international steam pricing
Buzzou
Join Date: 2006-12-14 Member: 59056Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2006-12-14 Member: 59056Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">steam are being dodgy to non-US customers....</div>i recently read an article in a paper (which unfortunately i have missplaced and am desperately trying to lurk) stating that steam are intentionally increasing the pricing for some games to customers outside the USA, with reccent big name titles such as COD4 and the new civilization game having their price doubled.
some titles are being sold in Australia at a whopping 8 times the price available in America, for the exact same product. the article did point out that australian retail store prices for games have always been higher to begin with, and this could be part of the reason why steam is doing this - because we pay more on average for games instore, and they know they can get away with it. the most annoying fact is that the ACCC (australian competition and consumer commission) is powerless to stop this.
THQ have also locked out Australian users from buying their games through steam. This is because the cost of Steam games is in US Dollars, and since the resurgence of the AUD to over 0.90c USD, it is not as profitable to sell over Steam as it is to sell at retail. These decisions have been immensely criticised by disgruntled prospective customers.
a steam group has been created to protest this unfair business model...
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/groups/restofworld" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/groups/restofworld</a>
<!--coloro:#48D1CC--><span style="color:#48D1CC"><!--/coloro-->so my question to the developers is this: will the price for NS2 be universal, regardless on the location of the purchase?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (the only only difference being the conversion of a local currency to US dollars)
does anyone know if this pricing system is something that is agreed between the devoloper and valve, or solely intiiated by valve?
NS2 has a sizable cult following in Australia, with many players eagerly following every podcast and update. same goes for many other countries. it would feel as if the devolopers have turned their backs on our loyalty if we were to pay more than american users for the exact same product.
flayra has stated many times that me wants to make NS2 accessable to the widest range of players possible, my consern is that if the price is significantly more expensive, those with more smaller savings may spend their hard earned money on other cheaper products available, or more well known titles that are roughly the same price.
another concern is that if it is too expensive this could lead to an increase in software piracy, meaning the devolopers miss out on the revenue they deserve.
some titles are being sold in Australia at a whopping 8 times the price available in America, for the exact same product. the article did point out that australian retail store prices for games have always been higher to begin with, and this could be part of the reason why steam is doing this - because we pay more on average for games instore, and they know they can get away with it. the most annoying fact is that the ACCC (australian competition and consumer commission) is powerless to stop this.
THQ have also locked out Australian users from buying their games through steam. This is because the cost of Steam games is in US Dollars, and since the resurgence of the AUD to over 0.90c USD, it is not as profitable to sell over Steam as it is to sell at retail. These decisions have been immensely criticised by disgruntled prospective customers.
a steam group has been created to protest this unfair business model...
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/groups/restofworld" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/groups/restofworld</a>
<!--coloro:#48D1CC--><span style="color:#48D1CC"><!--/coloro-->so my question to the developers is this: will the price for NS2 be universal, regardless on the location of the purchase?<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> (the only only difference being the conversion of a local currency to US dollars)
does anyone know if this pricing system is something that is agreed between the devoloper and valve, or solely intiiated by valve?
NS2 has a sizable cult following in Australia, with many players eagerly following every podcast and update. same goes for many other countries. it would feel as if the devolopers have turned their backs on our loyalty if we were to pay more than american users for the exact same product.
flayra has stated many times that me wants to make NS2 accessable to the widest range of players possible, my consern is that if the price is significantly more expensive, those with more smaller savings may spend their hard earned money on other cheaper products available, or more well known titles that are roughly the same price.
another concern is that if it is too expensive this could lead to an increase in software piracy, meaning the devolopers miss out on the revenue they deserve.
Comments
Really that has no effect on your question though since UWE are the publishers essentially, and it is a very good question.
But that would be naughty.
Since the prices are often controlled more by the company than Steam, we'll have to wait on a UWE comment. However, I do see international taxes and such coming into effect. That might be why Australian releases are also so far behind everyone else's. Sorry, the gaming world doesn't like you very much for some unknown reason. Maybe they like it when you import.
But that would be naughty.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doesn't work, it goes by the billing address of your credit card.
You can, however, have someone overseas gift the game to you over steam, then you wire the money to them.
The only (only) reason games cost more in Australia? Because they damn well know they can get away with charging $110 bucks for an modern, A-grade title, and people will buy it. That's USD$105 people. For a game that would (should) cost AUD$60. Daylight robbery.
Steam needs to develop some more market clout so it can start making the demands. I can't buy Armed Assault over steam at all, though I can see it on the US steam storefront.
--Scythe--
But as for the plans of Unknown Worlds, I'd have to say it is too soon to ask them.
I disagree. If you use the term "Steam" to refer to the 'Steam group' of publishers (as I'm sure was intended), then it is both grammatically and factually correct.
Its just pure greed.
The big retailers in Australia are putting pressure on the distributors to make sure online direct download content is at the same price as what is in retail stores or they potential boycott the publishers.
They know they can't compete with DD and the only way they can stop this for now is with childish threats which for now the publishers need to heed as in store retail moves a lot of stock for them..
But in a few years the tables will turn all these crappy game stores will go the way of music / CD stores <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
In the UK we pay ~40-45 GBP for a brand new game... converted that is ~90 USD.
HOWEVER, the minimum wage in the UK is also ~5.60? GBP. (~11 USD) where as the Minimum wage in the U.S is from 6-8 USD! (3-4 GBP)
Economies work differently around the world. that's one reason why customs are enforced on improted/exported goods.
... LOL.
doing a tiny bit of (perhaps not 100% accurate) research... it looks like the Australian minimum wage is near to 14 AUD (13.7?) ... which is roughly 13 USD...
Your economy is crazy... no wonder you pay alot more for video games... YOU EARN ALOT MORE!!!. wow.
Sure I have to pay the US price for the game, which usually means a small mark up in price as the Canadian dollar only buys 0.97 US dollars. But the US price is generally 5-10 dollars under what is being charged in store in Canada, and I don't have to pay any sales tax at all (12% on any purchase made in my province). Usually it just means I keep the 5-10 dollar discount vs what I would be playing in store.
I consider that pretty good.
Now you're just nit-picking. In colloquial use, using "Steam" to refer to the group of publishers or distributors that sell products on the Steam platform, is perfectly valid.
Swiftspear: I'm not sure what you're saying there. What we're saying is that in Australia, rather than pay a US price (eg. 50-60 USD) adjusted for exchange rates (eg. 55-65 AUD; instead we're paying a far larger sum (eg. 100-110 AUD). So for us, nah that's not pretty good.
Ultimately... I don't see the point in blaming steam. They didn't decide the Australian gaming market was supposed to be crap to the consumer. Someone else made that decision long before. They might have the technical power to change that standard, but they don't necessarily have the legal authority.
These are not the same people. The people who work at Steam do not set the prices of your games. The prices are influenced by the profit margins the publishers set and the tax mark-up due to import tax.
Complaining that 'Steam' is the problem completely misses the point. While it's true that Steam (the organization) does have the power to be selective with who it allows to use its service, to put pressure on its clients to set their prices sensibly; it is not the main offender here by far. It's the publishers you need to complain at, and the most effective way to do that is to boycott their games en masse and let them know the reasons for doing so.
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After doing some research, Australia is a very curious example. You guys are clearly being held to ransom by the publishers on Steam. For game purchases of less than $1000 AUD you pay zero import tax, and your VAT (value added tax) -what you call GST- is only 10%.
<!--QuoteBegin-Australian Taxation Office+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Australian Taxation Office)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All goods (except for tobacco products and alcoholic beverages) may be imported duty and tax free if their value is $1,000 or less.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->This applies to everything except for items of an illegally-dubious nature, such as seeds, pirated material, media content pertaining to scenes of pornography or extreme violence (obvious stuff).
<!--QuoteBegin-Australian Taxation Office+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Australian Taxation Office)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The Australian Customs Service (Customs) collects GST on taxable importations. GST is 10% of the value of a taxable importation.
The value of a taxable importation is the sum of:
* the customs value of the goods
* any customs duty payable
* the amount paid or payable to transport the goods to the port or airport of final destination in Australia (or the place in Australia to which goods are posted)
* the insurance cost for that transport, and
* any wine equalisation tax payable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I cannot see how any of these things could bring your Steam game purchases to almost double the US equivalent. It's daylight robbery!
Can anyone tell me of a site that lists all the publishers scamming the Aussies? Personally, I'd like to stop buying games from them - they're heartless Btards.
Australians earn nearly 2x Americans, so their products cost nearly twice as much.
did anyone read my post?
Australians earn nearly 2x Americans, so their products cost nearly twice as much.
did anyone read my post?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't think much of the extensiveness of your economic assessment. Your post does not take into account the relative local cost of accomodation, food, income tax, council tax, etc. All of these are contributing factors to the average (and relative) personal wealth of an Australian. Do all their products cost double, or is it just electronic products, or just games, or just games sold on Steam, or just games sold on Steam by certain publishers?
E.g. In the UK our pound is much stronger than both the Australian and US dollar, but our house prices are insane. The average deposit on a UK home (average price: £218,112; average annual salary: £23,700!) is £17,000, which is £500 more than an entire year's <i>untaxed</i> salary at the national minimum wage (£5.73/hr). So basically, to get on the property ladder in the UK, you need to be earning enough money after tax and all other expenses to be able to save up £17k (or secure a personal loan). Add to this rising food costs due to inflated fuel costs (the UK imports most of its food and oil prices have doubled from the rates seen in January 2007 and more than quadrupled since 2002) and you get a different picture.
Similarly, many Nordic countries earn relatively more because they have high tax rates to support their impeccable social security systems. In Norway income tax is 28% and value added (goods) tax is 12-24%, versus 22% and 0-17.5% in the UK. Nevertheless, the Norwegians consistently rank highly when compared internationally on their quality of life, whereas the UK is rapidly falling behind.
It's just not sufficient to solely look at exchange rates and average earnings to formulate a comparison.
[Edit] Some figures: (all figures from 2008)
UK average annual wage: £23,700 (after income tax only: £18,486)
Aussie average annual wage: $55,600 (after income tax only: $44,920)
US average annual wage: $31,882 (after income tax only: $26,296)
[Note: US taxes are horrendously difficult to work out because it depends on whether you're married or not and if you file separately or jointly, my god it's just horrible! Plus the IRS site is a nightmare to navigate.]
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Looking at Steam, I chose a popular game, <i>Call of Duty 4</i> and changed my territory forom the UK, to the US, to Australia by changing the <b>?cc=</b> query string on the Steam Store page address (the values "GB", "US" and "AU" seemed to give the right results).
First off we'll begin with the US copy, which was advertised as $49.99 USD before tax. Sales tax in the US generally varies between 5-8%, so I plumped for a healthy 6.5% for my example, giving $53.24 USD.
For a UK credit card, the game is advertised at $69.99 USD. Adding the 17.5% VAT and the 3.5% customs duty for non-EU importation over £7 in value brings us to a grand total of $84.69. [Note: although from an official source, I'm not sure if this customs duty figure is entirely accurate.]
We already know that Australians pay more for games on Steam. In this case they are sold goods with a USD value of $88.50. The good thing is the Aussies don't pay import tax, so it's just sales tax they need to worry about, which is 10% (I think) in this case. This works out as $97.35 USD.
But how does this convert to local conditions? Locally, you'll be paying:
$53.24 USD in the US, enabling you to buy 494 copies on a year's average salary!
£42.37 in the UK, enabling you to buy 560 copies on a year's average salary!
$99.81 AUD in Australia, enabling you to buy 450 copies on a year's average salary!
Fun figures, but inconclusive without proper information about the relative personal wealth of Brits, Yanks and Aussies.
Because we can't parallel import games & consoles (importers get threatened with account termination if they go outside the official supply lines), we're stuck with gouged prices. I'm pretty sure this falls under the definition of an Oligopoly.
I believe most states (all states?) in the US don't charge sales tax for online purchases.
Here are some articles on the subject: (in order of publication, from 2001 to 2005)
<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/04/21/eu_to_turn_us_etailers/" target="_blank">The Register - EU to turn US e-tailers into Euro tax gatherers</a>
<a href="http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/nettax15.shtml" target="_blank">Seattle PI - Longer Internet tax ban sought</a>
<a href="http://www.allbusiness.com/sales/internet-e-commerce/2652-1.html" target="_blank">AllBusiness.com - What Online Sales Are Subject to Sales Tax?</a>
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/01/AR2005070101475.html" target="_blank">Washington Post - States Move Forward on Internet Sales Tax</a>
In Washington State they add the local sales tax to online purchases which is 8.6 percent. =/
There may be no import tax on games coming in, but the planes and boats aren't free. If you don't have an on continent supplier it's not very surprising your getting gouged for shipping costs.
The digital distributors probably can technically easily and massively undercut the AUS gaming market, it's probably that they aren't legally, or diplomatically allowed to (vivendi says "ok, you can distribute games I have the rights to but you have to agree to these terms first or I'll black list you completely")
Economics is all just supply and demand. It's never as simple as "greed". If gaming sales fall in AUS they will either equalize by lowering prices.