I've decided to comment as long as I've got something to say. The devs probably know the best what is crucial for their game, the rest is just a little more forum activity to keep the community going until NS2 comes out.
Ok, before I was basing this idea thread off of something only proposed to be in L4D, now I have played the demo on Steam:
This feature is <b>awesome</b>. I had to go prevent my daughter from tipping over a vase, I hit escape, hit "take a break" and rushed over, took care of my daughter exploring her enviroment more forcefully and then returned, with my team of survivors none the worse for wear. Hoe. Lee. Crap. Do I need to tell you how rare that is in a multiplayer game?
I can totally see how this allows people who need a more casual experience in their life because of things like minding their kids or answering the phone or whatever. Now that I have experienced playing with it, I don't know how I ever did without something like this in multiplayer games.
Please, please, oh how I hope the Devs take a serious look at implementing something like this in the NS2 game.
In competitive play you have benchwarmers and in pubs you have the disc & readyroom commands. It's not like the game will stop without you, unless it's like a 10 player pub and you're leaving as the guy with 50 res.
Yeh, I can't see it much a big deal in game like NS. Most publics seem to go 20+ players and it's that big of a deal if someone is AFK for a moment.
If the bots are going to be in the game, at least have them clearly pointed out to their teammates. There's no way a bot can adjust smartly to diverse NS gameplay, so at least you won't expect them to act according to the situation.
On L4D, I guess its more necessary due to a small team, although I can't a see a bot being good replacement on any tougher situation. I might reconsinder once I've tried out the game.
I don't want to turn into a bot and find myself across the map with 14 extra deaths if I have to go 2 minutes. NS isn't like L4D in that the team is always on the move, so I think the akfs should either be kicked to the <!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->waiting room<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--> or moved to a safer spot were they won't die(spawn)
Correct me if I am wrong but it was proposed in a Dev podcast that they would look into squad spawning, would that change your notion of the movement of the players across the map and the sitting duck or loss of a player to the ready room if a player has to go AFK? I could have sworn that in recent NS1 games I have played, I see things like "Our team has <number> of afk, we're screwed", so surely it is a problem even under the current F4 to ready room system? AFKs don't defend their spawn, right? *shrug*
<!--quoteo(post=1693355:date=Nov 13 2008, 03:53 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Nov 13 2008, 03:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693355"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"Our team has <number> of afk, we're screwed"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is an excuse. I've carried against stacked teams many more times than I would've liked. Compensate for lack of manpower with better skill and strategy! The teams in NS are NEVER symmetric, which is a good thing.
I still fail to see how the bots are going to fill in AFKs effectively. It's going to be a huge job to make them adapt to the gameplay that they could actually even phase, plant mines and then move in effectively on sg rushes, not to speak of some less regular moves. They are no way of saving you from the lack of manpower.
<!--quoteo(post=1693374:date=Nov 13 2008, 01:18 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bacillus @ Nov 13 2008, 01:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693374"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I still fail to see how the bots are going to fill in AFKs effectively. It's going to be a huge job to make them adapt to the gameplay that they could actually even phase, plant mines and then move in effectively on sg rushes, not to speak of some less regular moves. They are no way of saving you from the lack of manpower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Who said anything about them being as effective as a good player? Just as a placeholder that follows the leader and provides support would be enough when someone needs to go to the washroom, answer the phone, or what have you. Essentially, make them a welder or babbler or whatever bot for a bit *shrug*
Out of curiosity, have any of those objecting used the AFK feature "Taking A Break" in the Left 4 Dead demo?
<!--quoteo(post=1693463:date=Nov 14 2008, 03:40 PM:name=CanadianWolverine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(CanadianWolverine @ Nov 14 2008, 03:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693463"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who said anything about them being as effective as a good player? Just as a placeholder that follows the leader and provides support would be enough when someone needs to go to the washroom, answer the phone, or what have you. Essentially, make them a welder or babbler or whatever bot for a bit *shrug*
Out of curiosity, have any of those objecting used the AFK feature "Taking A Break" in the Left 4 Dead demo?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That just removes the "We lost because of AFKs argument."
I can see it being very useful in Left 4 Dead really, I just can't see it being that crucial in NS.
I guess its a bit of a difference in views when in comes to gaming styles. I prefer to dedicate to one game and really get into its logic and manipulate it as much as I can, while you're more into 'lightweight' casual gaming. That's why there are more than one guys posting here, some like to emphasize different elements.
<!--quoteo(post=1693473:date=Nov 14 2008, 01:20 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bacillus @ Nov 14 2008, 01:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1693473"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That just removes the "We lost because of AFKs argument."
I can see it being very useful in Left 4 Dead really, I just can't see it being that crucial in NS.
I guess its a bit of a difference in views when in comes to gaming styles. I prefer to dedicate to one game and really get into its logic and manipulate it as much as I can, while you're more into 'lightweight' casual gaming. That's why there are more than one guys posting here, some like to emphasize different elements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah, I get that. What can I say, how much I could get into my games changed significantly with becoming a dad. While I still get really absorbed into games sometimes these days, it just means that when I look up she has pulled apart the newspaper and strewn it all over the floor or something else in the realm of a 1 year old exploring and experimenting with her world. Heh, I consider myself a hardcore casual gamer or "perma noob" since I am always learning new gaming experiences. Probably comes as little surprise that I am not a competitive gamer but I have been complemented on being a cooperative and competent gamer.
Oh well, I wasn't really thinking of myself with this idea anyways, I'm still going to have to AFK, just wanted to lessen that impact on other gamers experiences <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
While I agree that going AFK in L4D without screwing your team over is fine and dandy, because its mostly a PvE game. However, in NS it will always be PvP until bots/trainers come out. An AFK with perfect aim effects the team dynamic considerably.
AFK players are something that just need to be dealt with by the individual server admins in my opinion. I think it would be wise if the developers could put an AFK kicker in the game. If a player is idle for 90 seconds then they get a boot. As far as having bots come in etc... I really do not believe that will solve anything, and just frustrate the other team by playing against bots. MP games are meant to be played with and against other players, not bots. Substituting a bot in is unfair to the other team who has all their players in tact.
In my opinion, unless you have massive amounts of players going AFK, its a crap shoot whether or not they effect gameplay. My point is that not all players are equal. If a CAL all-star goes AFK it will effect the game differently then if a completely useless player goes AFK. If you boot both types of players the server will have an opportunity to replace them with a different random player.
Finally, AFK is purely a public issue, not a competitive play issue. Since its a public game, who really cares about winning or losing and as such if someone goes AFK it really isn't that much of a big deal since pubbers are just playing for fun anyway. If one game gets "ruined" (again based on the impact that player could potentially have) then that game will end quickly and a new one will start.
Honestly, it just seems this topic is an example to create discussion because of the lack of substance we know about the game. Once we get more information about how NS2 works, I am sure this topic as well as others shallow with content will disappear.
I think I should make a note here, I have noticed that in the Versus mode of L4D, the "Take A Break" option isn't even available - so apparently the only way to get a bot there is to full on leave the game. What does that mean for this idea as viable in a multiplayer game where two different teams face off against each other? I don't know what those developer's reasons were for not having it there, but it certainly is no fun when I play Versus, have to jump away for daddy duties and potentially cost my team aka squad that match - they might as well vote kick me if I have to AFK all of a sudden and I don't exit out from the game myself.
Comments
This feature is <b>awesome</b>. I had to go prevent my daughter from tipping over a vase, I hit escape, hit "take a break" and rushed over, took care of my daughter exploring her enviroment more forcefully and then returned, with my team of survivors none the worse for wear. Hoe. Lee. Crap. Do I need to tell you how rare that is in a multiplayer game?
I can totally see how this allows people who need a more casual experience in their life because of things like minding their kids or answering the phone or whatever. Now that I have experienced playing with it, I don't know how I ever did without something like this in multiplayer games.
Please, please, oh how I hope the Devs take a serious look at implementing something like this in the NS2 game.
If the bots are going to be in the game, at least have them clearly pointed out to their teammates. There's no way a bot can adjust smartly to diverse NS gameplay, so at least you won't expect them to act according to the situation.
On L4D, I guess its more necessary due to a small team, although I can't a see a bot being good replacement on any tougher situation. I might reconsinder once I've tried out the game.
That is an excuse. I've carried against stacked teams many more times than I would've liked. Compensate for lack of manpower with better skill and strategy! The teams in NS are NEVER symmetric, which is a good thing.
Who said anything about them being as effective as a good player? Just as a placeholder that follows the leader and provides support would be enough when someone needs to go to the washroom, answer the phone, or what have you. Essentially, make them a welder or babbler or whatever bot for a bit *shrug*
Out of curiosity, have any of those objecting used the AFK feature "Taking A Break" in the Left 4 Dead demo?
Out of curiosity, have any of those objecting used the AFK feature "Taking A Break" in the Left 4 Dead demo?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That just removes the "We lost because of AFKs argument."
I can see it being very useful in Left 4 Dead really, I just can't see it being that crucial in NS.
I guess its a bit of a difference in views when in comes to gaming styles. I prefer to dedicate to one game and really get into its logic and manipulate it as much as I can, while you're more into 'lightweight' casual gaming. That's why there are more than one guys posting here, some like to emphasize different elements.
I can see it being very useful in Left 4 Dead really, I just can't see it being that crucial in NS.
I guess its a bit of a difference in views when in comes to gaming styles. I prefer to dedicate to one game and really get into its logic and manipulate it as much as I can, while you're more into 'lightweight' casual gaming. That's why there are more than one guys posting here, some like to emphasize different elements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh yeah, I get that. What can I say, how much I could get into my games changed significantly with becoming a dad. While I still get really absorbed into games sometimes these days, it just means that when I look up she has pulled apart the newspaper and strewn it all over the floor or something else in the realm of a 1 year old exploring and experimenting with her world. Heh, I consider myself a hardcore casual gamer or "perma noob" since I am always learning new gaming experiences. Probably comes as little surprise that I am not a competitive gamer but I have been complemented on being a cooperative and competent gamer.
Oh well, I wasn't really thinking of myself with this idea anyways, I'm still going to have to AFK, just wanted to lessen that impact on other gamers experiences <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
While I agree that going AFK in L4D without screwing your team over is fine and dandy, because its mostly a PvE game. However, in NS it will always be PvP until bots/trainers come out. An AFK with perfect aim effects the team dynamic considerably.
AFK players are something that just need to be dealt with by the individual server admins in my opinion. I think it would be wise if the developers could put an AFK kicker in the game. If a player is idle for 90 seconds then they get a boot. As far as having bots come in etc... I really do not believe that will solve anything, and just frustrate the other team by playing against bots. MP games are meant to be played with and against other players, not bots. Substituting a bot in is unfair to the other team who has all their players in tact.
In my opinion, unless you have massive amounts of players going AFK, its a crap shoot whether or not they effect gameplay. My point is that not all players are equal. If a CAL all-star goes AFK it will effect the game differently then if a completely useless player goes AFK. If you boot both types of players the server will have an opportunity to replace them with a different random player.
Finally, AFK is purely a public issue, not a competitive play issue. Since its a public game, who really cares about winning or losing and as such if someone goes AFK it really isn't that much of a big deal since pubbers are just playing for fun anyway. If one game gets "ruined" (again based on the impact that player could potentially have) then that game will end quickly and a new one will start.
Honestly, it just seems this topic is an example to create discussion because of the lack of substance we know about the game. Once we get more information about how NS2 works, I am sure this topic as well as others shallow with content will disappear.