Commander Drawings
CanadianWolverine
Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13249Members
Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13249Members
<div class="IPBDescription">A discussion of way points and other related stuff</div>So there I was, playing a game of NS today, listening to the Commander on his mic:
"Ok, go the the way point."
"No, not that way..."
"Why aren't you leaving base?"
"Ok, I understand there are Kharaa attacking, that is why we need to get out of base and attack that hive."
"Argh, I give up, who wants HMG when I recycle?"
I had also stumbled upon this today as well:
<a href="http://quikmaps.com/" target="_blank">http://quikmaps.com/</a>
Now, I am not sure what words to search for but I could almost swear this idea has been put forward before:
<b>What if Commanders/Hive Minds could draw on their map and we would see the strong strategic suggestions?</b>
Another example might be how sports commentators might pause a game on tv then draw x, o, and lines with arrows that illustrate what they are talking about to the viewer to convey the masterful moves the teams are making down in the arena. Would be cool if recorded games of NS2 had this as well, come to think of it.
Sure, you might have commanders whose mission it is to "draw" phallic and other crude images, but that is what the eject is for, right?
I would think by now we all recognize trying to relay strategic importance in NS1 can be a challenge and pretty frustrating for even the best of commanders at times, so this is an area I hope will see improvement in NS2.
Please discuss ways in which a player with a over all view of the battle can relay plans well to players new and veteran. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
"Ok, go the the way point."
"No, not that way..."
"Why aren't you leaving base?"
"Ok, I understand there are Kharaa attacking, that is why we need to get out of base and attack that hive."
"Argh, I give up, who wants HMG when I recycle?"
I had also stumbled upon this today as well:
<a href="http://quikmaps.com/" target="_blank">http://quikmaps.com/</a>
Now, I am not sure what words to search for but I could almost swear this idea has been put forward before:
<b>What if Commanders/Hive Minds could draw on their map and we would see the strong strategic suggestions?</b>
Another example might be how sports commentators might pause a game on tv then draw x, o, and lines with arrows that illustrate what they are talking about to the viewer to convey the masterful moves the teams are making down in the arena. Would be cool if recorded games of NS2 had this as well, come to think of it.
Sure, you might have commanders whose mission it is to "draw" phallic and other crude images, but that is what the eject is for, right?
I would think by now we all recognize trying to relay strategic importance in NS1 can be a challenge and pretty frustrating for even the best of commanders at times, so this is an area I hope will see improvement in NS2.
Please discuss ways in which a player with a over all view of the battle can relay plans well to players new and veteran. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":)" border="0" alt="smile-fix.gif" />
Comments
can draw things on the map like an arrow telling people to go through this corridor or an X to
mark an attack target and maybe at the end a little smiley face when you have won
The problem here is, how do the marines (or aliens) see what has been drawn? They would have to bring om the map (probably wont make any sense on the minimap) to see what is going on. And with doodles all over it, it could also be hard to read the actual map.
I think it'd only be useful to suggest an objective to your marines and not actually control them that way, because who goes where?
(I know I'll use a phallic symbol to represent hive location)
I have been letting my thoughts tumble on this and I think you are right to some degree. If it was the bringing up a big map (and on the mini map), it could be destructive to the goals of the team if the Overseer were to basicly doodle or even completely white out a map, sorta like self sabotage. As much as we would hope there wouldn't be players who purposefully ruin games like this, it could happen. In that regard, I would hope other ideas would work well in their implementation, the ideas of player voting, in this case ejection, and that there would be easy commands for server admin as well. One thing to add to this that could help would be if a Commander/Hive Mind were to be ejected, whatever directions on the map would be erased - since ejecting a leader is basicly saying you refuse to have any part in their plans and want a new plan that will hopefully salvage the situation, it would definitely gel a team against a malicious player if what was doodled reinforced that.
It would also be the sign of a good commander if drawings were clear and concise. To that end, I would think that drawings would be done in "thin light pencil" so to speak, with the ability to be easily erased, since plans do need to change with the dynamic match.
Your highlighting the problems with the heads up map are interesting as well, some people would definitely appreciate that blinking way point at times simply because it means they don't have to pull up 2D information, blocking their view of the immediate 3D situation at hand. To that end, I came up with an idea I hope you like: <b>Have the drawing lines show up on the floor.</b> It could even be atmospheric, for the Marines it could look like glowing holographs overlayed on their HUDs when they glance at the floor and for the Kharaa it would look like spores, sorta like scent trails (not floating in the air blocking their view mind you, stuck to the floor - out of the way but still immediately useful).
I hope you can envision how such a tool of communication could be quite powerful in the hands of a good overseer - who knows, maybe even drawing could be a way for them to call on so called tech or bio "spells", making it an even more robust and visceral experience to be in that role for the good of your team.
More importantly, this will create an amazing canvas for golden internet humor.
I'm not so sure about trying to map the drawings onto a real surface in the map. Might be painful, plus I don't quite see as well the usefulness. Especially if it starts clipping through walls. Then again, I'm one of those people who draw strategy quickly and abstractly most of the time.
Overall, sounds like a good idea. The real question is how to interface it. The normal commander view might be too small to pull this off, perhaps a button to bring up the overall map (similar to a regular marine) and then you can write on that. Also, if squad leaders are implemented, maybe they can help draw on their maps for their squad.
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Overall, sounds like a good idea. The real question is how to interface it. The normal commander view might be too small to pull this off, perhaps a button to bring up the overall map (similar to a regular marine) and then you can write on that. Also, if squad leaders are implemented, maybe they can help draw on their maps for their squad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good points, I agree.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...
I'm not so sure about trying to map the drawings onto a real surface in the map. Might be painful, plus I don't quite see as well the usefulness. Especially if it starts clipping through walls. Then again, I'm one of those people who draw strategy quickly and abstractly most of the time.
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Well, try to picture it like this, you know how the way point floats in the air above the floor? IMHO that clutters a view up, even though that is based on the Commander clicking on a surface, so I find that painful already. So I propose the way point/symbols/drawings appear more like a slightly lifted spray tag on the surface of the floor, so that if you draw an arrow to indicate "go this way" players would just follow the arrows on the floor.
To think of a real world example, I have seen this in hospitals and some other health care buildings before, where there are different colored lines on the floor you follow to reach a destination.
And Blackmesa <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" />, I like the idea of having little raised "sprays" on the floor, nothing imposing but can be very helpful for the commander to get marines down the route he wants them to take.
The other solution could be to have the simple draw tool available in the 3d view that actually draws the before mentioned 3d graphics. I even think this could be mapped to the 2d map with great success.
If they wanted to sabotage and scribble over everything, you'd also have to prevent the comm from potentially recycling the entire base while you're at it, since first and foremost is this concern.
Besides, as spellman23 mentioned:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Guild Wars also has a similar feature. After a period of time, the drawings go away on your map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only problem with that is that if you can only see the image with the map open, how are you guaranteed to see it with your map closed? You sure as heck can't open it mid-battle while the skulk is lunging at your face for a map to tell you to go to Sewer Hive.
Drawing on the floor of the game seems like a nice idea, but that could easily be not really suitable for the game and perhaps remind the player that it is in fact a game (I wanna feel like I'm there, not like I'm playing a game which simulates it). Besides, speaking from the standpoint of a programmer, sounds like a lot of work to be able to do, not to mention the amount of memory required to show every twist and turn of every path drawn.
What I propose is simple. The comm's interface now is that he clicks at a point on the map, and the selected marines receive that waypoint as a destination. I think that the comm should be able to click and hold, where he moves his mouse will be a line and where he releases the mouse, that's where the destination will be. For the marines, it means they will immediately hear that there is a new waypoint. When they open the map, they see both the trail and the final destination. This way you won't have to pick out skulk teeth from your butt because the comm reassigned a waypoint to go to.
If they wanted to sabotage and scribble over everything, you'd also have to prevent the comm from potentially recycling the entire base while you're at it, since first and foremost is this concern.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are absolutely right. The devs shouldn't have to bother with possible abusing, just because they make a flexible game. In this case it should, as you say, be up to the server admins.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only problem with that is that if you can only see the image with the map open, how are you guaranteed to see it with your map closed? You sure as heck can't open it mid-battle while the skulk is lunging at your face for a map to tell you to go to Sewer Hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think thats a problem. No kind of commander strategy information is relevant when you have a skulk in your face. I for one uses the full map a lot. I have it open half the time to get an overview of whats going on and where my team mates and the enemy is. But thats just me, I cant expect everyone else to play the same way.
There could be some kind of alert system though. Like a blinking "Map updated" light. I don't think the "paint" should fade away after some time, but rather be easy to clear all or parts of the drawing.