Different Tech/Bio Level Match Starts
CanadianWolverine
Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13249Members
Join Date: 2003-02-07 Member: 13249Members
<div class="IPBDescription">To answer the question "Why don't they send them in fully equi</div>While reading another thread the question popped into my head, not for the first time, "Why doesn't the TSA fully equip their marines from the get go?"
Now, I could have sworn I remember reading somewhere in like Six Days in Sanjii or something that it was this way because they didn't want to commit all their forces and the logistics behind that to what could possibly be feints or lost causes.
But in game terms, that meant jack squat to us other than "Get our side Resource Towers and protect them or it is GG!"
But we all know what it would mean in NS1 if either side started out with full tech or bio upgrades, that would also result in GG situation, it wouldn't be so much a game of give and take as a exercise in futility against overwhelming odds.
Well, if NS1 has been referred to as the first time these groups met up and clashed, NS2 has been described as all out war. Why wouldn't the two sides come into the conflict more prepared than before? That brings up a question of balance though.
To that end, I suggest that if a side wants to have access to their higher levels from the outset of a match, let them but have it come at a cost - say much slower resource flow in exchange for only one branch of the tech/bio tree. In a way, you could say NS1's model already does this, some games do involved teching up so you go without in other areas - well, I would propose that just be sped up a bit, so that it just seems like you get the goods at the start but it means you have to accept that you won't be able to build as much because you get a slower rate of resource accumulation and the ammount of resources you started with was lower as well.
Of course, this is all just speculation and very much open for discussion, especially since I don't really know what the Unified Resource Model has in terms of details, other than it is unified for both sides.
Now, I could have sworn I remember reading somewhere in like Six Days in Sanjii or something that it was this way because they didn't want to commit all their forces and the logistics behind that to what could possibly be feints or lost causes.
But in game terms, that meant jack squat to us other than "Get our side Resource Towers and protect them or it is GG!"
But we all know what it would mean in NS1 if either side started out with full tech or bio upgrades, that would also result in GG situation, it wouldn't be so much a game of give and take as a exercise in futility against overwhelming odds.
Well, if NS1 has been referred to as the first time these groups met up and clashed, NS2 has been described as all out war. Why wouldn't the two sides come into the conflict more prepared than before? That brings up a question of balance though.
To that end, I suggest that if a side wants to have access to their higher levels from the outset of a match, let them but have it come at a cost - say much slower resource flow in exchange for only one branch of the tech/bio tree. In a way, you could say NS1's model already does this, some games do involved teching up so you go without in other areas - well, I would propose that just be sped up a bit, so that it just seems like you get the goods at the start but it means you have to accept that you won't be able to build as much because you get a slower rate of resource accumulation and the ammount of resources you started with was lower as well.
Of course, this is all just speculation and very much open for discussion, especially since I don't really know what the Unified Resource Model has in terms of details, other than it is unified for both sides.
Comments
Having the marines the choice of, lets say....
-Heavy Assault: You start with alot of weapon and armor upgrades, even some you can't get in Normal, but everyone's slow, you get sh** income, and RT's cost abit more. No seige cannons or turrets, this is basic 'Tank Rush'.
-Normal: Normal start, everything equal, good basis and is open to all the stratagies.
-Etc: Above are just examples. Add more maybe <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
.....at the beginning and aliens have simular, this might be cool, some upgrades you only get to this game start type, but you lose alot of those upgrades, for example, Heavy Assault, you don't get MT, Cat, Turrets, seiges, RT's cost more, etc. This can be chosen by vote <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" /> Adding a 1 and 1/2 minute of vote time, and the player should easily change his vote, in the beginning to allow players to chose could be all they need <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
Some maps can disable certain beginning ups, but add new ones, basicly left all up to the LUA attached to the map. <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />
<img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/confused-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="???" border="0" alt="confused-fix.gif" />=Asking you to discuss
Something neat in Empires is that in the map/server config file you can indicate research settings. So, you may like the idea of having certain tech pre-researched, some not being available ever, etc. This creates weird games where everyone spawns and both sides have access to medium tanks from the start.
Similarly, in NS, this would mean Marines could enter with Armor1 and Weapon1 already, or that they could never research proto techs. This also helps with scalability. Smaller map? Just have 2 Hive locations and restrict Marine research cap. Bigger map, but more nodes closer to Aliens? Give Marines more starting res and some tech already done. Also, indicating how many starting nodes and started res each side gets would be awesome.
This can create cool scenarios as well. Marines caught off guard by a sudden Alien invasion. Marines happen to have some basic tech, but Aliens enter with access to Hive2 abilities and MC and DC 2 chambers each. Marines may also happen to have almost all of the res nodes already. So, it becomes a can the Marines defend long enough to keep their economy and tech up before they're overrun.
EDIT: Forgot to mention, make sure there's a notification mentioning special settings for that map/sever. Don't want people surprised that they start with Armor2 and think that's the norm.
I like the idea of voting for a different style 'Commander', not really a commander, but what the team starts with.
You can choose this 'commander' and everyone starts with Weapon2, Armor2, and Shotguns, but you can't get proto tech, this gives marines rush capability.
The aliens can counter with maybe, DI Upgrade, the DI spreads twice as fast, aliens get a speed boost, they start off with 3 MC's in the hive room, but they have low health and armor, their Defence Upgrades are changed abit, like Carapace is replaced with....something else.
Basicly, each little 'Commander' gives the team early game upgrades, makes others cheaper, makes these expensive, you get new special upgrades, but loose these upgrades. Get my drift? Go Play C&C 3:KW for more examples with Steel Talons, Travler-59, Black Hand, etc
I like the idea of voting for a different style 'Commander', not really a commander, but what the team starts with.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is this pre-match vote? So, each game you can potentially choose an overarching tech style in hopes of countering a special tech style on the other team. Interesting. Kinda like setting up a specific perk in terms of tech and such. Maybe even take interesting combination of perks.
One idea might be Rapid Collection. Your res nodes generate res faster, but each one takes longer to build and costs more upfront.
An interesting question is if you'll be notified of the other team's choices.
This would be kinda a cool variant system. Not sure about it being a core mechanic, but sounds like it has a lot of potential.
Each team gets their own 'perks', no clone opposites, but good counters.
The Map can have its own 'perks' to replace the all-known default ones, and can even have no perks at all.
The game starts with a map description, and there's a tab at the top of this box where you click to go to the vote menu, it'll say "<i>Please join team before voting.</i>" You join a team and the vote menu changes and shows you the 'perks' this map has, and how many people on your team chose what perk. Once the count down is done, you receive what 'perk' won the vote and you can play. Each 'perk' in the vote menu has two buttons next to it, Info, and Vote. Info gives you a detailed, very detailed, list of the Pro's and Con's of this 'perk'. Vote, you click it and your vote will account to that 'perk', you can easily change your vote by pressing Vote on another 'perk'.
What about lower level changes, like starting techs, speed of techs, forbid certain techs. Any thoughts? Maybe the biggest downside would be only people who slog through all the variables will make these tech specifications, while the perk system is more streamlined in a way. Different tech levels and such then would only be at LUA level?
I would rather there be a config file, though. Just makes life a little easier. Either that or a nice table in the LUA code that we can manipulate.