Visual immersion & consistency
Faskalia
Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation
Wechsellichtzeichenanlage Join Date: 2004-09-12 Member: 31651Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">A link-portal</div>Okay, so I decided to go through all 35 pages of NS2-I&S and pick out those ideas, that deal with visual immersion and consistency and sort them.
Currently this thread will mainly serve as a reminder for myself and an explanation, why visual immersion and consistency is important to games and why NS2 can achieve nearly perfect consistency.
What is immersion?
Well, you can either read the wikepedia article on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_(virtual_reality)" target="_blank">immersion</a> or you can trust my simple definition. Immersion measures, how well you can get lost in a virtual reality. Be it a book, movie or a video game.
What is consistency?
Again, I am linking the wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency" target="_blank">article.</a> Unfortunately I kinda lack a simple definition here.
Examples from the gaming world (especially FPS games):
Player birth and death:
-In order to participate in a game a player avatar has to somehow enter the game world.
-There are a few common concepts:
--Random Spawning:
---The player just appears out of thin air, nearly anywhere on the map. This of course means that he can spawn right in front of another player, or even worse spawn directly into an explosion. Players appearing out of thin air, without good explanation breaks consistency. (Quake/UT)
--Area Spawning:
---Often found in team based games. Every team has a fixed starting location and with the help of mappers, those locations are inaccesible to the other team. This means that you will never have enemies spawning in your fov, but teammates still do, if you hang around your spawn area. (DOD)
--Round Spawning:
---Games are played as rounds and everyone has just 1 live. At the beginning of a round everyone spawns at once. This means, that cocistency is only broken at roundstart. (CS)
Weapons and powerups:
-Players need tools to kill and to treat their wounds.
-2 Basic concepts:
--Item pickups:
---Items spawn in intervalls and can be picked up by the player.
--Item loadout:
---Players select what tools they want to spawn with, by choosing a certain loadout or player class. (R6)
Maps:
Whats happens, when you try to drive over a tree with a tank, or throw a grenade near a wooden crate?
Most games have nearly indestructible environments. With usually only a few selected items to be destructible. A notible exeption would be red faction.
Alot problems arise from indestructible environments, consistency wise. When I use 3-4 grenades to flush a sniper out of his hideout , he can simply return to it later, cause the grenades did not render the hideout unusable. Most games also dont offer an explanation, why their maps are static.
Okay, so there are at least 3 major obstacles, that game designers have to overcome, if they want consistency. But why has NS2 the perfect requirements to be completely consistent? The answer is simple: The NS universe has invented magic. Nanites & Bacteria to be more exact.
Lets have a look at NS (not NS2) and write down where it lacks consistency/immersion:
-Infestation: Infestation is static, which means that even if there is no hive in CC, there will still be infestation.
--Dynamic infestation will solve this problem.
-Ladders: Ladder climbing animations are horrible, because the models are just glued to the ladder and then they can also rotate.
--Possible fix: Ramps and anti-grav lifts, lifts in general, moving platforms etc. Decent climbing animations for marines should be possible. (Rainbow 6 ladder climbign as reference)
-Damage indicator: An onos with 1 HP looks like one with FULL HP.
--Possible fix: Tusks and armor paltes can break, skin can be damaged, even parts of the body can be bitten/shot off. Nanites and Bacteria can slowly repeair the sustained damage, as the players health regenerates.
-Buildings appear out of thin air.
--Possible fix: Chambers and buildings will slowly errect from the nanogrid/bacteria.
-Weapons have little to no visual impact on the environment.
--Possible fix: Bullets can penetrate the ships outer hull, decompression happens for 3-4 seconds, until the nanogrid repairs the hull damage again. Explosives could even tear --holes into walls and the nangrid would slowly repair those holes.
-Players that disconnect disappear into thin air. Same for dead players and items that are past their lifespan.
--Possible fix: The player gets disassembled by the nanogrid. Same goes of course for left behind weapons, ammo packs etc.
-Players are not able to see their own feet/body when looking down. This mainly concerns marines, but also aliens to a certain extent.
--Possible fix: Introduce better view models
-Player POV is borked. HA marines have their eyes located on their chest and skulks have their eyes inside their mouth.
--Introduce a POV that matches the player model.
-Players turn instantly. This one is most noticeable when observing an onos. Because the turn rate is not fixed, it is possible for an onos to turn 180 in the blink of an eye.
--Possible fix: Third person view for onos and then detach the players POV from the onos model. The player can turn his POV freely and the onos will follow at a fixed turn rate.
--It could also be possible to remove strafing from the onos and instead have strafe_left and strafe_right turn the onos body at a fixed rate. The mouse would be used to turn --the onos head.
-Players clip into each other and into the environment:
--Possible fix: Bigger boxes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> (Or complete rehaul to avoid clipping)
-Even an Onos can be blocked by a non moving skulk.
--Possible fix: Introduce player push. Heavier lifeforms can always push lighter lifeforms around. Onos>HA>Fade>LA=JP>gorge>lerk=skulk. Lifeforms of the same weight would be slightly pushing each other, to avoid collision, but also to avoid one skulk blocking a vent for 3 other skulks.
-Attacks just deal damage. There is no felt impact.
--Possible fix: If an Onos charges a marine, the marine should fling around. If a skulk leaps at a marine from behind that marine should fall over. Compare with UT3s ragdolls, when falling too far or being hit by a jeep etc.
-Sound always generates a cylindrical field. This means that something 800 units below you, is louder than something 8 units in front of you.
--Possible fix: Introduce spherical sound, or even better volumetric sound
-Siege Cannons also have a cylindrical range instead of a spherical.
--Possible fix: Obvious <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
-Commander can drop items on infestation.
-- Possible fix: DI will take care of this.
-Players just appear out of thin air at the beginning of a round.
--Possible fix: Marines need a decent teleportation effect, same for the CC. Aliens would grow from bacteria.
-Marine IP rebirth is weak!
--Needs good teleportation/assembly effect. Assembly should be preferred, cause it means that the IP can slowly build a player during his respawn time.
-Alien Hive rebirth is pathetic!
--Needs good assembly effect. The hive either lays an egg, which slowly transforms into a skulk, or skulk is directly assembled from bacteria.
-Redemption working as some kind of teleportation makes no "sense".
--Possible fix: A redeemed aliens should die, and then "terminator like" dissolve, then flow back to the hive and there it should assemble again.
-There is no way to tell, whether an aliens has a certain upgrade, just from looking at its model. Same for marines, that are holding a pistol. Where did he pack that HMG?
--Possible fix: Every piece of equipment, every alien trait should be spotable from just looking at the marine/alien model. (except for cloak. You should not be able to spot that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) See below for some detail.
-Aliens turning into eggs midair and then turning back looks strange.
--Evolving traits (carapace, cele etc) should work on the fly. No turning back into an egg etc. Instead you slowly grow additional armor plates, or sharper claws, or your skin slowly changes to something translucent, or your legs become stronger/bigger/better etc.
-Why can mariens put on their heavy armor in a split second?
--Possible fix: Instead of items, the commander drops "orbs" or. When you walk over such an orb, the corresponding item automatically starts to assemble in your hands. HA would slowly grow around you, till you are fully encase etc.
-Aliens evolving into other lifeforms is weak.
--Possible fix: Alien player would have to stand still. Then he selects evolve and then he would slowly turn into the egg like cocoon, which would then grow and finally break, releasing the onos/fade/gorge, whatever. The most important thing would the the growth, so that a small egg does not hatch an onos 10 times as big.
Okay, getting late over here. I will continue this thread tomorrow. Just a quick note: Imagine the bacteria/nano-grid assembling/disassembling stuff like the way mosnters died in doom3. This is what I have in mind (blue effect for nanites and green/brown effect for bacteria)
Currently this thread will mainly serve as a reminder for myself and an explanation, why visual immersion and consistency is important to games and why NS2 can achieve nearly perfect consistency.
What is immersion?
Well, you can either read the wikepedia article on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_(virtual_reality)" target="_blank">immersion</a> or you can trust my simple definition. Immersion measures, how well you can get lost in a virtual reality. Be it a book, movie or a video game.
What is consistency?
Again, I am linking the wikipedia <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consistency" target="_blank">article.</a> Unfortunately I kinda lack a simple definition here.
Examples from the gaming world (especially FPS games):
Player birth and death:
-In order to participate in a game a player avatar has to somehow enter the game world.
-There are a few common concepts:
--Random Spawning:
---The player just appears out of thin air, nearly anywhere on the map. This of course means that he can spawn right in front of another player, or even worse spawn directly into an explosion. Players appearing out of thin air, without good explanation breaks consistency. (Quake/UT)
--Area Spawning:
---Often found in team based games. Every team has a fixed starting location and with the help of mappers, those locations are inaccesible to the other team. This means that you will never have enemies spawning in your fov, but teammates still do, if you hang around your spawn area. (DOD)
--Round Spawning:
---Games are played as rounds and everyone has just 1 live. At the beginning of a round everyone spawns at once. This means, that cocistency is only broken at roundstart. (CS)
Weapons and powerups:
-Players need tools to kill and to treat their wounds.
-2 Basic concepts:
--Item pickups:
---Items spawn in intervalls and can be picked up by the player.
--Item loadout:
---Players select what tools they want to spawn with, by choosing a certain loadout or player class. (R6)
Maps:
Whats happens, when you try to drive over a tree with a tank, or throw a grenade near a wooden crate?
Most games have nearly indestructible environments. With usually only a few selected items to be destructible. A notible exeption would be red faction.
Alot problems arise from indestructible environments, consistency wise. When I use 3-4 grenades to flush a sniper out of his hideout , he can simply return to it later, cause the grenades did not render the hideout unusable. Most games also dont offer an explanation, why their maps are static.
Okay, so there are at least 3 major obstacles, that game designers have to overcome, if they want consistency. But why has NS2 the perfect requirements to be completely consistent? The answer is simple: The NS universe has invented magic. Nanites & Bacteria to be more exact.
Lets have a look at NS (not NS2) and write down where it lacks consistency/immersion:
-Infestation: Infestation is static, which means that even if there is no hive in CC, there will still be infestation.
--Dynamic infestation will solve this problem.
-Ladders: Ladder climbing animations are horrible, because the models are just glued to the ladder and then they can also rotate.
--Possible fix: Ramps and anti-grav lifts, lifts in general, moving platforms etc. Decent climbing animations for marines should be possible. (Rainbow 6 ladder climbign as reference)
-Damage indicator: An onos with 1 HP looks like one with FULL HP.
--Possible fix: Tusks and armor paltes can break, skin can be damaged, even parts of the body can be bitten/shot off. Nanites and Bacteria can slowly repeair the sustained damage, as the players health regenerates.
-Buildings appear out of thin air.
--Possible fix: Chambers and buildings will slowly errect from the nanogrid/bacteria.
-Weapons have little to no visual impact on the environment.
--Possible fix: Bullets can penetrate the ships outer hull, decompression happens for 3-4 seconds, until the nanogrid repairs the hull damage again. Explosives could even tear --holes into walls and the nangrid would slowly repair those holes.
-Players that disconnect disappear into thin air. Same for dead players and items that are past their lifespan.
--Possible fix: The player gets disassembled by the nanogrid. Same goes of course for left behind weapons, ammo packs etc.
-Players are not able to see their own feet/body when looking down. This mainly concerns marines, but also aliens to a certain extent.
--Possible fix: Introduce better view models
-Player POV is borked. HA marines have their eyes located on their chest and skulks have their eyes inside their mouth.
--Introduce a POV that matches the player model.
-Players turn instantly. This one is most noticeable when observing an onos. Because the turn rate is not fixed, it is possible for an onos to turn 180 in the blink of an eye.
--Possible fix: Third person view for onos and then detach the players POV from the onos model. The player can turn his POV freely and the onos will follow at a fixed turn rate.
--It could also be possible to remove strafing from the onos and instead have strafe_left and strafe_right turn the onos body at a fixed rate. The mouse would be used to turn --the onos head.
-Players clip into each other and into the environment:
--Possible fix: Bigger boxes <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" /> (Or complete rehaul to avoid clipping)
-Even an Onos can be blocked by a non moving skulk.
--Possible fix: Introduce player push. Heavier lifeforms can always push lighter lifeforms around. Onos>HA>Fade>LA=JP>gorge>lerk=skulk. Lifeforms of the same weight would be slightly pushing each other, to avoid collision, but also to avoid one skulk blocking a vent for 3 other skulks.
-Attacks just deal damage. There is no felt impact.
--Possible fix: If an Onos charges a marine, the marine should fling around. If a skulk leaps at a marine from behind that marine should fall over. Compare with UT3s ragdolls, when falling too far or being hit by a jeep etc.
-Sound always generates a cylindrical field. This means that something 800 units below you, is louder than something 8 units in front of you.
--Possible fix: Introduce spherical sound, or even better volumetric sound
-Siege Cannons also have a cylindrical range instead of a spherical.
--Possible fix: Obvious <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
-Commander can drop items on infestation.
-- Possible fix: DI will take care of this.
-Players just appear out of thin air at the beginning of a round.
--Possible fix: Marines need a decent teleportation effect, same for the CC. Aliens would grow from bacteria.
-Marine IP rebirth is weak!
--Needs good teleportation/assembly effect. Assembly should be preferred, cause it means that the IP can slowly build a player during his respawn time.
-Alien Hive rebirth is pathetic!
--Needs good assembly effect. The hive either lays an egg, which slowly transforms into a skulk, or skulk is directly assembled from bacteria.
-Redemption working as some kind of teleportation makes no "sense".
--Possible fix: A redeemed aliens should die, and then "terminator like" dissolve, then flow back to the hive and there it should assemble again.
-There is no way to tell, whether an aliens has a certain upgrade, just from looking at its model. Same for marines, that are holding a pistol. Where did he pack that HMG?
--Possible fix: Every piece of equipment, every alien trait should be spotable from just looking at the marine/alien model. (except for cloak. You should not be able to spot that <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />) See below for some detail.
-Aliens turning into eggs midair and then turning back looks strange.
--Evolving traits (carapace, cele etc) should work on the fly. No turning back into an egg etc. Instead you slowly grow additional armor plates, or sharper claws, or your skin slowly changes to something translucent, or your legs become stronger/bigger/better etc.
-Why can mariens put on their heavy armor in a split second?
--Possible fix: Instead of items, the commander drops "orbs" or. When you walk over such an orb, the corresponding item automatically starts to assemble in your hands. HA would slowly grow around you, till you are fully encase etc.
-Aliens evolving into other lifeforms is weak.
--Possible fix: Alien player would have to stand still. Then he selects evolve and then he would slowly turn into the egg like cocoon, which would then grow and finally break, releasing the onos/fade/gorge, whatever. The most important thing would the the growth, so that a small egg does not hatch an onos 10 times as big.
Okay, getting late over here. I will continue this thread tomorrow. Just a quick note: Imagine the bacteria/nano-grid assembling/disassembling stuff like the way mosnters died in doom3. This is what I have in mind (blue effect for nanites and green/brown effect for bacteria)
Comments
to add:
Players can see their own body
I was playing portal yesterday and looked down and was shocked to find i had arms, torso or even feet!
Might be a good idea to get some screenshots of all of this and chuck this in the "its done better in" sticky
Also Tribe II like avatars would be cool :)
Players can see their own body<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Still havent seen this done well yet.
2 words: Mirror's Edge.
Anyways, the only idea the stuck out as bad is instant turning. In order to keep this a quick action packed game, I dislike constrictions on my movement or losing accuracy for moving. If I wanted that, I'd play a "realistic combat" game with no corsshairs, iron sights, peaking around cover, no HUD, and one-shot kills. Sounds a lot like Insurgency. We are also not in tanks that have a maximum rotation speed. Granted it breaks immersion a little to see a giant onos turn on a dime, but still.
Basically, don't overload with realism if it's gonna bog down the gameplay or up the specs required to play.
just read the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror's_Edge" target="_blank">wiki</a>
man, that looks cool. thanks for bringing that to my attention.
and i gotta agree with schkorpio