Deployable Gun Emplacement
Captain Skill
Join Date: 2008-10-03 Member: 65117Members
Join Date: 2008-10-03 Member: 65117Members
<b>Concept:</b> A classic. Deployable ultra-heavy, tripod mounted, belt-fed machine guns complete with gun shields, specializing in suppressive fire, cover provision, area denial and fire support.
<b>Mechanics:</b>
-Commander creates this weapon as normal.
-The immense weight of the emplacement kit slows its carrier significantly. The weapon <b>cannot</b> be used undeployed. This weapon occupies the carrier's primary weapon slot.
-The emplacement may be deployed on any flat, or shallowly inclined surface.
-The emplacement features long deployment/undeployment times. This can be shortened with the help of other marines to a minimum duration (encourages teamwork, and squad formation). Shortening of this deployment in this manner is subject to diminishing returns.
-Once deployed, the emplacement's gun may be fired in a 180 degree arc. Any marine may utilize the weapon, though the one responsible for initiating deployment automatically mans it upon completion of set-up.
-The emplacement may be abandoned at any time. Only one marine may man it at a time.
-The emplacement may be destroyed during or after deployment, though it is capable of taking a great deal of punishment, especially with respect to attacks made against its gun shield.
-When deployed, the emplacement may be repaired. Rate of repair may be lower, and subject to diminishing returns while it is under attack.
-A spotlight and laser sight are affixed to the emplacement and its gun barrel, illuminating targets, and indicating bullet trajectory for the user. This obviously has the effect of making the emplacement highly noticable for the aliens, giving them plenty of forewarning.
-As the machine gun is belt fed, ammo capacity is extremely high, permitting suppressive fire. However, reload times are proportionately long. Reloading can be sped up with the help of additional marines (again, reload time reduction is subject to diminishing returns and a cap).
-Per bullet damage is high, as is accuracy; this is a high-calibre, properly mounted ultra-heavy weapon.
-Gun shields protect the user, and others behind from most frontal attacks; the emplacement is to be countered via flanking, indirect fire, aoe damage, and attacks during set up/undeployment/reloading. The gun's limited killzone/field of fire makes flanking tactics especially effective.
-When undeployed, if the person initially undeploying the emplacement has a primary weapon, it will be dropped so that the emplacement may be retrieved.
-The weapon cannon be undeployed while in use.
<b>Mechanics:</b>
-Commander creates this weapon as normal.
-The immense weight of the emplacement kit slows its carrier significantly. The weapon <b>cannot</b> be used undeployed. This weapon occupies the carrier's primary weapon slot.
-The emplacement may be deployed on any flat, or shallowly inclined surface.
-The emplacement features long deployment/undeployment times. This can be shortened with the help of other marines to a minimum duration (encourages teamwork, and squad formation). Shortening of this deployment in this manner is subject to diminishing returns.
-Once deployed, the emplacement's gun may be fired in a 180 degree arc. Any marine may utilize the weapon, though the one responsible for initiating deployment automatically mans it upon completion of set-up.
-The emplacement may be abandoned at any time. Only one marine may man it at a time.
-The emplacement may be destroyed during or after deployment, though it is capable of taking a great deal of punishment, especially with respect to attacks made against its gun shield.
-When deployed, the emplacement may be repaired. Rate of repair may be lower, and subject to diminishing returns while it is under attack.
-A spotlight and laser sight are affixed to the emplacement and its gun barrel, illuminating targets, and indicating bullet trajectory for the user. This obviously has the effect of making the emplacement highly noticable for the aliens, giving them plenty of forewarning.
-As the machine gun is belt fed, ammo capacity is extremely high, permitting suppressive fire. However, reload times are proportionately long. Reloading can be sped up with the help of additional marines (again, reload time reduction is subject to diminishing returns and a cap).
-Per bullet damage is high, as is accuracy; this is a high-calibre, properly mounted ultra-heavy weapon.
-Gun shields protect the user, and others behind from most frontal attacks; the emplacement is to be countered via flanking, indirect fire, aoe damage, and attacks during set up/undeployment/reloading. The gun's limited killzone/field of fire makes flanking tactics especially effective.
-When undeployed, if the person initially undeploying the emplacement has a primary weapon, it will be dropped so that the emplacement may be retrieved.
-The weapon cannon be undeployed while in use.
Comments
Proper tweaking of these will easily render the idea balanced.
That said, it definitely would be effective versus heavier aliens if they're stupid enough to engage the thing in a guileless frontal attack, while it's locked and loaded. That's the idea; it's heavy point defense, one with fallible aim that comes at a considerable expense in resources, and ties up a marine; brute force isn't going to work unless you use overwhelming amounts. That said, there are plenty of ways to counter it:
-Flanking is best due to its limited field of fire, and vulnerability to rear and side attacks.
-Indirect fire works; bombard it with arcing or area of effect projectiles behind cover, while it's powerless to return fire.
-Onos meat shield in front of other aliens which then flank the emplacements.
-Quickly charge the gun while it's reloading (it has a long reload time), or being deployed.
-Umbra provides valuable cover.
my idea though, was a deployable automated defense Turret.
That said, how is the emplacement overpowered? Intelligent definition of its specific properties, which I've deliberately left vague, will ensure the idea is balanced. Further, it has many viable counters which I've listed in my prior post.
Except for Umbra, Onos, and Xenocide spam. Arcing and AoE weaponry (Bile Bombs, Acid, Toxic Gas + whatever new toys the aliens get) would work too assuming there was any angle whatsoever that provided total or near total cover while simutaneously allowing you to attack the emplacements (highly likely). Let's also not forget about those reload times; a pause of several seconds is pretty much a death sentence in this situation. In the end game against the full might of the Kharaa arsenal, these emplacements are by no means impenetrable. At best they could delay the inevitable, but it obviously will not be offset indefinitely.
-Onos meat shield in front of other aliens which then flank the emplacements.
-Quickly charge the gun while it's reloading (it has a long reload time), or being deployed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
These counters (granted Onos are res intensive). Flanking is always viable, poor map design aside, and is the most effective counter; attacking from an angle outside of the gun's field of fire means you get to munch on an unarmed, temporarily helpless target (while disrupting its coverage). Stealth is also a workable early game option; sneak up on the gunner and attack while the rest of the team rushes. Both methods are compounded in effectiveness with distractions. Prevention is obviously the best policy though.
I would also imagine that Emplacements wouldn't be available so early in the game short of a tech rush, given the pre-reqs for HMGs.
I would also imagine that Emplacements wouldn't be available so early in the game short of a tech rush, given the pre-reqs for HMGs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't fit these in with the NS1 tech tree. The marines are quite good at holding ground already. Maybe with new additions in NS2 you could have a nice place for them, but I still think its a little marine biased since it doesn't take much effort from the marines to sit in the gun and shoot, while the aliens are forced to organize complex flanks and try to time their pushes to the reloading time. It's a little same as the big server marine play: just do whatever you want until the beacon comes and then phase. As alien you don't have that kind of direction and it causes aliens to lose a lot of rounds.
The deployment and handling are the same, but what ever >_>
The gun still wont fit, as said by Bac, the marines have the easiest time holding ground, and this, this would slaughter the aliens if rushed by them early in game.
Like you aim the crosshair at something but the gun is slow in aiming its barrel and drags a bit behind.
this would make it easier for faster aliens
Sure you can. I don't see what's particularly difficult or complex about attacking a blind spot. Further, yes, the aliens will be getting new toys too, likely ones that will help mitigate some of the Marine's turtle power.
Secondly, the marines will have to do more than just sit in the thing and shoot. As evidenced in the mechanics of the concept, teamwork factors heavily into the effective use of the emplacement, given that they must:
A: Escort the carrier of the emplacement who is slowed, without a primary weapon and is comparatively helpless.
B: Work with other marines to optimize the emplacement's un/redeployment and reload times.
C: Work with other marines to protect vulnerable flanks uncovered by the gun.
D: Work with other marines so you've got cover while reloading and deploying.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The deployment and handling are the same, but what ever >_><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So, your automated turret is dropped by the commander as a weapon, occupies a weapon slot, and can be undeployed and moved around by marines? This is to say nothing of the other differences.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The gun still wont fit, as said by Bac, the marines have the easiest time holding ground, and this, this would slaughter the aliens if rushed by them early in game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If the aliens are stupid, rush blindly at the emplacement, and have no new toys, yes. Otherwise, no.
Hmm, I can probably get 3 of these turrets, have my mates place them there and there, making a triangle, and then, individually shoot. The marines would only have to sacrifice 4-6 rines to ruin the alien's fun, and ultimately rape any gorge coming into the other hive rooms. The comm then can start placing stuff in the rooms’ blah blah blah, the aliens get raped. Even with new toys, the aliens need more ways than flanking, not everyone is a military strategist.
Here's the thing. You don't have a primary weapon, which means, in addition to being slowed, that you are at a decisive disadvantage. Even assuming an escort, your team of marines will still be at a disadvantage assuming an equal number of Kharaa, and even if you drop the emplacement to mitigate the speed loss, you still lack a primary.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hmm, I can probably get 3 of these turrets, have my mates place them there and there, making a triangle, and then, individually shoot. The marines would only have to sacrifice 4-6 rines to ruin the alien's fun, and ultimately rape any gorge coming into the other hive rooms. The comm then can start placing stuff in the rooms’ blah blah blah, the aliens get raped. Even with new toys, the aliens need more ways than flanking, not everyone is a military strategist.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, let's see you weather the cost of 3 emplacements, and successfully deliver and deploy them at X hive location keeping in mind the slowdown, lack of primary weapon, deployment time, and an alien opposition with roughly equal resources. Best of luck. Also, keep in mind that any Marine idling on an emplacement is unproductive. Arranging emplacements in a triangle so that they cover one another is also impractical and foolish given their 180 degree field of fire limitation (this would probably mean you've less coverage of chokepoints and other vital areas), and the fact a covered emplacement's gun shields would block the majority of incoming fire were anything smaller than an Onos able to get behind one. Lastly, not even knowing what the new toys are, how would you know that more counters other than the ones I've presented (which include more than flanking) are necessary?
If 180 degree view... 3 rines would still rape and hold. The marines can escort the 3 to the 1st hive, let them deploy, drop an armory, get another 3, move to the next hive. Secure and Hold, easiest trick for marines.
The 3 rines can all have their back to each other and TA DA, 360 coverage.
Assuming the aliens are equally skilled, and have access to an equal number of resources it is indisputable the marines are at a clear disadvantage.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If 180 degree view... 3 rines would still rape and hold. The marines can escort the 3 to the 1st hive, let them deploy, drop an armory, get another 3, move to the next hive. Secure and Hold, easiest trick for marines.
The 3 rines can all have their back to each other and TA DA, 360 coverage.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Escorting 3 marines carrying 3 emplacements is a extremely deadly prospect for reasons mentioned earlier. Also, even assuming you did manage to successfully escort AND deploy the guns, each manned emplacement is vulnerable from a blind spot because bullets do not pass through friendlies and friendly structures. Secondly, the focus of coverage for each is towards the side of another gun, which means coverage of critical areas is inherently reduced. Two or three guns focused on a main entrance provides more coverage of that critical area than one.
Edit, here pic
Big black Dot=Marine And Gun
Blue=Where they CAN shoot
Red=Where they CAN'T shoot
Well since there's only 10 bullets in a clip and you need 5 to kill a skulk, I don't think you can own 3-5 skulks.
I don't think this idea is inherently unbalanced, but I'm not sure if it'd be much fun for Kharaa players as a low tier marine weapon. I could see it be something a couple marines carry with them as they escort Mobile Sieges. I see them functioning similar to TF2's minigun, but with more punch like a turret and a slower RoF.
At the same time, advantage here for the marines in a prepared holding pattern. Firepower at the expense of mobility. It forces the kharaa to be sneakier in their tactics, mandating that a full frontal assault for the Kharaa is suicide, as it should be. Marines can hold an area if organized well enough, though it becomes painfully difficult with onos and fades bouncing about. It'd be nice to encourage what marines are best at without providing an offensive edge to the marines when assaulting a hive (ok, I guess you and 5 of your buddies could deploy your weapon and take out a hive easily, but you still have to get there, which considering that your only practical weapon vs a skulk is a pistol, demands that you have considerable coverage by your teammates, much like a grenade launcher).
Of course, the Kharaa will have some new toys as well, so don't forget that. I have no doubts that this would improve gameplay and strategy without rendering the game an easy win for either side.
*thumbs up* <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/fade.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::fade::" border="0" alt="fade.gif" />
Exactly.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think this idea is inherently unbalanced, but I'm not sure if it'd be much fun for Kharaa players as a low tier marine weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see emplacements as rush friendly given that it'd require an advanced armoury, and considerable resources. In all likelihood the aliens would have their second hive up at least before meaningful deployment of this weapon became truly viable.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->At the same time, advantage here for the marines in a prepared holding pattern. Firepower at the expense of mobility. It forces the kharaa to be sneakier in their tactics, mandating that a full frontal assault for the Kharaa is suicide...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes. One of the main goals of the emplacement's concept is to encourage tactical thinking and gameplay for both sides. I think it clearly succeeds at this.