Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1697241:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Jan 6 2009, 07:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697241"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->MY biggest gripe is still with the sniper. Turn a corner, headshot, dead. You can't fight back, and you can't dodge his projectiles. Sure, you can run around like a retard and hope to throw off his aim, but the better he gets, the less useful it becomes. If he can lay his crosshairs on your head and click mouse1 at the same time, he wins, and there is nothing you can do to counter it unless you yourself are a sniper or spy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> And then you have the sniper wars, where they are seemingly in their own game seperated from the rest of the players.
I've never understood the big deal behind snipers. I tend to travel the lesser sniped roads on maps though :p
Simple fact is, the greatest snipers don't amount to more than a minor annoyance to myself and most snipers aren't that good. If I get headshot I switch class, return the favour and then go back on my merry pyro/medic way :3 Just for notesake I'm not a good sniper either, it's more that they never expect it so I get that free shot on their face and then when they're worked up about it (I taunt them good :3 ) I've gone back to my old classes and they'll probably never get another shot on me so they get to stew away impotently mwuhahahahahahaha!!!
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
<!--quoteo(post=1697246:date=Jan 6 2009, 07:38 PM:name=Geminosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Geminosity @ Jan 6 2009, 07:38 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697246"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Snipers are silly <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin-fix.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin-fix.gif" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think I fall into that silly sniper catogory, I usually snipe when I got a movie playing on me second monitor so I don't have to walk much and simply pop off a few shots to get kills while semi afk <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
They need to make the scout less at risk of dying because of stray fire and splash damage. Being able to slip through firefights and past defenses to steal the intelligence/capture the point is their specialty, and scouts take a lot of fire from random grenades and stray bullets. If they had, maybe, a +25 health overheal that recharged itself...I think that would solve the problem.
The scout is the only bit of imbalance I see: [sharp intake of breath] he's too powereful.
In competitive games, at least- where SGs aren't an issue.
It's down to the RNG: with luck he can 2-shot any class bar the heavy, even at ranges that I consider beyond short (that is, the length of a train on the mid point of badlands).
When luck is on his side and his computer rolls a 20 the scattergun feels like it gains a strange property, where by not only does he get his max damage but drop-off seems to be hugely decreased so you take 100+ damage at a distance where you think "surely only 1 or 2 pellets could hit me from here".
Thankfully the competitive scene are slowly taking up a mod called TFTrue where random numbers are removed and the mid point damage value is used. Makes a hell of a difference when you can say "right I have 150hp, this scout is kiting me, I'm gonna close in so he can't avoid my splash damage, I know what damage he can output, I've got a window of a few seconds to put him down".
Without the mod it's more like "right I have 150hp, this scout is kiting me, I'm gonna close in so he can't avoid my spl- OH GOD HE JUST DID 105 DAMAGE AT MID RANGE I'M BUGGING OUT"
Random is the methodical, smart, competitive (and public!) player's bane.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
edited January 2009
<!--quoteo(post=1697334:date=Jan 8 2009, 07:41 AM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sherpa @ Jan 8 2009, 07:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697334"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Random is the methodical, smart, competitive (and public!) player's bane.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Can't lie, even accepting crits as a valid design decision(which I do for public play) I don't understand why this is in there. Crits are to break long stalemates, that's why they have a relatively low chance of occurring and have a large dmg difference. They have the side effect of making the game less deterministic on the micro level and macro level, but I don't see that as a bonus for the micro level. Random damage just injects volatility at the micro level where there was none before, to no other gain I can see.
If the scout is too powerful in competitive play (which I would be completely ignorant about), he makes up for it by being weak in pub play. The massive random spam of explosives alone eats away at your health like a swarm of termites at a mahogany table. And don't get me started on merely-have-to-be-on-the-same-continent-to-get-killed crit rockets.
<!--quoteo(post=1697353:date=Jan 8 2009, 04:55 PM:name=lolfighter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lolfighter @ Jan 8 2009, 04:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697353"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If the scout is too powerful in competitive play (which I would be completely ignorant about), he makes up for it by being weak in pub play. The massive random spam of explosives alone eats away at your health like a swarm of termites at a mahogany table. And don't get me started on merely-have-to-be-on-the-same-continent-to-get-killed crit rockets.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's like saying steroids aren't a problem in Major League Baseball because the side effects are too severe for average people on the street. That doesn't make it any better; it just means things are twice as broken.
I don't mean that the two balance out, I mean that the scout needs some loving. Especially in pub play. Competitive play can be a broken ######heap for all I care. But I suppose that this is exactly why we're getting the scout update.
Crits is what makes the scout too weak in pubs and too strong in comp. When you don't die in a single shot (except snipers) anymore, scout lives a lot longer.
Comments
And then you have the sniper wars, where they are seemingly in their own game seperated from the rest of the players.
Simple fact is, the greatest snipers don't amount to more than a minor annoyance to myself and most snipers aren't that good. If I get headshot I switch class, return the favour and then go back on my merry pyro/medic way :3
Just for notesake I'm not a good sniper either, it's more that they never expect it so I get that free shot on their face and then when they're worked up about it (I taunt them good :3 ) I've gone back to my old classes and they'll probably never get another shot on me so they get to stew away impotently mwuhahahahahahaha!!!
Snipers are silly :D
I think I fall into that silly sniper catogory, I usually snipe when I got a movie playing on me second monitor so I don't have to walk much and simply pop off a few shots to get kills while semi afk <img src="style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tounge.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":p" border="0" alt="tounge.gif" />
In competitive games, at least- where SGs aren't an issue.
It's down to the RNG: with luck he can 2-shot any class bar the heavy, even at ranges that I consider beyond short (that is, the length of a train on the mid point of badlands).
When luck is on his side and his computer rolls a 20 the scattergun feels like it gains a strange property, where by not only does he get his max damage but drop-off seems to be hugely decreased so you take 100+ damage at a distance where you think "surely only 1 or 2 pellets could hit me from here".
Thankfully the competitive scene are slowly taking up a mod called TFTrue where random numbers are removed and the mid point damage value is used. Makes a hell of a difference when you can say "right I have 150hp, this scout is kiting me, I'm gonna close in so he can't avoid my splash damage, I know what damage he can output, I've got a window of a few seconds to put him down".
Without the mod it's more like "right I have 150hp, this scout is kiting me, I'm gonna close in so he can't avoid my spl- OH GOD HE JUST DID 105 DAMAGE AT MID RANGE I'M BUGGING OUT"
Random is the methodical, smart, competitive (and public!) player's bane.
Can't lie, even accepting crits as a valid design decision(which I do for public play) I don't understand why this is in there. Crits are to break long stalemates, that's why they have a relatively low chance of occurring and have a large dmg difference. They have the side effect of making the game less deterministic on the micro level and macro level, but I don't see that as a bonus for the micro level. Random damage just injects volatility at the micro level where there was none before, to no other gain I can see.
That's like saying steroids aren't a problem in Major League Baseball because the side effects are too severe for average people on the street. That doesn't make it any better; it just means things are twice as broken.