Suspense killing

steppin'razor · January 2009

<div class="IPBDescription">sof and mt</div>Does anyone agree with me that mt (motion tracking) and sof (scent of fear) should be not included or at least modified? I find it kills suspense, ruins "ninjas" and makes finding players far too easy. I think parasite is good enough for aliens, isn't sof an overkill? For marines, I loved the aliens (the movie) mt when one marine holds a "gun" that he points in a direction and a graphical display of movement ahead is displayed. I'm not sure how this could be implemented however as having a player dedicated to this role would be rather boring... Maybe if a player did and spots something gets an assist kill (think medic tf2)

I have always liked the idea of having a support orientated (or maybe even leader of a squad) player who heals, dishes out ammo, welds and handles the mt.

Maybe even a few different roles to pick from, support, medic, soldier (limit the amount of support and medics). Then from there when they goto the armoury they can pick from a selection catered towards their individual role. The incentive to play these other roles is the same as tf2 or bf2, where you gain points from fulfilling your individual role. Players are automatically placed into small squads, appointed a leader and the commander directly speaks to each squad leader.

sorry for digressing and venting my pipe dreams, what are your thoughts?

locallyunscene · January 2009

I think it would be cool to have it directed like <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=105326&st=0&p=1696226&#entry1696226" target="_blank">echolocation</a> and/or get false positives from DI/nanoflow

Align · January 2009

No! Don't take away my wallhack!

Radix · January 2009

Sof isn't as bad as MT.

steppin'razor · January 2009

Or perhaps MT doesn't work in infested areas, and sof only works in infested areas? Sounds like a good compromise and makes sense within the game world. MT gettings interference due to the DI and sof changes into Infestation Scent or something and is limited to the DI area.

Bacillus · January 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(steppin'razor @ Jan 15 2009, 05:00 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697711"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Or perhaps MT doesn't work in infested areas, and sof only works in infested areas? Sounds like a good compromise and makes sense within the game world. MT gettings interference due to the DI and sof changes into Infestation Scent or something and is limited to the DI area.</div>
I'd prefer to avoid too many upgrades that work only on 'home ground', it provokes defensive gameplay in general, but for a single upgrade its worth considering at least.

Radix · January 2009

There were suggestions to make a thickness of x walls block MT.

sherpa · January 2009

I'd like to see MT/SoF changed to an audio upgrade- perhaps a pinging sound when there's an enemy nearby.

The NS1 visual aid changes things up too much, no more "crap should I go down this dark corridor?"

aNytiMe · January 2009

Maybe MT should be unlocked by an advanced armory and it should pick up all movement on a map, including pre-placed map assets. When you have jetpacks/aliens have fades NS isn't really about ambushing any more.

steppin'razor · January 2009

The audio thing sounds great, but wont that alienate people with just stereo speakers etc? What lvl gear would you need to be able to harness it

Bacillus · January 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(steppin'razor @ Jan 16 2009, 02:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>The audio thing sounds great, but wont that alienate people with just stereo speakers etc? What lvl gear would you need to be able to harness it</div>
You can tell the direction relatively easy on any headphones and people used to speakers can do fairly well with them I think. Of course you could make it just a warning beep without direction too.

sherpa · January 2009

The sound shouldn't (balance pending) be directional- that would be as "game breaking" as the NS1 visual cue.

It should be a non-directional sound that simply tells you "there's an enemy somewhere nearby".

In terms of unlocks/upgrade paths it's pretty pointless to say without knowing what the devs play for NS2. I hear marines can upgrade their own gear- an audio MT cue is helpful but I wouldn't say it's tier 2/3, so maybe make the MT upgrade something marines can pick theirselves pretty early on.

Bacillus · January 2009

Hmm... Maybe have it a draining battery or something. Even knowing about movement on your capping area helps quite a bit, so it might be a little silly to have it working all round as a cheap upgrade.

locallyunscene · January 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sherpa @ Jan 16 2009, 01:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697804"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>The sound shouldn't (balance pending) be directional- that would be as "game breaking" as the NS1 visual cue.

It should be a non-directional sound that simply tells you "there's an enemy somewhere nearby".

In terms of unlocks/upgrade paths it's pretty pointless to say without knowing what the devs play for NS2. I hear marines can upgrade their own gear- an audio MT cue is helpful but I wouldn't say it's tier 2/3, so maybe make the MT upgrade something marines can pick theirselves pretty early on.</div>
I think it should be directional, but you have to aim it in the right direction. Doesn't stop things from sneaking up behind you where the "omnipresent version" would.

Emanon · January 2009

Never understood why MT worked on the entire map and not like SOF. Also didnt understand why with MT aliens showed on the minimap and it wasnt the same with SOF.

From the way things are going, they will make changes to these abilities.

Digital Terror · January 2009

If you've ever played the game Alien vs. Predator 2, the motion tracker you had in the marine campaign was good. It worked in an arc in front of you, and only to a limited range...and it also had false positives triggered by things such as a large hook swinging in the breeze. Make motion tracking an upgrade that can be purchased, and then motion tracking units can be dropped for marines. They would have to have the tracker out to use it, instead of a weapon, but could easily switch to a weapon if attacked. Since the various alien buildings always move a little bit, they would all also trigger positives on the motion tracker, making it much less useful in the DI. Oh yes, the tracker should also not show real time movement, but act more like a radar. It pings out, and anything moving is detected. A moment later, it pings again, and updates the dot locations on the tracker. No circles that marines can see through walls, just the hand held tracker display.

As for Scent of Fear, didn't the original description say something about it only detecting WOUNDED enemies? Within the DI, SoF would detect marines like normal. Outside the DI, unless a marine had damaged armor or was wounded it would not detect them at all. This would be some incentive to work together keeping everyone welded up after a fight.

NEX9 · January 2009

I don't think ether of them need to be changed, I do agree I find it annoying that marines can have MT with very little required for it its not like if they chose one tech path the next tech path takes longer they have a rather linear progression were they get there cake and eat it too. and i do fine it annoying that SoF cant see the whole map, but you work around it.

id much rather propose a system were kharra can get there cake and eat it too
Chambers arnt bound to hive, first three chambers build really quick need three chambers minimum before you can build the next three chambers which take a little longer too build, again with third chamber. if 3 of the previous two can build third chamber type just take longer to build that chamber than the send lvl chamber

cos what i see tending to happen and its my opinion that i find it annoying over all esp in pubs is there no kharra linear tech tree you choose one path and your stuck with it till your able to consume a portion of the map and hold it, its not to say i want it to be the same as marines, its just i find that being limited to one upgrade and not being able to do something on your own when only your able too is quite disappointing. but now the kharra are over powered as enemy cant disable that tech path efficiently its not like they can rush and drop the advanced armory or the obs sure in most cases marines have 2 or some times even three, but generally speaking its not unheard of for kharaa to have 5 or more of a chamber type usually with one or two hidden deep in a vent.

marines know when the kharra have SC they know when they don't and will exploit that too their full ability
what you get when kharaa have scent and this can be fixed with better chamber placement is your not likely to get every alien with scent yet every marine can beacon, can see what scan sees can see what motion sees, can use phase gates.

the thing that happens now is marines always see aliens coming, i have killed a marine know the path his objective have set up in a good ambush location, now hes only just spawned and i am already in a new even better ambush location, its even happened to me while cloaked said marine will run back there and one shot shot gun me knowing exactly were my hiding spot it and i haven't moved since 10 seconds after the last combat, the marines resed loaded up bunny hoped through the map and blown me away since hes memorized the hight of my SOF ring and my mini map dot on motion, or even worse hes walked before he gets with in hearing range and jumped out from the edge of the door on me.

the other option is i intercept his first choke point i parasite him. now theres no way i have a chance on hiding and ambushing.

you could make motion tracking fade in and out its available for 2 seconds its not available for 3 seconds
you could put it on a battery life similar to a flash light its active for 30 seconds down for 15.
right not the scent rings can be annoying they don't seam to update enough i have had marines basically standing start bunny hop out of a door and one shot me and my last scent ring on them shows them 5-6 meters away at a walking or standing pace.

those are some of the issues what ever the fixes are eh you learn you adapt you drink some cement and harden the ###### up

Okazaki · January 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Jan 16 2009, 05:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe MT should be unlocked by an advanced armory and it should pick up all movement on a map, including pre-placed map assets. When you have jetpacks/aliens have fades NS isn't really about ambushing any more.</div>

I believe this is something most ppl here are forgetting..

And also i think that there should <span style="color:#FF0000">not</span> be any big changes to <span style="color:#00FF00">MT</span>, only graphical ones and maybe.... a decrease in the range of MT ( like: XXX Meters in a radius of an <span style="color:#00FF00">obs</span> / but each obs would require the MT upgrade )

As for <span style="color:#FF0000">SoF.</span>... i've never liked it.... i think it has a very low use to the game... but i think <span style="color:#FF0000">parasite</span> is awesome.

Bacillus · January 2009

Most of all I dislike how MT makes organised alien rushes a lot more difficult to pull off. There's no way the comm won't notice 3-4 dots approaching base/PG. Obs placement, marine positioning, sound scouting and game sense are much more interesting elements than keeping an eye on dots grouping up on your map.

rsd · January 2009

Drop MT and SOF.

Kills suspense, makes rushes hard / impossible to pull off and weakens skulks by making ambushing a huge mission...

Parasite is cool.

steppin'razor · January 2009

I think revamp MT, making it less "awesome". Drop SOF and keep para.

rsd · January 2009

MT Might be cool if, as someone else suggested, marines have to be equipped with a piece of motion tracking equipment. I don't know that it would have to be a dedicated role, but it would be cool if someone had to switch to the motion tracker to use it (ie it acts like a weapon, without replacing the marine's main weapon) and it had a limited range.

frostymoose · January 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Blade01 @ Jan 19 2009, 06:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697958"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>I believe this is something most ppl here are forgetting..

And also i think that there should <span style="color:#FF0000">not</span> be any big changes to <span style="color:#00FF00">MT</span>, only graphical ones and maybe.... a decrease in the range of MT ( like: XXX Meters in a radius of an <span style="color:#00FF00">obs</span> / but each obs would require the MT upgrade )

As for <span style="color:#FF0000">SoF.</span>... i've never liked it.... i think it has a very low use to the game... but i think <span style="color:#FF0000">parasite</span> is awesome.</div>

And I believe that you're forgetting that NS2 games will not necessarily play out identical NS1. My .02c? I see no reason why ambushing (strategy, patience) should be made nearly useless by the MT upgrade. It just kills the suspense as people are saying. It doesn't fit IMO. I think defending yourself should be more about skill. As it is, MT tells you exactly where you will need to defend from.

Orox · January 2009

I had an idea last night.

It's a kind of alien's upgrade wich make a glowing path behind a marine for a short duration. I even found a name to it, could be "pheromons" or something like that !

Wait ? Wha~

EmpV · January 2009

The more I think about MT, the more I realize that it does kill <span style="color:#ADD8E6">suspense</span>. So I agree that it needs changing in NS2.

<span style="color:#48D1CC">Why not make a motion tracking add on for marine weapons?</span> Marines are going to be able to put upgrades/accessories on weapons in NS2 so why not a motion tracker? It could be an "alien movie style" display on your gun that shows motion ahead of you or it could add a radar display to the HUD. It would have a short detection range. Now you could have one player in your squad who has a motion tracker and can inform his squadmates just like in the movies, except he can still use his gun too. It would be pretty cool if the add on had a passive "team" effect so that members of your squad see a MT display on their hud when they are close to the marine with the upgrade. When he dies, the MT goes down until someone picks up his gun or add on. (<span style="color:#ADD8E6">suspense</span>)

<img src="http://retis.sssup.it/~giorgio/movies/a2-track.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

<span style="color:#48D1CC">I'm not sure if the "on screen" motion tracking should stay in for NS2 unless it's a higher tech upgrade or if it only works within
a limited range of the obs.</span> I think it was a little overpowered that you can see exactly where an alien is hiding. You should be able to determine that an alien is around the corner, but not know if he is on the floor/wall/ceiling. (<span style="color:#ADD8E6">suspense</span>)

When a marine is on DI, his motion tracker should be lit up like a Christmas tree and be useless.(<span style="color:#ADD8E6">suspense</span>) Only a nearby obs or a scanner sweep should reveal aliens on DI.

As for aliens, they have parasite which is the same as motion tracking except that every marine has to be tagged. Sensory chambers also reveal marines.

I don't think that DI should reveal marines to the alien team, but maybe there could be an option that the alien commander has where he can change an offense chamber or upgrade a sensory chamber into a <span style="color:#48D1CC">"parasite chamber"</span> that would automatically tag marines that pass close to it? Marines would have to figure out if is was a skulk that parasited them or a chamber.(<span style="color:#ADD8E6">suspense</span>)

darktimes · January 2009

let ns2 be a own game. a different game. it isnt even for sure that MT or SOF is in it.

Bacillus · January 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darktimes @ Jan 28 2009, 03:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1698750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>let ns2 be a own game. a different game. it isnt even for sure that MT or SOF is in it.</div>
1/3 old, 1/3 improved, 1/3 new. I like to discuss which elements should be improved, which kept as they are and which should be completely renewed.

w0dk4 · January 2009

I still think making MT as the MT in the AvP2 game, it would be the best possible solution. That kind of MT actually increases suspense!

steppin'razor · January 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darktimes @ Jan 29 2009, 01:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1698750"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>let ns2 be a own game. a different game. it isnt even for sure that MT or SOF is in it.</div>

thats why we are discussing what should happen in ns2

SLizer · January 2009

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aNytiMe @ Jan 16 2009, 08:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1697782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe MT should be unlocked by an advanced armory and it should pick up all movement on a map, including pre-placed map assets. When you have jetpacks/aliens have fades NS isn't really about ambushing any more.</div>

Oh! I really love those games where it goes all brutal. NS has never been a game of raw power really. And its true that at some point of the game where MT is researched it is done for aliens to not be able to organize rushes when turtling.
MT should be included in my opinion, it gives marines the strenght later on the game where you just cant shoot your way through. Audio bleeps does sound good but NS1 at least is quite heavily based on sound already, MT was there to take some of that away too

Kassinger · January 2009

Make MT a bigger investment in time/resources. Force the commander to choose between MT and something else of high value. I would love to see more hard choices already early on for the marine team, not just late game jp/ha.

Suspense killing

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