Escort game mode

slayer20

I heard that the Siege Cannons will be able to be moved around the map by the commander, and that they can be escorted by Marines.

After thinking about this for sometime, I thought it would be pretty cool to have an Escort game mode. This is how it would work...

Their would be no commander what-so-ever. When the map starts out, there will be three Siege Cannons waiting to be built in the Marine Spawn. Two normal cannons and one slightly bigger cannon. Once each cannon is built, it will wait five seconds, then proceed to the hive at a fixed location.

The bigger Siege Cannon would look like this...
It would have a small obsveratory looking box with a satellite coming off the top of it, on the back of the Siege Cannon. This is used to Beacon and use the Scan when near the Hive. It will have a small blue bar (similar to the Half-Life 2's health stations) that will indicate how much power is left in it.
It would also have an ammo box on both sides of it to refill ammo/health.

<b>How would the Beacon work?</b>
Once more than half of the Marines are dead, the Siege Cannon will call on a Beacon and have the players respawn right next to the Siege Cannon(s). The Beacon that the Siege Cannon would use would take 35 energy.

<b>So how does someone respawn if only a couple of people are dead through most of the map?</b>
I thought that it would be boring for people to sit there waiting to respawn. So, after the bigger Siege Cannon reaches a certain checkpoint in the map, it would call on a Beacon and have the ones who are dead respawn.

<b>What happens if all the Sieges are destroyed?</b>
The Marines would be at a big disadvantage, but they still have the possibility of destorying the Hive.

<b>Are there any Resource Towers?</b>
I was thinking about this, and I think there would only be a few Resource Towers in the Alien Hive. Similar to the Siege maps found in NS today, except there wouldn't be as many. (Maybe 4-5?)

<b>How would the map style be?</b>
The map style would have to be very linear. The Siege Cannons are only going one way, and the Marines have to escort those cannons to the hive. It would be stupid of them to go off and leave the Siege Cannons un-guarded.

<b>How do you win/lose the game?</b>
Aliens win if they can destory all the Siege Cannons and kill all of the Marines.
Aliens lose if their Hive is destoryed and they all die, just like normal.
Marines win if they manage to destory the hive by any means nessecary. They do not have to have the Siege Cannons to win the game, although it would help if they had them.
Marines lose if their Siege Cannons get destoryed and they all die.

<b>What weapons would the Marines start with?</b>
The Marines would start out with normal weapons and armor. But as they progress through the game, weapons 1 and armor 1 would upgrade to the next level. The bigger Siege Cannon would also act as an Arms Lab.

<b>So they don't get Heavy Armor and Jet Packs?</b>
While the Aliens get Resources, the Marines would have something similar to the CO maps. Once they reach a certain amout of kills, they can upgrade to Jet Packs, Heavy Armor, or recieve welders or grenades. Only one of these upgrades would be avalible every game. As in, if you get a Jet Pack, you couldn't get the Heavy Armor, Welder, or Grenade. But you would always respawn with that Jet Pack.
Weapons Upgrades and Normal Upgrades are seperate. So, if you get a Jet Pack, you can still get and of the Weapon Upgrades.

List of upgrades:
Heavy Armor - 20 Kills - Armor 2 required
Jet Pack - 20 Kills - Armor 2 required
Welder - 10 Kills <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(originally 5)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Grenade - 15 Kills <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(originally 10)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
List of Weapon Upgrades:
Shotgun - 15 Kills
HMG - 25 Kills <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(originally 20)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Grenade Launcher - 25 Kills <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(originally 20)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<i>Flame Thrower - 30 Kills (This is going to be added right?)</i> <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(originally 25)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

<b>Are aliens allowed to place structures?</b>
Yes, but they are only allowed to place one type of upgrade stucture, and offence chambers. These can be placed in the map to slowdown Marine movement. So choose wisely Aliens!

<b>What if a noob decides to place a Sensory Chamber instead of a Movement Chamber?</b>
This happens in NS sometimes. The only way I can think of how it can be fixed, is if a vote occurs. I know some servers have this for Siege maps before the Hive is built. The vote would have to occur once the round starts.

<b>So Aliens are only allowed two types of attacks?</b>
No. Although they only get one Hive, they are still able to upgrade hive abilities when they reach a certain amount of kills, similar to the CO maps. The upgrades would be automatic.

List of Hive Abilites:
Ability 1 - 20 Kills
Ability 2 - 30 Kills <!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->(originally 35)<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->


This is all I can think of for now. If the kills seem too high, then I can lower them.
And of course this would have to be done by someone who knows how to code with that LUA stuff sometime after NS2's release.
I would expect the Escort maps to be called es_ or ec_ (I like ec_ better.)

<u><b>*UPDATE*</b></u>
After looking at the scores after 10 minutes of a CO game played with bots, these were the scores:
<a href="http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5513/cocore0000zv3.png" target="_blank">http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5513/cocore0000zv3.png</a>
Bots arn't as smart as players, and they would constantly get stuck, but looking at that, I can tell I needed to change the kills list for the Marine and Alien upgrades. So I did...

I will be making a long map with a slow moving vehicle just to see how long it would normally take for the Siege Cannon to reach the hive.

<u><b>*UPDATE*</b></u>
The maps types would have to be linear, meaning that there shouldn't be a lot of pathways for the marines to wander off in. The Siege Cannons are only going one way, so should the Marines, unless there is something that is blocking the path of the Cannons like a door that must be opened on the other side.
That would let the Marines go off and open the door, but some would have to stay behind and protect the Cannons.

<b>Couldn't the Siege Cannons just go around the door with the Marines?</b>
It would be pretty stupid if the Siege Cannons just stopped at closed door that they could easily get around. So why not try using some realism? The Siege Cannons are on wheels, so they could easily take a lift or a ramp up into another hallway to get around the door. But they can't climb ladders.
So have a ladder lead into an upper hallway that goes around to the door that must be opened on the other side.

You could even go as far as having the door be welded open from either side.

<b>What would the Big Siege Cannon look like?</b>
Ignoring the above paragraph about the BSC (Big Siege Cannon), it would be the same size as the other Siege Cannons. Except it would have a disasembled Observatory that was modified to fit on the back of the BSC so it could call in Beacons and scan the Hive.
It would also have two medium sized ammo boxes on the sides for players to regain ammo and health.

<b>Why not glue some Turrets on those Cannons or something?</b>
You have to think about weight for one...
If the BSC had to much stuff on it, it might not be able to move. Plus, the Turrets need a Turret Factory to function, and the Turret Factories are too big to take apart and assemble onto a Siege Cannon.

spellman23

Code it up.

slayer20

Well that was a fast reply...

I would love to code this, I just simply do not have the time, plus I'm only a mapper...
I'm thinking about starting on a NS2 escort map based on my idea, but I noticed that Unknown Worlds is using some different Level Editor and I would like to know if it is possible to import Hammer files into that?

spellman23

haha, I was checking the forums.

I believe they've said they will be using similar systems, so you can import your textures and such. It will simply be their own tool.

someone fact check me on that.

slayer20

Ah, I really hope we can import our own maps from hammer!

Some people have already started making remakes of some NS maps, and if they have to start over, then that can't be good.

Sewlek

lern lua and code it <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" /> (should be possible as far as I heard)

darktimes

this is a very well done suggestion.

its so good i can think you will play escort in NS2, instead of siege.

however, Lua is very moddable. so lets do it!

slayer20

This probably wouldn't be too hard to code...It might take awhile to get it all down, but I suppose I could try to code some stuff in.

But I updated the first post and talked more about the Linear gameplay style.

Radix

On the one hand, this suggesting seems good. On the other hand, I'm wary of anything that resembles combat.

This would be best left to lua, but is likely a good idea in that form.

slayer20

Yeah, if it's done with LUA, then people can easily customize it however they want. (add new levels, upgrades, etc.)

And what do you mean by it's wary of anything that resembles combat?

slayer20

I made up a quick concept picture on how it would look...
The image I took was from the Video Podcast. I just took a screenshot of it and edited it in photoshop. If I'm not allowed to do this, I'll remove the image.

<img src="http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1518/bmascconcepthy1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

darktimes

looks good. but the obs should be bigger. i thought of the whole back.

slayer20

I'm not sure if it would fit on the whole back. I don't know what the back looks like, but it seems that if it was placed on the entire back, it would get in the way of the deployment.

Plus the original obs is pretty small, so it would only make sense to have this one be smaller.

ryknow69

thats the M.A.S.C.<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />?? i cant watch the podcasts =( dial up internet at my house sucks, i cant go to high speed comp lab so often with school

it looks awsome, and the B.M.A.S.C. will make a great cousin for it =P

MAking the maps have alot of weld points will be great stratagy, but making the points far away from the preset path of the seiges means, IF your willing to lose the manpower 1 guy can offer to go weld something all the way over there, potentialy putting the cannon at risk, u can or not do it =)

like welding this point that takes 30 seconds to get to, and 30 seconds back, opens a ladder to these vents which can allow marines to sneak ahead of the seige cannon and hold a major chokepoint better. OR welding this activates this lift on the other seige cannons waypoints, allowing the other seige escort team easier passage, like turning on lights =)

slayer20

That would also mean that someone would have to upgrade to a welder.

Which the only problem with that is that everyone doesn't upgrade to it...which I can only see that happening on small servers of 5vs5 or something because when there's like 15vs15 someone's bound to upgrade to welder to weld teammates and stuff.

ryknow69

i say everyone should start with a welder to heal cannons, or they all should get it when the BMASC gets to a certain point =)

slayer20

I would suggest getting them later in the game, like the marines pass through an armory to pick up their welders.

This could also eliminate the CO-style level up for the marines. The armory could be located in the middle of the map. It could put stress on the Marines too if their not doing a good job at protecting their Siege.

ryknow69

The map should have alot of DI that would help the aliens ALOT, meaning, this door WILL be DI'ed ###### by the time the seige gets there, so u etter have a flamer with u. Add some less significant Spots that will get DIed after the seiges pass them to make sure the marines keep the hedges trimmed. Like if u go to the entire left side of the map to weld the lights on the right side of the map, u better make sure the right team flamed off the DI thats on the lights, or that'd be a waste of time.

slayer20

There's only going to be one way to go, so no left or right sides of the map, unless it's an absolute objective the Marines must do (ie. going up a ladder to unlock a door on the other side).

ryknow69

well, whati got from your idea, theres 3 seiges, they go 3 diffrent ways. You say they all go one way?<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> that doesnt sound so strategic of marines to do that. They arent a 'forced' objective, but more of an aid, u weld this, u 'aid' this seige group, like a simple thing like turning on lights in this one room/hallway.

slayer20

<!--quoteo(post=1687235:date=Sep 3 2008, 09:52 AM:name=ryknow69)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ryknow69 @ Sep 3 2008, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687235"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->well, whati got from your idea, theres 3 seiges, they go 3 diffrent ways. You say they all go one way?<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> that doesnt sound so strategic of marines to do that. They arent a 'forced' objective, but more of an aid, u weld this, u 'aid' this seige group, like a simple thing like turning on lights in this one room/hallway.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No, all the sieges go the same way.

ryknow69

no, i got the fact they all go one way, im talking about hallways? would they all go down one hallway??? wouldnt sound fun for the marines if the aliens always knew they HAVE to go down that way, y not split the seiges up, if i were a strategic military person, which im applying for in about 3 years, i would split up the seiges to prevent a heavy loss if that group were to be ambushed. Sticking together is a bile trap, gorges would just hide away once they get the kills they need, and that'd be easy, or simple skulk suicide. i say some maps should have diffrent opinions of this, some maps should have dif amount of seiges, some should have them go down one way, others maybe 2 together, 1 alone, this would end to be all up to the mapper.

slayer20

Well, having the Sieges go separate ways would make the game very very hard for the Marines to keep track of the Siege cannons.

ryknow69

how would it? make marines randomly spawn between the X seiges. Not at a starting point. Have a script set in were if the seige is unguarded, the BMASC will beacon to the selected location of the seige. If the seiges are all together, that'll just be a blood bath, having the seiges randomly choose one of the X paths created would be a nice additon to my idea, this way aliens must search and prioritize targets, go for these faster and closer seiges or go for the lumbering Big Cannon/ammo box/health dispencer/radar thingy on treds. =)

slayer20

I may have to think about that for a bit.

But if they were going separate ways, they would have to be connected by hallways every so often so they can run back and forth to the Siege cannons.

And I do see what your saying, I was first thinking about making them far apart...

ryknow69

maybe having a phas gate behind a nanite shield wall, you have to weld it open, and it opens up. Each side is responsable in opening their door, so if theres 5 ways for the seige to go from start, and 4 extra ways on eaach of the 5, thats alot of phase gates u CAN open, but opening the gates is a verylong weld.

StixNStonz

If the sieges are relatively expensive (current sieges are, so these would probably be even more), then you'd likely want to keep them all together. That way, your marines can focus on one route and defend that. If the sieges go multiple routes, you need to split your forces to defend them. A focused alien attack would have a much better chance of taking out one siege group; then, should the other group make it, they have half the offensive power, and half the defense as well. The focused alien group could easily switch their focus to this new group and annihilate them too.

Its like an HA train. Two HA teams split up are a far inferior force to one massive HA train. Sure they cover more, but they better not meet too much resistance, or both will be overwhelmed.

ryknow69

yea, doing all that cordination would take time, and if there was but one marine group, it'd be anihalated once the first cordinated attack happens, aliens can simply hide behind the crates and other obsticles and let the seige teams pass an maul them from behind while another group distracts them with head on maulings. Split up, the aliens have to split up too. Cordinating a smaller attack is easier, less chance of mass nub interference.