Marines second standart issue
La Chupacabra
Join Date: 2008-02-25 Member: 63729Members
Join Date: 2008-02-25 Member: 63729Members
This thread originates partly from Sirot's thread <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=105145" target="_blank">Marine Weapon Design Theory</a> and party from all the rest recently created topics saying: the community wants NS2 to have another weapon!
Want is known (main points):
- NS has covered all the really needed weapon types (for them not to become redundant/better than others in all circumstances), but some people don't feel that they've got enough choice, thus fun etc.
- As Sirot has nicely put it (at least that's my impression) the extra weapon slot could filled up by a rifle (an option not being covered, yet, in NS universe), which would be an spawning alternative for LMG.
- bad thing about a rifle is that it would mean redundancy of the pistol, which in NS has a completely unique function of a last resort weapon / semi-automatic sniper depending on the situation, OR is being proposed as completely overpowered weapon of scoped-mass-onos-annihilation
- another main disadvantage is that more weapons = more work for the devs!
- lasers and complex energy weapons don't really fit NS universe
What I am proposing is:
- a rifle, which can be selected as a alternative for LMG
- is not scoped, does not do massive amounts of damage
- does not make pistol redundant in terms of preferential weapon for long distances
- HAS a function which other weapons don't (without add-ons at least)
This rifle, a mix between gauss rifle / rail gun, would shoot a perfectly spherical (in theory of course) projectiles (slightly bigger than normal ammunition, but only slightly) made of glass/quartz-like material, looking like a pearl. The complexity of the projectile would allow it to bounce off walls up to 2 (or 3) times (crashes after another impact), each time decreasing the damage it deals by 1/3 (or 1/4) (maybe the gauss shooting mechanism itself is "charging", via a dynamo effect, the projectile for it to gain it's capabilities and each "bounce" causes it to loose that energy? - just a thought).
Velocity of the projectile would be very fast (not to have problems when shooting at close range), but slow enough to make it visible (not like a bullet which is not visible for the human eye) and slow enough to be able to hit a skulk (running in perpendicular manner to your line of sight) in the tail, when you were aiming at the jaw at the point of pulling the trigger on a medium distance.
The rate of fire would be shotgun-like and the damage would be slightly bigger than the pistol. Somewhere between 6-8 projectiles per clip (depending on damage) - might be a revolver like / round clip to give it a "standard issue feel" (like the side-clip in LMG) and also show the player when he can shoot again or maybe even a bullet-splitting animation like in tanks (part of the cannon going backwards to accommodate the huge force during a shot).
The projectile would not bounce off organic material, including DI.
So, at the end Marines would get an rifle, which is not a laser nor a sniper rifle, which is as accurate as the pistol, is better at clearing ventilation shafts than LMG (and capable of killing that little punk on low HP which fled around the corner with a well placed bounce off shot), but does not make pistol redundant when it comes to killing fast moving skulks and lerks over long distances. Much more work would not be involved, since NS2 will already have a bounding off mechanism for a add-on for the shotgun.
The visuals / sounds: as mentioned preferentially a gauss-like weapon, with a skeleton of tommy gun - round clip, front grip pointing downwards perpendicular to the barrel, back grip
The projectile - pearl like, may have a slight glow, may release a sparks / little flash when bouncing off a wall, glass-crushing sound on impact with organic material.
Want is known (main points):
- NS has covered all the really needed weapon types (for them not to become redundant/better than others in all circumstances), but some people don't feel that they've got enough choice, thus fun etc.
- As Sirot has nicely put it (at least that's my impression) the extra weapon slot could filled up by a rifle (an option not being covered, yet, in NS universe), which would be an spawning alternative for LMG.
- bad thing about a rifle is that it would mean redundancy of the pistol, which in NS has a completely unique function of a last resort weapon / semi-automatic sniper depending on the situation, OR is being proposed as completely overpowered weapon of scoped-mass-onos-annihilation
- another main disadvantage is that more weapons = more work for the devs!
- lasers and complex energy weapons don't really fit NS universe
What I am proposing is:
- a rifle, which can be selected as a alternative for LMG
- is not scoped, does not do massive amounts of damage
- does not make pistol redundant in terms of preferential weapon for long distances
- HAS a function which other weapons don't (without add-ons at least)
This rifle, a mix between gauss rifle / rail gun, would shoot a perfectly spherical (in theory of course) projectiles (slightly bigger than normal ammunition, but only slightly) made of glass/quartz-like material, looking like a pearl. The complexity of the projectile would allow it to bounce off walls up to 2 (or 3) times (crashes after another impact), each time decreasing the damage it deals by 1/3 (or 1/4) (maybe the gauss shooting mechanism itself is "charging", via a dynamo effect, the projectile for it to gain it's capabilities and each "bounce" causes it to loose that energy? - just a thought).
Velocity of the projectile would be very fast (not to have problems when shooting at close range), but slow enough to make it visible (not like a bullet which is not visible for the human eye) and slow enough to be able to hit a skulk (running in perpendicular manner to your line of sight) in the tail, when you were aiming at the jaw at the point of pulling the trigger on a medium distance.
The rate of fire would be shotgun-like and the damage would be slightly bigger than the pistol. Somewhere between 6-8 projectiles per clip (depending on damage) - might be a revolver like / round clip to give it a "standard issue feel" (like the side-clip in LMG) and also show the player when he can shoot again or maybe even a bullet-splitting animation like in tanks (part of the cannon going backwards to accommodate the huge force during a shot).
The projectile would not bounce off organic material, including DI.
So, at the end Marines would get an rifle, which is not a laser nor a sniper rifle, which is as accurate as the pistol, is better at clearing ventilation shafts than LMG (and capable of killing that little punk on low HP which fled around the corner with a well placed bounce off shot), but does not make pistol redundant when it comes to killing fast moving skulks and lerks over long distances. Much more work would not be involved, since NS2 will already have a bounding off mechanism for a add-on for the shotgun.
The visuals / sounds: as mentioned preferentially a gauss-like weapon, with a skeleton of tommy gun - round clip, front grip pointing downwards perpendicular to the barrel, back grip
The projectile - pearl like, may have a slight glow, may release a sparks / little flash when bouncing off a wall, glass-crushing sound on impact with organic material.
Comments
So... I present 4 solutions:
1. Automatic fire (a.k.a machinegun that shots bouncing bullets).
2. Bigger, bigger projectile! Maybe with small homing capabilities? (if it's going to miss by just 5º, reaims it's own trajectory)
3. Splash effect. And its likely to cover 1/3 of skulk's lenght to up. Maybe it could be "explosive pellets". So, if hits a wall, "explodes dealing 4x of damage", hits another, explodes 3x, hits another, 2x, hits another, explodes x and dissapear.
4. A laser sight that ricochets in the walls, showing it's trajectory (similar to the line shown in the attachment).
5. Two, three or all of them...
Edit: Look the attached file.
There are 3 repeated scenes, a shot trajectory trying to hit a <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/skulk.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::skulk::" border="0" alt="skulk.gif" />
First, angle of 22,5 misses.
Second, 45º misses.
only the third, 67,5º hits <u>bullseye</u>. This means 1-2 degree less or more and you will miss. This is on a stopped target. Imagine on a moving skulk, which is a small and fast target. And you have to take on consideration vertical bounce too? (a direct shot would benefit from perpendicular aiming, but an indirect shot...)
Without any improvement, this weapon sure should only be used in very very confined spaces such a vent.
how do lasers not fit in the NS universe? They have phase gates!
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- lasers and complex energy weapons don't really fit NS universe<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Lasers fit our universe NOW, go search for some news, we are using lasers to blow up missiles and tanks and ###### TODAY.
so of course they fit a futuristic shooter <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
What you have proposed here sounds like a over-thought flechette weapon which was mentioned in a podcast and will probably be in the game.
A shield maybe, a trappiing device.. iduno something
imagine of any scifi shoter where humans fight aliens, hollywood makes at least a few good ideas let me list some AND YOU CAN CHOOSE IF THEY FIT NS OR NOT!!!
- Starship Troopers: Nuklear Granade, blows the crap out of the whole map ^^
- Alien 2 i think: Smartgun, like a chaingun but its very heavy (hmg looks a bit toy like against this moster) and its self aiming dependig on movement of objects in its front.
- dont know wich movie: Sonicgun , can couse the alien (thay can hear as we know) extreme pain and maybe destroy
thier sens of hearing
- railgun mentioned 100 times here before but tehy do already excist with deverstating effect:
<a href="http://www.livescience.com/common/media/video.php?videoRef=080201-railgun" target="_blank">U.S. Navy Testing Railguns</a>
AND EVERYONE IS INTERISTED IN SIFI GUNS:
<a href="http://www.cracked.com/article_16477_5-famous-sci-fi-weapons-that-theyre-actually-building.html" target="_blank">CLICK HERE</a>
I think that laser weapons fit actually, but... C'mom, I know you're not talking about it but, no Kamekameha Launchers, "I'M FIRIN' MY LAZOR" bombs or Starwars's Blaster... It shouldn't look so much more futuristic than the other weapons, it should be discret in weapon design and "projectile" characteristics to not kill the atmosphere.
<!--quoteo(post=1695093:date=Dec 4 2008, 01:20 PM:name=jjr.heartfelt@hotmail.com)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jjr.heartfelt@hotmail.com @ Dec 4 2008, 01:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Instead of Gun weaponry why not think of "Melee Weaponry" ... I mean there could be something better to have then a knife.
A shield maybe, a trappiing device.. iduno something<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This could be another thread. But (MY OPNION), marines should use flamethrower as a new special melee weapon. And, talking about trapping devices, *snap the fingers* you gave me an idea to a new thread, no, two ideas!
<!--quoteo(post=1695094:date=Dec 4 2008, 02:09 PM:name=Nasdero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Nasdero @ Dec 4 2008, 02:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1695094"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>text - text - text - and more text -</b>
- Starship Troopers: Nuklear Granade, blows the crap out of the whole map ^^
- Alien 2 i think: Smartgun, like a chaingun but its very heavy (hmg looks a bit toy like against this moster) and its self aiming dependig on movement of objects in its front.
- dont know wich movie: Sonicgun , can couse the alien (thay can hear as we know) extreme pain and maybe destroy
thier sens of hearing
- railgun mentioned 100 times here before but tehy do already excist with deverstating effect:
<a href="http://www.livescience.com/common/media/video.php?videoRef=080201-railgun" target="_blank">U.S. Navy Testing Railguns</a>
AND EVERYONE IS INTERISTED IN SIFI GUNS:
<a href="http://www.cracked.com/article_16477_5-famous-sci-fi-weapons-that-theyre-actually-building.html" target="_blank">CLICK HERE</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nuclear Granades blowing up the map... lol, no win but no lose...
This "Smartgun", or "In-game implanted Aimbot" could be a add-on to the HMG (auto-aiming and, accuracy?).
Sonicgun gun looks good. But it should be discussed more: does pass through walls? What exactly kind of damage it causes? A revenge to parasite? (if you is parasited, you must die to heal. If shotted with it, must die too?)
And the real life Railgun, well, it's a siege weapon <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/siege.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="::siege::" border="0" alt="siege.gif" /> .
<b>...and, back to the real thread...</b>
This marble gun sure shouldn't explode... It will remember "something that launches explosives, useful to clear vents, corridors, buildings and chambers", a.k.a. granade launcher. This weapon should be more focused in killing fast targets to diferenciate. Bigger projectiles, automatic fire, projectiles draw into aliens when pass next to them? I think a solution to vertical angle should, that the bullet is affected to gravity, so it falls down, bounces, falls, bounces... But it bounces quite near to floor, without loosing horizontal momentum, and not counting as bouncing in wall (thus, not loosing it damage by bouncing around). Actually a very funny weapon, as it could pass from entire curved corridor and keep going
Lasers fit our universe NOW, go search for some news, we are using lasers to blow up missiles and tanks and ###### TODAY.
so of course they fit a futuristic shooter <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=";)" border="0" alt="wink-fix.gif" />
What you have proposed here sounds like a over-thought flechette weapon which was mentioned in a podcast and will probably be in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have no idea what you're talking about. You see, in order to shoot down a chemically unstable missile, a laser has to drill at the warhead for a few minutes and it has to focus on a single spot and can't be disturbed for that time. All it would take to defeat a laser would be to slap on some reflective heat resistant ceramic plating and make the missile spin as it's flying. Lasers don't have any useful real world military applications as actual weapons, anything lasers can do ballistic weapons can do infinitely better.
In the future, lasers will have no place in CQB. They might work in a vacuum with huge battleships and distances of hundreds or thousands of AUs where the speed of light is an actual advantage, even though kinetic kill drones or missiles would work a lot better. Bullets are incomparably more effective at depositing energy downrange than photon based weapons ever will be. There are no lasers that can penetrate tank armor, at least not mobile ones and not ones that have any use in actual combat. Also, instead of carrying the powerplant for your laser with you, what stops you from shooting that powerplant from a shoulder launched system if damage is what you desire? This would be a lot more energy efficient.
dude ^^ i am against laser is ns cuz in wont fit BUT :
We've been waiting for a good freaking death ray for, oh, about 70 years. So when Boeing says, " ... directed energy weapons are relevant to today's battlefield and are ready to be fielded," we pay attention.
Now, Boeing's already doing a few interesting things with laser technology on a smaller scale (like mounting devices to Humvees and using them to detonate bombs from a safe distance. They can also put a bigger one in a jumbo jet and use it to destroy incoming ICBMs from hundreds of miles away. But those are hardly death rays, right? They're reassuring defensive measures designed to protect our brave men and women!
That's where the Advanced Tactical Laser comes in.
Designed to engage (that is, utterly destroy) ground targets, the ATL is a weapon fitted to an aircraft like a C-130 transport plane. From 10,000 feet up and five miles away, this 40,000-pound, megawatt-class, chemical laser will melt a hole through a tank.
Or should we say, tanks. The ATL is intended to strike up to 100 targets in rapid succession. Oh, and the beam's silent. And invisible. One moment you're having a nice cup of coffee atop your troop transport, the next you're a smoking hole in the ground.
this is an articel you should have read ^^
We've been waiting for a good freaking death ray for, oh, about 70 years. So when Boeing says, " ... directed energy weapons are relevant to today's battlefield and are ready to be fielded," we pay attention.
Now, Boeing's already doing a few interesting things with laser technology on a smaller scale (like mounting devices to Humvees and using them to detonate bombs from a safe distance. They can also put a bigger one in a jumbo jet and use it to destroy incoming ICBMs from hundreds of miles away. But those are hardly death rays, right? They're reassuring defensive measures designed to protect our brave men and women!
That's where the Advanced Tactical Laser comes in.
Designed to engage (that is, utterly destroy) ground targets, the ATL is a weapon fitted to an aircraft like a C-130 transport plane. From 10,000 feet up and five miles away, this 40,000-pound, megawatt-class, chemical laser will melt a hole through a tank.
Or should we say, tanks. The ATL is intended to strike up to 100 targets in rapid succession. Oh, and the beam's silent. And invisible. One moment you're having a nice cup of coffee atop your troop transport, the next you're a smoking hole in the ground.
this is an articel you should have read ^^<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here is one YOU should have read:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->According to an InsideDefense.com article dated November 5, 2008 [4], there is a recent Air Force Scientific Advisory Board report that states "the Advanced Tactical Laser testbed has no operational utility." That does not mean it's not a good idea that needs further development. The Air Force Research Laboratory, is continuing to run tests and develop the platform. There is some discussion of converting to solid state lasers from the existing chemical lasers. Being much smaller and lighter, solid state lasers might be deployable on smaller platforms. The existing chemical laser platform is being used to develop more advanced control software and hardware and to reduce problems such as "jitter".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also, do you have any idea how much energy it takes to operate that thing? Just take the chemicals and throw them at the enemy, much more efficient.
A railgun type weapon would be nice, as said in another topic, a Hand Held Seige Cannon was my thought, which could actually damage aliens.