural Selection for the building, with a straight face.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1674917:date=Apr 3 2008, 01:19 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Apr 3 2008, 01:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674917"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a game. Just because I'm willing to sacrifice my virtual marine on building a virtual structure doesn't mean I cut myself at night. And marines dying less means skulks dying more. It's a zero-sum game that way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh of course, I mean you can look at all of those marines that just love nothing more than capping nodes in a game. After all, all marines cap nodes all the time, right? Its not like you get 9/10ths of your team running past a node without capping/not following commander's orders instructing them to go and build something somewhere, am I right or what?
Yep, players just love holding E next to structures and wouldn't play NS if they weren't able to do so.
<!--quoteo(post=1674923:date=Apr 3 2008, 01:31 PM:name=naggy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naggy @ Apr 3 2008, 01:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674923"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->OP: Autobuilding will never be a part of NS2. It removes a core element of the game, not to mention making marines overpowered due to the fact that they can <b>build and shoot things at the same time</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Holding E and facing a structure is a core element of the game? How can you talk about balance this early? Are you playing/testing some secret beta version that I don't know about?
Oh of course, I mean you can look at all of those marines that just love nothing more than capping nodes in a game. After all, all marines cap nodes all the time, right? Its not like you get 9/10ths of your team running past a node without capping/not following commander's orders instructing them to go and build something somewhere, am I right or what?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Okay, how do you make a marine ambushable when he is defending a node/siege and is on alert? Give kharaa cloak as a default, maybe? I'm asking, what are your ideas to make this idea more workable?
<!--quoteo(post=1674946:date=Apr 3 2008, 11:32 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Apr 3 2008, 11:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674946"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yep, players just love holding E next to structures and wouldn't play NS if they weren't able to do so.
Holding E and facing a structure is a core element of the game? How can you talk about balance this early? Are you playing/testing some secret beta version that I don't know about?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1674825:date=Apr 1 2008, 01:40 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Apr 1 2008, 01:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674825"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It changes the gameplay substantially, you're no longer baiting or ambushing since you're able to take marines head on. Maybe that's what you want, but that's not my preference.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A) Vents
B) Leap is cool, wouldn't you agree?
Um.. Yeah? It's an integral part of NS, and I'm sure it will be an integral part of NS2. Due to the fact that you (the player) can build things makes the game feel more realistic, as if to immerse yourself in the atmosphere of the game (not to mention that it's a strategical and balancing part of gameplay). A gorge is defenseless unless it has the right company (OC's/other players) as a building marine is in the same aspect (turrets/other players).
<!--quoteo(post=1674946:date=Apr 3 2008, 10:32 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Apr 3 2008, 10:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1674946"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How can you talk about balance this early? Are you playing/testing some secret beta version that I don't know about?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By 'balance' do you mean '<b>common sense</b>'? You don't have to playtest a stupid idea to know that it won't work.
First sentence is referring to holding the E button being integral to NS.
Second sentence (and the rest of the paragraph) is referring to the concept of building being integral to NS.
- Hate to point out the obvious, but you have a problem with your argument.
Immersion - Is that another vague, undefined concept (similar to "teamwork") which people throw around to add weight to their arguments even though it means nothing by itself?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By 'balance' do you mean '<b>common sense</b>'? You don't have to playtest a stupid idea to know that it won't work.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How do you draw the line between stupid ideas and genius ideas which will actually make the game?
Second sentence (and the rest of the paragraph) is referring to the concept of building being integral to NS.
- Hate to point out the obvious, but you have a problem with your argument.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wtf? Both sentences refer to it. Building = holding E/+use if you for some reason haven't realized already.
<!--quoteo(post=1675024:date=Apr 4 2008, 05:18 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Apr 4 2008, 05:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675024"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Immersion - Is that another vague, undefined concept (similar to "teamwork") which people throw around to add weight to their arguments even though it means nothing by itself?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
im·mer·sion.
3. <b>state of being deeply engaged or involved; absorption.</b>
Building (holding down E) makes you deeply engaged and involved in the game and your surroundings (because you have nothing else to do) which leads to breaks for ambushes to be performed by Kharaa. If you just sit there and build (hold E) without taking your surroundings into account you fail.
<!--quoteo(post=1675024:date=Apr 4 2008, 05:18 AM:name=aNytiMe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Apr 4 2008, 05:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1675024"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How do you draw the line between stupid ideas and genius ideas which will actually make the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Genius ideas come from devs and/or people with something balanced in mind, stupid ideas come from the 'Ideas and Suggestions' forum and/or people who can't comprehend how their 'uber leet' idea will break the game.