SMG Secondary Weapon
Captain Skill
Join Date: 2008-10-03 Member: 65117Members
Join Date: 2008-10-03 Member: 65117Members
<b>Concept:</b> A superior secondary weapon to the pistol, the SMG features comparable per bullet damage to the LMG, but a greater spread, and smaller clip size. This versatile gun is obviously desirable where one has a specialized primary weapon (e.g. grenade launcher, flamethrower) with a glaring weakness.
<b>Mechanics:</b>
-SMG is a secondary weapon.
-Per bullet damage roughly same as the LMG's.
-Fire rate roughly the same as the LMG's.
-Clip size smaller than the LMG.
-SMG spread is larger/less accurate than the LMG.
-Deployed by Commander.
-Costs resources.
-Requires Armoury as a prerequisite.
<b>Mechanics:</b>
-SMG is a secondary weapon.
-Per bullet damage roughly same as the LMG's.
-Fire rate roughly the same as the LMG's.
-Clip size smaller than the LMG.
-SMG spread is larger/less accurate than the LMG.
-Deployed by Commander.
-Costs resources.
-Requires Armoury as a prerequisite.
Comments
The pistol is percise, actually more damageing per bullet than the LMG bullet, and is an actual secondary weapon, maybe having this as an upgrade, or weapon drop, but it'll need alot of tweaking.
The pistol is percise, actually more damageing per bullet than the LMG bullet, and is an actual secondary weapon, maybe having this as an upgrade, or weapon drop, but it'll need alot of tweaking.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously this will be a weapon drop the Commander hands out at the cost of resources. I'm not suggesting that this replaces the pistol as standard issue equipment.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The pistol can easily rape any low level lifeforms, and SMG spam would be BETTER than the LMG, when the skulk gets close, you dont have to aim, u just SPAM, if each bullet were equel to LMG, hell, i'd drop my LMG and just use the SMG.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not necessarily, because the SMG, while having more spread also has a smaller clip size. Besides, the devs can arrive at some balanced set of properties which will make it an upgrade to the pistol, without overshadowing the LMG. Again, I present concepts and leave specifics vague and undefined because these are best arrived at through playtesting, rather than guesses, educated or otherwise.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, maybe you could give marines a little less skill oriented alternative for the secondary weapon, but as long as pistol is as powerful as it is now, there's no need for better sidearms. 200+ dmg almost instagib is huge already, I'm actually amazed how it has even been fit into the early game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The pistol is effective yes, but there are definitely times where an automatic weapon with a higher DPS/clip capacity would be preferable. Leave the stat tweaking and balancing to the devs; the fundamental concept is solid.
How would it do more DPS than the LMG? I said the SMG would have roughly comparable per bullet damage and fire rates. At long and medium range it would do notably less damage, assuming perfectly equal bullet damage and fire rates due to greater spread. Its damage over time at all ranges would be lower due to its smaller clip size (more time is spent reloading). Further, SMGs cost resources to issue.
A way of making it factual
That and I'll walk around a map with SMG, and if Target at far, LMG for snipeing.....and LMG is kinda a sniper.... but isn't
Whatever value is high enough to make it a viable weapon of power in-between the pistol and LMG is fine.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That and I'll walk around a map with SMG, and if Target at far, LMG for snipeing.....and LMG is kinda a sniper.... but isn't<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The SMG is only superior in close quarters to the LMG if you cannot track and aim, and if you can't, chances are you'll spam so much that the reload time incurred due to the smaller clipsizes will kill you anyways.
The problem here is that the pistol actually does more damage than the lmg. 200damage/sec vs 100dps
[nerd rant]The LMG is probably a .223 (in this case it actually is mislabeled and is a carbine) and the HMG is probably a .308 (although this makes it a LMG because HMGs are .50cals) This makes the pistol a .308 analog. O_o how do you fire that hand cannon so accurately again?
Any SMG caliber will be the equivalent of a bb gun by comparison.[/nerd rant]
I never said otherwise. The intent is to provide marines with the option to upgrade to a secondary weapon better than the pistol, though less effective than the LMG primary at the cost of resources.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The problem here is that the pistol actually does more damage than the lmg. 200damage/sec vs 100dps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I define power as overall effectiveness, not simply per bullet damage or DPS. However I do agree that the pistol is a bit out there in terms of its output potential.
I'm not suggesting it do nothing, but I do think it's DPS is a bit overt as compared to the marine's primary weapon. In any case, I'll leave the balancing to the devs and playtesters. The concept as an upgrade to the pistol is fundamentally sound. If I were packing something awkward to use in certain situations like a flamethrower, grenade launcher, or even that emplacement from my other thread, I'd want my secondary to be something better than the handcannon, and with a greater ammo capacity.
The SMG should be a primary and should sacrifice potential damage for a huge speed advantage. (1.5x or 2x against LMG)
The SMG should be a primary and should sacrifice potential damage for a huge speed advantage. (1.5x or 2x against LMG)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If it were a primary, that'd defeat the point. Further, if the Pistol is truly a primary weapon in practice, that should, and probably will change in NS2.
Anyway, the potential for damage on the pistol is greater because it has no fire cone, just add aim.
The NS1 weapon system should be upgraded to include a new factor, greater difference between movement speeds and movement abilities. Maybe when purchasing weapons there should be a whole new list dedicated to secondary weapons which should be available free when the correct building is constructed.
E.g.
Compact - 0 speed loss, its like you never had one. However, good luck killing anything with it.
Machine pistol - Noticeable speed loss, acceptable functionality
10mm auto - The Robocop gun marines currently have, complete with stabilization etc...
Revolver - You can see the chunks flying out of skulks, pretty heavy gun with heavy ammunition though.
Though it might be ok to have a new menu for secondary >.>
I still think the bullets shouldn't do equal damage
I still think the bullets shouldn't do equal damage<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey, sometimes you just need a little more spray and pray.
Giving options is nice, but I don't see the weapon diversity here from the standard LMG. We don't need more clones.
This idea works better in games like Dystopia where you have a great variety of starter weapons, some making the standard secondary more or less useful. Then again, we still don't have details on how the weapons system will work in NS2, so I wouldn't base everything off of how NS1 did things with weapons.
This. I love the pistol and it would be nice to see some form of it in NS2 too. If there are new guns in NS, I'd prefer to have them variate a bit on the aiming routine and use. It would be quite interesting to have similar masteries as some people have developed with shotgun in NS.
I guess giving an alternative to the present pistol is still worth considering. Right now it's really powerful on skilled hands while newbies can't do anything with it.
I like what you said about "specialist weapon holders." This is in the vein of say a GL players being able to finish off that skulk that got caught in the blast, but will kill him during the time to reload. The classic example is a rocket launcher with long reload time creates a necessity to switch to a secondary. It will, however, remain less useful for a basic lmg user, which in some ways is OK.