Phase Module
chiss
Join Date: 2008-06-05 Member: 64395Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2008-06-05 Member: 64395Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">A legitimate implementation of the Phase Suit</div>RE: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=103337" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=103337</a>
The only way i could see this phase suit being viable, is if it had a capacitor that needed to charge (took about.... 3 minutes). Once it is charged, the marine has the ability to teleport back to an IP. Essentially it would work like beacon, but it would actually teleport the marine back to their base (with a 2 second delay) onto an IP. This would not disrupt the current reinforcement for that IP. Upon activation, a blue light would light up and it would let out a whirring sound, letting nearby marines know that you are retreating, and also allowing aliens to know, so they can choose to try to rush the evacuating marine, or change target to someone that will be left for dead.
You may be thinking, "What a waste of resources, for a commander to give marines a suit that allows them to teleport back to base... Why wouldnt i just beacon"
This would allow marines to instantly warp out of combat, to avoid losing a precious HMG, GL or Shotgun. Or to head back to base after going to build a far away resource node. Or just to quickly get back to base to defend, without the use of a beacon. However, with the two second delay, it would not just allow marines to disappear as a skulk got close. It would be the Rambo's suit of love, turning Rambo's who lose guns into Rambo's who get kills and keep guns.
I think this phase module should be upgraded from the observatory, and dropped within the range of an observatory. Allowing for earlier upgrades than JP or HA, costing 30 to upgrade, and 10 each. This would make giving guns out more viable in early game, as marines would most certainly be able to retain them for a while, unless the aliens do a smart ambush. It would also give the marines an earlier "armor" type, than the endgame JP or HA.
I think it should just be a glowing blue attachment on the marines back on top of standard armor, like a JP.
This would NOT be stackable with JP or HA.
Thoughts <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />?
The only way i could see this phase suit being viable, is if it had a capacitor that needed to charge (took about.... 3 minutes). Once it is charged, the marine has the ability to teleport back to an IP. Essentially it would work like beacon, but it would actually teleport the marine back to their base (with a 2 second delay) onto an IP. This would not disrupt the current reinforcement for that IP. Upon activation, a blue light would light up and it would let out a whirring sound, letting nearby marines know that you are retreating, and also allowing aliens to know, so they can choose to try to rush the evacuating marine, or change target to someone that will be left for dead.
You may be thinking, "What a waste of resources, for a commander to give marines a suit that allows them to teleport back to base... Why wouldnt i just beacon"
This would allow marines to instantly warp out of combat, to avoid losing a precious HMG, GL or Shotgun. Or to head back to base after going to build a far away resource node. Or just to quickly get back to base to defend, without the use of a beacon. However, with the two second delay, it would not just allow marines to disappear as a skulk got close. It would be the Rambo's suit of love, turning Rambo's who lose guns into Rambo's who get kills and keep guns.
I think this phase module should be upgraded from the observatory, and dropped within the range of an observatory. Allowing for earlier upgrades than JP or HA, costing 30 to upgrade, and 10 each. This would make giving guns out more viable in early game, as marines would most certainly be able to retain them for a while, unless the aliens do a smart ambush. It would also give the marines an earlier "armor" type, than the endgame JP or HA.
I think it should just be a glowing blue attachment on the marines back on top of standard armor, like a JP.
This would NOT be stackable with JP or HA.
Thoughts <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />?
Comments
I'm kinda a fan. I think it could help people get weapons out sooner and such.
My biggest issue is then you promote item whoring. One particularly good player gets the good gun and the phase module and just retreats when the going gets rough to keep their weapon. This promotes scoring whoring, making sure you don't die, but still have all the good equipment so you can keep raking in kills. I really liked the feature where Marines would drop their weapons and others could try and recover them to keep up the fight.
Anyways, mixed feelings, but a very interesting idea.
How about it allowing you to reinforce into the battle? i.e. wearing it would additionally involve acquiring a tool (functionally like a welder - visually wrist watch?), that would allow you to set the phasing mechanism to your current location (click left mouse button once and it is set, second time to teleport you to that place) or to teleport you to an IP with the secondary fire.
That would allow you to teleport to base, buy a weapon (if the buy zone will be within the armory), take more ammo/medpacks, defend the base etc. and get back to the place from where you teleported in the first place. It would be good that you can not just teleport wherever you like, only to the place where you managed to get on foot already and the base.
EDIT:
<!--QuoteBegin-"locallyunscene"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("locallyunscene")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Guns are droppable and hence able to be picked up. It would really only be useful for HA/JP/EXO.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know if I got it right - is Exoskeleton a new type of armor coming in NS2 or is it a replacement for HA? I got the impression that it is the latter.
Also - in terms of what I suggested above. If phase armor would be chage into a "phase tool", than it could be more usefull for EXO/JP.
I don't know if I got it right - is Exoskeleton a new type of armor coming in NS2 or is it a replacement for HA? I got the impression that it is the latter.
Also - in terms of what I suggested above. If phase armor would be chage into a "phase tool", than it could be more usefull for EXO/JP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They mentioned it as a replacement, but we don't know how different/similar it will be compared to heavy armor. I think that there's a chance it will be an addition rather than a replacement.
What if you didn't just teleport back to base, but to some other waypoint you set up elsewhere that could be destroyed (and would have to be re-bought).
Then you could still do the warping spawncamp trick, it would just be a lot harder.
EDIT: Forgot about the cooldown timer- why would you bother with this? The player is losing map control by activating the upgrade they spent their own resources on, haven't you hurt them enough? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" />
Final outcome- marines just lost the TF, the sieges and the equipment of the remaining marines. The aliens just recieved res for killing the marines and saved there hive. Comm is mad.
a couple wounded and low on ammo marines phase back to base, buys hmgs for res they managed to earned so far for fighting off the first skulks defending the the hive and phase back to the hive just in time to save their fellow marines and empty a clip or two at the onos which die with a painful groan
the comm is so happy that he makes a ammo and candy-spam ;p
in other words - it all depends on the situation and players, the same story that you wrote applies to phase gates, since they also can be used by the players to escape the battlefield!
+1
Well, item whoring has and always will be an issue. I for one am not a fan of "let players buy what they want, when they want" thing. I think the commander should have full control over what and what marines buy, but also be able to be less specific. For example the commander could deposit *100 res for HMG or SG* or *50 res for anything* or *20 res for welders only*.
Anyway - as i just said above, score whoring will always be an issue, and i dont really think its a problem, as long as that person still realises they are a part of a team. From experience, the players at the top of the list with the uber scores are usually the ones making the team win, they arent just roaming around aimlessly.
Also, dont think this is a definate escape, two seconds is a long time in the world of NS... Marines will still die a lot, and people with this suit will have to play it carefully to keep it.
<!--quoteo(post=1683591:date=Jul 16 2008, 11:54 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jul 16 2008, 11:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1683591"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the concept is sound, but I don't like it for the following reasons.<ul><li>It's a marine version of redemption, so not only is it increasing similarity, but it also suffers from the same problem as redemption<ul><li>It takes players out of combat passively, which feels cheap and boring</li></ul></li><li> It also duplicates beacon to an extent even if it is different. </li><li> Guns are droppable and hence able to be picked up. It would really only be useful for HA/JP/EXO.</li></ul>The bit about redemption is my personal opinion, so take it or leave it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I dont think you understand my point.
This is NOT passive. The marine would push a key on their keyboard when they want to teleport back to base. Then they would have to wait TWO seconds.
It is similar to beacon in a way, but its also very different. You have to have spent 10 resources, you have to have the suit, you have to be alive, it has to be charged.
I agree though, i dislike redemption. Seeing an onos just disappear (by luck) is a real lame thing.
My final point on this argument though; it would be very easy to kill someone in one of these suits. The player with the suit would have to be very careful.
<!--quoteo(post=1683599:date=Jul 17 2008, 12:29 AM:name=La Chupacabra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(La Chupacabra @ Jul 17 2008, 12:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1683599"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In NS2 there will be a buy menu, so it would be up to the marine if he would like to buy it or not. It doesn't sound overpowered as the original idea, but I'm not sure whether I would spend my res as a marine for such a 'redemption-on-demand' thing. If it would be expensive, then I would rather die and buy another shotty, and if it will be cheap than every marine in mid game would have one, which on the other hand would be quite irritating on the alien side.
How about it allowing you to reinforce into the battle? i.e. wearing it would additionally involve acquiring a tool (functionally like a welder - visually wrist watch?), that would allow you to set the phasing mechanism to your current location (click left mouse button once and it is set, second time to teleport you to that place) or to teleport you to an IP with the secondary fire.
That would allow you to teleport to base, buy a weapon (if the buy zone will be within the armory), take more ammo/medpacks, defend the base etc. and get back to the place from where you teleported in the first place. It would be good that you can not just teleport wherever you like, only to the place where you managed to get on foot already and the base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it is well worth the 10 resources. I would rather escape death 10 times with my shotgun than get a shotgun and die twice.
<!--quoteo(post=1683619:date=Jul 17 2008, 02:26 AM:name=Radix)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Radix @ Jul 17 2008, 02:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1683619"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Feels cheap to me.
What if you didn't just teleport back to base, but to some other waypoint you set up elsewhere that could be destroyed (and would have to be re-bought).
Then you could still do the warping spawncamp trick, it would just be a lot harder.
EDIT: Forgot about the cooldown timer- why would you bother with this? The player is losing map control by activating the upgrade they spent their own resources on, haven't you hurt them enough? <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/marine.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::marine::" border="0" alt="marine.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As i stated in the OP, you will teleport onto a random IP. Therefor, i dont see how you could possibly do a warping spawncamp trick.... As you have to be alive to use it.... AND you'd have to have IPs in the place youre trying to spawn camp... And i think by the time you have IPs in the enemy hive, you've won...
<!--quoteo(post=1683631:date=Jul 17 2008, 03:24 AM:name=BlackHawk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlackHawk @ Jul 17 2008, 03:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1683631"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can see it now, marines are sieging a hive and winning, when a onos, 1 onos comes out to attack the marines. the marines with the phase suit freak out and jump back to base for fear of being devoured. that leaves just a few marines left to defend siege (the one's without the phase suit and the one's with the phase suit that decided to risk being eaten for the sake of the team).
Final outcome- marines just lost the TF, the sieges and the equipment of the remaining marines. The aliens just recieved res for killing the marines and saved there hive. Comm is mad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well yes, people suck. But how is that any different in terms of *THE NEWBS RUINED IT* to trying to seige a hive, and newbs not phasing to where you tell them, or just lacking the ability to aim, and the hive doesnt die as a result?
You could use that *idiots* argument for ANYTHING in NS.
Comm drops res, idiot doesnt build it. Resource node shouldnt be included?
Comm drops HA train, idiots run off solo and die. HA shouldnt be included?
You get my point. NS is a competitive game, dont put things down because you think people who dont know how to play will ###### up with it.
Well the way you described it with a warm up seems passive, but you're right that it wouldn't have to be. Still, I think I'd be a stretch to say it takes any skill to use, and it does take you out of the combat. Maybe instead of teleporting you away from the battle it should be an instant squad respawn. You'd lose your armor, but have a chance to reclaim your gun, and get back in the fight easier.
Passive: Something that happens without any player input. Such as an alien slowly healing with regeneration. Energy charging in an Observatory.
In no way is this passive. I still think you're missing the point.
And sure, it wouldnt take a lot of skill, but it would require some thoughtful play and tactics, to be sure you have two seconds to teleport out. But the main point is, it teleports you out of the battle, its not like you are killing anything.
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/lerk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::lerk::" border="0" alt="lerk.gif" />
Also - in terms of what I suggested above. If phase armor would be chage into a "phase tool", than it could be more usefull for EXO/JP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm pretty sure it's a replacement, and not just a name-change, but will also work differently.
locally: isn't redemp auto though? whereas the phase suit is activatable.
locally: isn't redemp auto though? whereas the phase suit is activatable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, but I don't really consider pushing a button once every few minutes "active". It may not be 100% passive, but it's more passive than active. That's why I suggested the instant squad respawn. It's the same kind of idea except it puts you right back in the battle.
Marine: you make the decision to get the ###### out of there.
Alien: you need to kill that marine in 2 seconds.
Marine: you make the decision to get the ###### out of there.
Alien: you need to kill that marine in 2 seconds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is the same decision process as redemption, except once every three minutes when deciding to engage, you have a free beacon. It's not an over/underpowered ability, it's just not fun.
Marine: you make the decision to get the ###### out of there.
Alien: you need to kill that marine in 2 seconds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yarr! Or alternatively, I'll hide, make sure i dont die.
As regards the beacon thing, since you say it's not over- or under-powered, does it matter, then?
This ability is pretty much the same as dying.
As regards the beacon thing, since you say it's not over- or under-powered, does it matter, then?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Over or under powered generally refers to something being too ###### or too good. This suit would be very useful, but it would be neither ###### nor too good.
<!--quoteo(post=1683837:date=Jul 18 2008, 11:44 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(locallyunscene @ Jul 18 2008, 11:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1683837"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This ability is pretty much the same as dying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You keep your guns.
You dont take up the spawn que.
You frustrate an alien :].
btw chiss, the OP/UP comment was made to locally. basically what I was saying was that Beacon is just as fun or unfun as this Phase Module would be, and since locally doesn't think it's overpowered or underpowered, then it's a non-issue.
Thanks for reading!
Otherwise I think this is a great idea, but maybe add something that will prevent giving the marines too much power. Maybe little computers they have to be near on the map or the commander has to accept it. That bring back another problem i've been thinking alot about lately... I've been reading alot of ideas on here and most of them relate to the commander. In NS1 the commander has a lot of crap to deal with already. Adding all this stuff would make the commander less enjoyable to play. I don't like commanding because it's hard and i need to concentrate really hard to lead my team to victory. Plus most of the time i don't ever get a good team that knows what to do.
Ok I'm gonna stop rambling on now... lol
Otherwise I think this is a great idea, but maybe add something that will prevent giving the marines too much power. Maybe little computers they have to be near on the map or the commander has to accept it. That bring back another problem i've been thinking alot about lately... I've been reading alot of ideas on here and most of them relate to the commander. In NS1 the commander has a lot of crap to deal with already. Adding all this stuff would make the commander less enjoyable to play. I don't like commanding because it's hard and i need to concentrate really hard to lead my team to victory. Plus most of the time i don't ever get a good team that knows what to do.
Ok I'm gonna stop rambling on now... lol<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Idiots can always do something stupid. Like taking guns and throwing them down a hole. Getting a jetpack and flying to some random place and dying.
Most of all, idiots just dont understand the game and dont really help - i think idiots should be a major factor in the making of a game.
I was very sad to hear that marines will get to choose what weapons they get, and when.... and this is purely to stop the whole idiodic "OMG I DONT WANT A HMG I WANT A SG! GIVE ME A SG". Whereas they should just shut up and listen to the commanders next order.
Instead of teleporting back to base, the suit would teleport the marine a short distance away (within a line of sight) with the marines gun pointed at where they used to be (and very likely directly at the alien).
The random teleport would be finicky, no doubt, but the ability to teleport across the room and then pretty much immediately open fire on what was just about to chew your face off could be VERY convenient. Then, you need to visit something to recharge the pack for another teleport.
1: It should be somewhere within line of sight.
2: The marine should have a clear shot at where he just was (and be pointed at it).
3: It should be a minimum distance away from where he was.
So for example, if the marine in in a pit, it might land him on the edge of the pit, but only in places he could see the spot in the pit he came from. If the marine is in a corridor, it jumps him ahead or back a ways. If the marine is in a TIGHT corridor, or a vent... well, that would either be fairly predictable, or maybe have it not work if the pack can't find anyplace to send you. Teleporting in a room would just send you to a spot in the room, or a visible section of corridor. And it's entirely possible that you might end up in a worse position by doing it.
<u>MAYBE</u> (maybe not) have the pack telefrag? Either telefrag everyone, or maybe just telefrag aliens only (totally random and due to luck, maybe not fatal on tougher aliens).