Marine Flashlights & Lighting
ChromeAngel
Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 14Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
The announcement of a move of engine opens up some new avenues of thought...
Part of the cool of the film Aliens came form the way that the marines lit their own way wit their armor mounted lights and cameras.
It might be cool/atmospheric to have darker maps and dynamicly projected lights from the marines. From the visors or gun attachments maybe?
Could probably have been done using Source's projected textures technique of course, but full dynamic lighting would be so much cooler.
More commander controlled lighting could be interesting. Say the map has limited power, so the marines can only light say 1/3rd of the rooms at at one time, so the commander has to switch the lighting on and off as his squads move around the map. This would just be main lighting of course, you'd still have the basic submarine emergency lighting for players to get around the rest of the map. In HL switching lights always had an FPS overhead, I wonder of the max engine can do better <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Part of the cool of the film Aliens came form the way that the marines lit their own way wit their armor mounted lights and cameras.
It might be cool/atmospheric to have darker maps and dynamicly projected lights from the marines. From the visors or gun attachments maybe?
Could probably have been done using Source's projected textures technique of course, but full dynamic lighting would be so much cooler.
More commander controlled lighting could be interesting. Say the map has limited power, so the marines can only light say 1/3rd of the rooms at at one time, so the commander has to switch the lighting on and off as his squads move around the map. This would just be main lighting of course, you'd still have the basic submarine emergency lighting for players to get around the rest of the map. In HL switching lights always had an FPS overhead, I wonder of the max engine can do better <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
Comments
1st Marine: "My light just went out?" 2nd Marine: "Huh?!? Run!!!" *Kharaa suddenly appear from the dark!* <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
I really like your idea on light being a limited resource based on the local power grid too.
Also, tracer bullets, that would be interesting too, as a bit of the light show <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
by dark i mean, little lighting, but everything structural can still be made out, whether thats but some clever back lighting, or light beams, emergency lighting or just having that kind of blue 80s movie "At night" look.
Also i think cloaking does a better job, and is much creeper way to hide aliens and structures - perhaps the flashlight doesn't create light, but creates shadows, so you can see the shadows of cloaked aliens comming at you !
doom 3 - great gfx if you can actually see them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
edit :-
i do like the idea of commander controlled lights ( and why not other functions of the space station, but thats for another topic) and having your normal powered lights, and then your back up backup power emergency lights, and then safety spot lights.
But at the same time, it would need to be carefully playtested, and something put in so you didnt have to constantly switch lights, because you don't want the commander to end up like an overpaid lighthouse keeper <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
Commander controlled main lights might encourage more squad based movement too don't you think?
If marines could set up floodlights around areas that have little or no light, that would be pretty sweet.
I wonder if infestation photosyntheses... maybe it grows quicker in well lit areas. Could add another layer of strategic flavour to the of lights. "Don't leave the lights on too long or they'll grow stronger!"
by dark i mean, little lighting, but everything structural can still be made out, whether thats but some clever back lighting, or light beams, emergency lighting or just having that kind of blue 80s movie "At night" look.
Also i think cloaking does a better job, and is much creeper way to hide aliens and structures - perhaps the flashlight doesn't create light, but creates shadows, so you can see the shadows of cloaked aliens comming at you !
doom 3 - great gfx if you can actually see them <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
edit :-
i do like the idea of commander controlled lights ( and why not other functions of the space station, but thats for another topic) and having your normal powered lights, and then your back up backup power emergency lights, and then safety spot lights.
But at the same time, it would need to be carefully playtested, and something put in so you didnt have to constantly switch lights, because you don't want the commander to end up like an overpaid lighthouse keeper <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yar, i agree with all of this.
I was playing HL2 Ep2 the other day, and i raelised the soruce engine had been updated to add shadowing to your flashlight. I shone my lights on zombies for ages, making scary shadows.
Also, i agree, Doom 3 was a very well done game, shame so few people could actually run it decently enough to enjoy it. I was a lucky one <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />
If marines could set up floodlights around areas that have little or no light, that would be pretty sweet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like that idea because some parts of maps are just way too dark,
But I like the floodlight idea, OOOoooo I know throw able Glowsticks. So you can really make a rave room LOL.
What about making that a secondary effect of parasite. It interferes with the lighting. Can always make it a kit or something that has to be placed like a mine. And it just illumine the area.
I think one thing there should be for marines for later in the game is a pack that can ping when you want to. So you dont have to keep asking the comm to ping for you. Maybe its something you setup and use and it has a timer for when it can be used again.
um, you would need a special type of lamps (which imitate natural lightning), because photosynthesis can not take place when all you have is a normal light bulb
(sorry! my bionerdness didn't allow me to live it like this! <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/nerd-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::nerdy::" border="0" alt="nerd-fix.gif" /> )
Flares or glowsticks would be cool! If they could take two or three hits from OC's (which would attack them because they generate heat?) than they could be actually much more useful in game!
I've always thought the gameplay of NS should be more like an Alien movie where its very dark save for extremely limited lighting and the marines would have shoulder flood lights or weapon mounted flash lights. I believe FEAR hit that atmosphere very well with the extremely dark rooms where a flashlight is completely neccesary. Some people may not share the opinion that a dark, almost 'scary' atmosphere would be condusive to good gameplay (which I suppose, is what everyone seems to think is the most important thing nowadays) however; When you and two other marines are walking into a room with one broken light that randomly flashes on, you're going to need to think more about eachother than doing the solo gig. You're going to want to assign a pointman and you're going to perhaps want to enter the room with the classic rotating circle pattern with your flashlights on and panning up and down because if one of your team mates goes down, you may start spraying and praying, and we all know from horror/action movies what happens to the marines when they start spraying and praying in a dark room.
I've always hoped that was the spirit of NS when I first started playing. I was dissapointed at first, but that dissapointed faded as my total hours of playing it increased over time. I think NS2 should have that kind of scary atmosphere to it.
As for another lighting 'mood'... how about a base on emergency power. The marines have to run in and secure it (don't they always!) but because of low power all the lights are shut off until a marine steps into the room. So you'll be checking the corridors as you go with the lights sequentially going on as you walk down the hallway while at the same time turning off when you're a certain distance away from the light source. Just thought it'd be neat.
As for the commander conversation, perhaps there could be a special research that when completed transfers control of the 'level' over to him? So when this happens, doors can be opened/closed/locked/unlocked at will and lights will be turned on. The Kharaa commander perhaps could do the same by 'hacking' in bio-electrically, and the two commanders could face off over the security system!
The spotlight would have an attached generator that would need like 10 seconds to activate the light after it has been deployed.
/edit
oops, has been suggested before right in this thread hehe... but yeah, I think the idea is awesome!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyways I already stated in 2 other threads that the commander already has too much to deal with and adding lighting to his list of commanding things would double his trouble.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, I think the devs talked about a marine res pool where rines can buy stuff on their own. So, it would "just" be a research, it would be up to the rines to actually use it.
--> Portable spotlights.
As a noob mappers, I've made a couple of maps. One I made trying to emulate what some have suggested about dark areas, low light source count, that sort of thing. Basically forcing players to use flashlights.
It was so Alien favored I was almost lynched by my play testers.
Now It's much brighter. I intentionally kept "dark" corners where the light doesn't shine quite as well for Aliens to hide in, plus a much more extensive vent system, and people enjoy it so much more.
Fundamentally the Aliens ambushing people from ceilings, vents, and odd corners works. Making rooms dark so you can't see your enemy is bad. Let the Aliens hide easily, but once they engage they should be vulnerable. Kill quick, or be killed. Running blindly down a hallway should be hard and you should feel vulnerable.
Also, darker corridors also do not hurt, as long as all is balanced. (i.e. dark corridors give rines a tactical advantage while having a disadvantage in combat)
Of course you cannot do a complete dark map.
It was so Alien favored I was almost lynched by my play testers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that's because the NS1 flashlight sucks. The hope is that NS2 has a better lighting system that allows for that kind of stuff.
but anyone back on topic. Why not have 2 different settings, 1 directional the second lights up an area. But is less intense. But the directional can cause alien blindness (kinda like FB from CS) but only in dark rooms
p.s. how well does strobe lighting work in video games? Ive never seen it done well that i can remember but strobe lighting is even cooler than glow sticks. In the real world, strobe can give the impression that things are happening slower because you get in effect a lower frame rate or broken frame rate through your eyes, what would this be like in a game, or would it just suck?
p.s. how well does strobe lighting work in video games? Ive never seen it done well that i can remember but strobe lighting is even cooler than glow sticks. In the real world, strobe can give the impression that things are happening slower because you get in effect a lower frame rate or broken frame rate through your eyes, what would this be like in a game, or would it just suck?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know if its a good idea to make the lighting comm controlled. It easily becomes a dull task which doesn't require much of thinking. You'd just keep lighting the rooms for your marines instead of trying to figure out what the aliens are doing, which marines need some kind of supply and so on. Even know the comms seem to have too much to do for a public game and yet the comming could use a lot more of micro/whatever for competetive gaming. Keeping the comm occupied is good, but I think it could use always some decisionmaking too.
I'd call it a headache while trying to aim a skulk at strobe lighting. At least a little warping on the skulks in normal lightning makes you feel ill and tired after a while.
lol... define "after a while".
Strobe lighting would a nice effect for when the only source of light is the machine gun fire.
Aside from that lighting should be something marines and aliens have way of having to fight for.
*infestation darkens areas with presence.
*Marine equipment or buildings (flares, flashlights, flood lights, area)
*Areas of whole lighting depends on power supply prefabs that alien can bite to disable and marines weld to repair. Map designer has full control of his feature.
Maps should be varied. I welcome the idea of very naturally bright maps with few dark areas (very lighting is not as big an issue) as well as very very dark maps (where the lighting is an essential element to control for each team.
I think destroyable lights on a map that can be welded is a nice idea, i also think having marine pickupable lights, floodlights, flares, is another good idea. On dark maps, at the marine spawn there could be a locker with floodlights and flares. A marine can carry one flood and 2 flares, the locker regens the missing flares and floods after X seconds/minutes. The flood lights can be put down in 2 seconds, the flares are like grenades, they can be lit and hel like the grenade, but if you hold them, they wont go out till you throw them and wait the time they last, this is good to help a squad, but you cant defend yourself, right click just drops them, not roll, and left click would throw them. If anything steps on a flare, they get hurt, the flare does decent damage at whatever it hits, if it be a skulk, owy for him, but it drops where it hits. The flood lights can be as easily destroyed as normal room lights, 1 skulk bite. Only a certain amount of each can be placed at a time, so they dont respawn if limit reached. flares don't last forever, but cant be destoyed, floods last forever, unless destroyed.
The commander should have control over some factors of the map, for one, lighting of operational rooms, Maybe somewhere on the map, a control line was cut, so rooms ACE can't be controled in ANY way. Welding the line together would allow him to, and the aliens can redeweld the line. The comm could do ther stuff like blastdoors than can be sestroyed but that another topic to be made.
Having it only sectored into 4 sections of map, ehh, no. Not every room should have to be turned on, connect some rooms, maybe some rooms the marine has to flip the switch to the power box.
Strobes could be half damaged HEAVY DUTY Lights, so if a marine hates the light so much, he can shoot it, and weld it later. A directional light would be nice for range, but unrealistic, but ehh, its good, but only good if u add the HL2 light, but not as bright.