Nikita Missile
t0x1kw4st3
Join Date: 2008-04-27 Member: 64167Members
Join Date: 2008-04-27 Member: 64167Members
<div class="IPBDescription">a commanders dream</div>Make a buildable weapon that fires a Nikita Missile. Like in Metal Gear Solid. EXCEPT it is controllable only by the commander. This would create a new level for good commanders. Not only do they have to organize their troops, upgrades, weapons and all that well, but complimenting their army they can micro these medium-fast moving missiles. (Damage is equivalent to whatever it costs to make it)
To micro the missile, the commander can select it like a marine. Except, they have to use their arrow keys to make it move in a direction, and page up & down causes the missile to go perfectly vertical (up/down), and shift + up/down causes the missile to tilt (so it can move along inclines).
The Nikita Missile stays on its current course until the commander orders it to change. (This will allow the commander to micro different priorities, especially if the missile has two to three seconds to go down a corridor).
It would be PiMp.
A Skilled Commander then could hypothetically be causing physical damage without needing his marines, so long as he has experience with the Nikita Missiles.
(Obviously, though, you can create "balance" by the COST of the missile. If it was free, it would be extremely imbalanced. If it was 5 res, imbalanced. 10 res? Balanced? Imbalanced? 20 res? Balanced?)
PS, the size of the missile would be about the size of a skulk. (or, 5 grenade lengths) (or, 3/4 of a marine's height).
It can also be destroyed on its way to its target. Once destroyed, either by impact or damage, it explodes (causing appropriate damage, whatever that may be).
To micro the missile, the commander can select it like a marine. Except, they have to use their arrow keys to make it move in a direction, and page up & down causes the missile to go perfectly vertical (up/down), and shift + up/down causes the missile to tilt (so it can move along inclines).
The Nikita Missile stays on its current course until the commander orders it to change. (This will allow the commander to micro different priorities, especially if the missile has two to three seconds to go down a corridor).
It would be PiMp.
A Skilled Commander then could hypothetically be causing physical damage without needing his marines, so long as he has experience with the Nikita Missiles.
(Obviously, though, you can create "balance" by the COST of the missile. If it was free, it would be extremely imbalanced. If it was 5 res, imbalanced. 10 res? Balanced? Imbalanced? 20 res? Balanced?)
PS, the size of the missile would be about the size of a skulk. (or, 5 grenade lengths) (or, 3/4 of a marine's height).
It can also be destroyed on its way to its target. Once destroyed, either by impact or damage, it explodes (causing appropriate damage, whatever that may be).
Comments
Not to mention that it could hugely skew the difficulty for the aliens while making everyone who isn't the commander leave cause they just sit around while the com takes out the hive within the first few minutes of the game. It's a noob cannon and would be banned by every server if implemented in the final game.
Wow, so wrong. Noob cannon is called the awp, and this is why: 1 hit, 1 kill. Think before you speak, nubbins.
#1: The balance factor would be determined by the cost & damage. As I said, these two factors will limit the Missile's use.
#2: You can't take out a hive with one missile. Nor 10 missiles. If it has the damage equivalence of a grenade, or two grenades, that would be that. No commander could take out a hive if they microed a missile into it (25 seconds, maybe less). Plus, while the commander is microing the missile, they would lose time to micro marines and their base (unless they were good). The hive would heal more than the damage done.
Once again, wrong!
#1) Waste of resource implies the effect is less than the cost. Or, the potential has not yet been conceived. Think before you speak, nubbins.
#2) Balance the effect and cost.
And if it hits a web, it is caught in limbo.
why use it then when 2 marines can do better?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Plus, while the commander is microing the missile, <u>they would lose time to micro marines</u> and their base<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
exactly that what we DONT want. if a new commander sits in the chair and think "oh cool, a missile!" the marines will instantly lose. becouse medpacks, ammo and looking for the base is the most important job for the comm.
ok. for what situation the missile is better as a marine squad?
before you shout youre "WRONG!!!1" please think about it.
in which way could the rocket do more damage as 3-4 marines?
and if you say that the rocket is faster as a marine. well.
when its too fast, it will never reach its target, it will hit a wall.
if its too slow, it takes to long to be usefull.
in what situation is the missile really needed and not just a cool toy for the comm?
Yea, as an alien player I totally want to be able to control something akin to a missile, but with more maneuverability and wall-walking. I also want that missile to be called a skulk, and I want them to be free on spawn. Totally good idea dude, why didn't the NS team think of that?
and please, if you're going to be a petrionic a s s and call others "nubbins" please dont be a NUB ASWELL! god. I wanted to strangle you when u called them nubbins, i hate when noobs call noobs.... noobs, it kills little kittens everytime a noob does that <=*(.
Two marines are definately more versatile than the rocket. This is definately not a core game mechanic (unless we're talking physics). It can be considered a cool "toy" as well. However, the use of the rocket could be a commander-tropp support mechanism (especially before the marines get grenade launchers.) It could be an upgrade to the Turret Factory (X res / missile). Then, once the missile is built, the commander clicks "Launch" (possibly referencing a direction) and it immediately goes under his control. It's velocity remains constant (he can also make it accelerate/decelerate, but that's a different issue).
So, it could be the commander's way of complimenting his army with explosives (equivalent of X grenades). It would also require skill and micro-time to control the missile. This would distinguish an experienced commander with a noob commander. Plus, if he can hotkey the missile, he can take a 2 second gap between spamming med/ammo packs and commanding the missile. This would teach commanders multi-tasking.
Obviously the missile is nearly useless without marines to take and control the area under fire. So, missile can be built from the Turret Factory for 5 - 10 res, launched at the commander's call, and can be microed with equivalent to X grenades worth of explosive damage. You could possibly even make it a low-mid range missile, so the commander couldn't go too far with it (runs out of fuel, explodes).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->in what situation is the missile really needed and not just a cool toy for the comm?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the aliens have lots of defensive chambers and the marines don't have GLs yet. (Although, the mobile siege cannon would take care of the chambers).
Possibly, a Mobile Missile Pad would be required then. Or, it could be launched from a Marine who is wielding the RCM (remote controlled missile) or CCM (Commander Controlled Missile).
An onos is fleeing the marine's base. It's the annoying onos who soaks up half hit points in damage and eats the HA. The commander is pissed and knows he can't lose the HA. The Onos roars into the base once more, this time his eye is set on the last HA (firing HMG ceaselessly). HA is eaten, commander selects TF, presses "Launch", controls rocket after the fleeing onos. He navigates the missile through infested hallways for about 5 seconds before catching up, hitting the Onos right before he pirouettes off some ledge and causing X grenades worth damage. The Onos dies (barely) and the HA is saved and returns to base.
<!--quoteo(post=1687613:date=Sep 8 2008, 11:50 AM:name=ratclaw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ratclaw @ Sep 8 2008, 11:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1687613"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lets just all agree that a missle isn't the best idea. We can do that... Right?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
THE FUNDAMENTAL IDEA IS:
The commander can control DYNAMIC OBJECTS IN-GAME (with different effects, due to the technologically advanced human force).
In this case, the object is a missile. I mean, the commander will be able to control the Moving Siege Cannon, no? Why not a missile? It is an offshoot of the new game mechanic (although how they decide to implement commander-object manipulation might not support ideas like the missile.)
I retract calling you guys nubbins all trollish n shieze. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Think about it though, the only thing the commander could do in NS1 was drop objects and items onto the environment.
In NS2, the commander can manipulate objects in the environment (MOVING SIEGE CANNON). Am I Not On The Right Track Here? KTHXBYE.
But i have to agree with the "Onos Problem". It is highly annoying that your HA's get constantly eaten by said Onos, thus you can launch the "Nikita Missle", chase after the onos, and possibly kill it. But that brings me back to problem nr.1, you will divide your attention again from your marines and duty's as an commander.
Every commander knows that from the start of the game, you have to seek out Ress Platforms, and upgrade your armor and weapons for your marines, thus giving them a fair change against the onos and other Kharaa. Main problem is, you will have to do it fast. Besides, if the NS-Team even consider this idea, it will give the marines a too big of an advantage, but only if the marines have an experienced commander and knows how to get the Ress platform fast, giving the marines a lot of ress. Thus the commander can create a lot of "Nikita Missle's".
*sigh* but you will neglect your Marines again and blah blah blah... Main point is, you will lose focus. Your marines will die, including your HA's. You could possibly lose forward bases. making the Marines lose in the end.
Those are just a couple of faults in your idea.
Unc0nn3ct3d
So, the Commander would always be maintaining his army because using the Missile wouldn't be an option to him until his marines are buckled down and he is sieging an enemy base, where a TF would be neccesary. So, to compliment the siege, the five second micro of the Missile wouldn't be too big of a drain on the Commander. AND, the Commander might ANTICIPATE battle and drop med packs in front of the marines (before they're bleeding), micro the missile for a few seconds, then come back to the noob wreckage.
Mind you, the missile definately has its place. It could be used when certain criteria are met: marine squad buckled down, defensive position. Maintenance of the squad is minimal. PGs are up.
OR,
the Scout Missile -
The commander can launch a Scout Missile from the TF and maintain it in the enemy base (to give vision to his TF & Siege Cannons). Therefore, he wouldn't have to waste his pings were he in a strategic position.
Whatever it is, incorporating commander micro into gameplay might actually be useful and fun for commanders (besides anticipating the med pack directly onto the dying marine).
But it seems this idea has overwhelming negative feedback even though I think it would be a cool addition.
I like the "Scouting Missile" it has more potential and is more usefull, like it's name states the "Scouting Missile". I would personally like it to be some sort of "Hovering Drone" since it's more logical then a missile continuasly flying around, while a drone could hover above the designated area. It should have a small gun on it for self protection. Nothing major, something like a pistol or something. Ofcourse, it would do the same dmg as a marine pistol.
But it has a small problem, it can be destroyed. so that means that the drone needs to have a extraordinary large range to scan, and Marine escort, otherwise you would be spending your ress again on something that's more expensive then regular scans.
It's a challenge, i like it.
Unc0nn3ct3d
The missile idea is kinda borked. Not only is it difficult to balance (please don't say everything is balanced by res cost and build time) but, as many times mentioned, it draws too much attention from the commander's real roles and puts them into a flying sim mini game?
I'm still foggy on the reason. While I hear the claim about support explosive, I just don't quite see the point. Too much time and energy for a single explosion item, not to mention I doubt the missile to be fast enough to be effective yet slow enough to steer it. From what I can tell, there is little to no reason to implement a commander controlled missile.
If you were to suggest a rocket launcher, similar to the Dystopia one, when I might be more inclined to think about it. For those that don't know, Dystopia has a rocket launcher where you can either laser guide it or fly it using an attached screen. However, it moves so fast it's hard to turn tight corners.
like Spellman23 said "it moves so fast it it's hard to turn tight corners". The speed will definitely be a problem, but by all means it has to be fast, or it will give an unfair advantage against the Kharaa, because if it's slow they can use their speed to dodge it.
Upon firing the "Dystopia" the marine has to be stationary (like standing still, or kneeling) since he would be controlling the missile fired by the "Dystopia" (but that's common sense) It also must have somesort of time to shoulder the weapon, to reload, etc, etc. And it has to be expensive, we dont want the entire Marine Corps to have those "Dystopia" rocket launchers. Now THAT would be unfair.
wel, that's my opinion anyway.
Unc0nn3ct3d
Anyways. To clarify, in the Dystopia mod the rocket launcher is single fire, 12 second reload time, and a decent amount of damage. i.e. direct hit kills most units. It's primary use is as part of the opening salvo against a tight group of enemy units. Then, you would switch to the machine pistol (about 24 rounds) to finish off any survivors, while hopefully supported by your teammates.
Since Dystopia does force 6v6 team battles by nature of the game, it has a better and more fitting role as the initial big burst of damage, maybe even around the corner a little. For NS, this ability pales slightly. As mentioned, the GL is probably superior since it is already explosive and has the nice knack of being able to fire off 4 individual shots instead of one giant load. Granted they are slower and arc, but that's part of the game.
If the rocket launcher system was implemented, it would require tweaking the refire rate, damage, and the pistol secondary isn't sufficient as a backup in NS. If it was instead fitted closer to say UT style rocket launcher, I would argue we've breached into death match frag fest arena at which point we leave the original NS idea entirely.
I merely brought it up to point out another similar implementation in another game. However, hopefully this has clarified the context of the weapon.
I'm not in support of this missile idea though, so scratch some of that off.
I'm in full support of a second 'Support' commander.
Rocket propelled grenades? (RPGs)
If we followed traditional gaming logic that rockets are ultra powerful (which might not be the case considering the name RPG), then you a feasible rocket could be simply one rocket equivalent of four grenades worth of damage.
Then, considering small life forms (gorges and skulks) die in either one or two hits with the GL, the missile would be more anti-fade, anti-onos weaponry. The drawback is: looong reload time (longer than GL). So, it's a one-shot scenario per battle.
That's my opinion.
Sad fact though, NS and NS2 are inside games, CQC, A rocket launcher isn't really designed to launch at an alien/target at 3-6 meters, so it wouldn't fit into the logic of the game, and logic, is the most IMPORTANT thing in ANY game, just as much as the gameplay itself.
Deployable Turrets? Sounds good. Would add another level to the game.
Your other idea? Sounds good. Would add another level to the game.
It's the developers idea, who want reasons for implementation. That being said, they probably already have all their plans for weapons so I understand its unlikely the RPG would ever make it into the game barring a modmod. The missile won't make it either, nor will the mini tank. But, the ideas behind those ideas might make it into the game in one form or another. (Yes, I said ideas twice. The Ideas behind the Ideas.)
Reload time is WAY too long though, lets just say we keep it the same as the GL reloading time, that is about 4-7 sec. And your idea of an Smg (sub machine gun) as a second weapon for the one carrying the "Dystopia" would be rather troubeling, since then we have to make the "Dystopia" an class and that would be too much like CS/CSS. (counter strike/Counter strike source). I say for one that when you pick up the "Dystopia" you keep your LMG you are currently using thus giving you enough ammo to survive against the Kharaa. If, you are being attacked and you cannot fire your rocket.
Now about that Second Commander: NO!!!. Are you implementing that those 2 commanders have EXACTLY the same abillities as one commander should have?
that would DEFINITLY give the Marines an unfair advantage, think about it. The Marines could upgrade faster, Build faster, drop weapons faster. it would take away the challenge you have as being an commander. I say we cancel out that idea.
Third point of attention : Scratch the "Nikita Missile" i say we go for the "Hovering Drone" as i so lovely dubbed *cough*.
Anyway, like i said before (if we go for the drone that is) it should have a big range to scan, have the abilitie to defend it self, but it would still need an marine escort about, lets say, 2-3 marines. it HAS to be weak (that's one reason for the Marine escort) but by all means not TOO weak. And it's armor should be upgradable, thus making it more resistant to attacks. It should be built at the main base other wise the escort would be pointless. Lets say the built time is about 1:30 min and the cost about 50 or above.
That is all,
What say you, people of the Forum.
Unc0nn3ct3d
These include:
-Ammo And Health Drops
-Give Low Tech Weapons(LMG[If dropable], Shotgun, mines, and welder)
-Give Marines commands
-Drop Secondary structures(RT, TF, GT, Low Tech Armory[he isn't allowed to upgrade it])
-M.A.S.C. and any other bot Control[He can't make them though]
-Other things yet to come[Idk what else basicly]
The main commander can be demoted to support if enough votes come in, and the support commander get promoted to main, this can go intwine with the Eject of either commander, so if they like the support but hate the main, they can switch 'em.
2 words: shared resources.
Please discuss second commander in the 2 commander thread. While an interesting idea, I also agree it is probably not a good idea for a vanilla game system. It becomes more useful in larger games, but otherwise will probably not be worth pulling another Marine out of the field.
5 Res to build. It's sole function is to scout. No other purpose -- no attack, no defense. Simply, movement with vision.
So, the commander can keep his eye on other parts of the map with his drones.
If a skulk parasites the Drone, the parasite sticks with the Drone and reveals all information the Scout Drone sees, and relays it to the aliens.
This would make it have a certain use to Aliens, too.
50 res is way too expensive for its function.
They start with the tampon grenade, doing standard damage and upgrade to a pocket version of the M79. The M79 does slightly more damage than the grenade but has the advantage when it comes to range - and it also explodes on contact which is cool. The next and final upgrade is the RPG. The RPG can be fired in two modes, the standard straight line rocket mode and the fly-by-wire system. The fly-by-wire mode is controlled by the player and has a maximum range to prevent exploits.
Won't this make the GL useless? The GL as it is in NS1 needs to be changed. I propose a design which will basically make it a hybrid between the shotgun and a siege cannon. The GL should ideally have 2 modes of fire, one where it fires a sabot out of its main tube and another where it fires either a sticky mine or a sonic round. Sonic rounds can only damage alien buildings. They are an alternative to MASCs.