Map Editor to support HL2 .bsp files ?

Daworm

<div class="IPBDescription">Is this true?</div>I saw a comment on another site (just a user comment) that the NS2 Map Editor can support the HL2 .bsp files ?


Is this true?
If so I'll fire up Hammer and get a basic layout working for my map I have in concept at this stage....

pSyk0mAn

Noone knows for sure, but considering the engine details they've already released (dynamic lighting, occlusion culling, no compile time) I wouldn't bet on it.
But I guess it will be possible in some way to convert your map from hammer to the ns2editor (only brushwork, no texture information) at least if you detour the conversion via other programs/tools/plugins.

The question is how much brushwork is needed in an ns-map and how much will be modelled, and wether you can really use your brushworked layout without skipping most of it.


I'm curious, wether they are interested in custom textures for custom maps; at least in the alpha/beta stage regarding maps with the goal to be in some way included (maybe as mappack).

Daworm

Not too phased if it does/doesn't support textures. Only going to work on a layout... But if it could import a basic layout (no doodads) that would give me some decent lead time on making a map and just running around on a HL2 server privately with someone for general feel of it's flow :)



I feel confident with Hammer (even though I haven't used it terribly much) and got most of the way through making a map in it for Insurgency, before they broke some key gameplay features and I stopped on it in disgust. :)

Soli Deo Gloria

BSP is the format that Hammer exe's compile the map into. I don't think it would be too far fetched to have a program to convert .vmf's into their new map format. The .vmf's store information in a fairly straight forward way and in plain readable text. Here's a single brush in .vmf format:
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->solid
    {
        "id" "14687"
        side
        {
            "id" "25508"
            "plane" "(-1024 1984 512) (-1024 2048 512) (1024 2048 512)"
            "material" "DEV/DEV_MEASUREGENERIC01"
            "uaxis" "[1 0 0 0] 0.25"
            "vaxis" "[0 -1 0 0] 0.25"
            "rotation" "0"
            "lightmapscale" "16"
            "smoothing_groups" "0"
        }
        side
        {
            "id" "25507"
            "plane" "(-1024 2048 0) (-1024 1984 0) (1024 1984 0)"
            "material" "DEV/DEV_MEASUREGENERIC01"
            "uaxis" "[1 0 0 0] 0.25"
            "vaxis" "[0 -1 0 0] 0.25"
            "rotation" "0"
            "lightmapscale" "16"
            "smoothing_groups" "0"
        }
        side
        {
            "id" "25506"
            "plane" "(-1024 1984 0) (-1024 2048 0) (-1024 2048 512)"
            "material" "DEV/DEV_MEASUREGENERIC01"
            "uaxis" "[0 1 0 0] 0.25"
            "vaxis" "[0 0 -1 0] 0.25"
            "rotation" "0"
            "lightmapscale" "16"
            "smoothing_groups" "0"
        }
        side
        {
            "id" "25505"
            "plane" "(1024 2048 0) (1024 1984 0) (1024 1984 512)"
            "material" "DEV/DEV_MEASUREGENERIC01"
            "uaxis" "[0 1 0 0] 0.25"
            "vaxis" "[0 0 -1 0] 0.25"
            "rotation" "0"
            "lightmapscale" "16"
            "smoothing_groups" "0"
        }
        side
        {
            "id" "25504"
            "plane" "(-1024 2048 0) (1024 2048 0) (1024 2048 512)"
            "material" "DEV/DEV_MEASUREGENERIC01"
            "uaxis" "[1 0 0 0] 0.25"
            "vaxis" "[0 0 -1 0] 0.25"
            "rotation" "0"
            "lightmapscale" "16"
            "smoothing_groups" "0"
        }
        side
        {
            "id" "25503"
            "plane" "(1024 1984 0) (-1024 1984 0) (-1024 1984 512)"
            "material" "DEV/DEV_MEASUREWALL01A"
            "uaxis" "[1 0 0 0] 0.25"
            "vaxis" "[0 0 -1 0] 0.25"
            "rotation" "0"
            "lightmapscale" "16"
            "smoothing_groups" "0"
        }
        editor
        {
            "color" "0 163 224"
            "visgroupshown" "1"
            "visgroupautoshown" "1"
        }
    }<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->

Daworm

Well, their tools do support .vmf's... so it is possible to say it will support .bsp ?

Emoo

<!--quoteo(post=1714642:date=Jun 29 2009, 02:07 AM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daworm @ Jun 29 2009, 02:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714642"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, their tools do support .vmf's... so it is possible to say it will support .bsp ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

.vmf's are designed to be easily edited, and seeing as how the engine was originally used for source stuff it will probably support .vmf's in some way.
.bsp's are designed for real-time rendering. It strips loads of information out and makes it as easy as possible for the graphics card to draw, but that makes it very hard to edit. I don't think their map editor will load .bsp's. However there are .bsp decompilers that convert to .vmf.

Thaldarin

Who and where said the editor shall support .vmf?

Emoo

<!--quoteo(post=1714902:date=Jun 30 2009, 07:39 AM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 30 2009, 07:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who and where said the editor shall support .vmf?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No ones said, but considering that originally they were using Source it wouldn't be surprising if they had wrote the editor to use assets they had already made for the Source version. Then again they may have just made everything all over again or have some kind of converter program.

Daworm

<!--quoteo(post=1714904:date=Jun 30 2009, 10:46 PM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Jun 30 2009, 10:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714904"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No ones said, </snip><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes someone has said.

<!--quoteo(post=1714902:date=Jun 30 2009, 10:39 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 30 2009, 10:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714902"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who and where said the editor shall support .vmf?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40saY4AOcmk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40saY4AOcmk</a> - Listen from 5:20

Specifically the builder can build the VMFs into the model viewer and there-fore use it within the NS2 engine.

sherpa

If you e-stalk the NS2 mappers you'll see Source SDK is racking up a fair few hours in game time.

Could be for other projects. Could be stuff they're doing for fun. Could be for NS2 :marine:

<u>Disclaimer</u>

I do not e-stalk NS2 mappers.

<u>Edit</u>

WHERE ARE MY NS SMILEYS

Daworm

<!--quoteo(post=1714908:date=Jun 30 2009, 11:02 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ Jun 30 2009, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714908"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you e-stalk the NS2 mappers you'll see Source SDK is racking up a fair few hours in game time.

Could be for other projects. Could be stuff they're doing for fun. Could be for NS2 :marine:

<u>Disclaimer</u>

I do not e-stalk NS2 mappers.

<u>Edit</u>

WHERE ARE MY NS SMILEYS<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

haha :)

But seriously - if you can convert basic layouts of Source built maps into the NS2 engine... then I'll fire my source SDK up and getting building a basic setup with nothing overly fancy then convert it over!

pSyk0mAn

You can keep the source sdk open while doing other (non-source) stuff, because the actual tools you can start with it are eating the ressources not the "main menu" of the sdk itself.

@Daworm: I think you are confusing .vmf with .vtf/.vmt , which is a texture format also used by source.

Daworm

Weeeeellllllllllllllllll Happy for UWE devs to correct me ! :D

Would hate for a fan to assume the wrong information and then have a 2-3 or 4 page thread of bickering finer details :P
A "yes/no you can convert BSP / Source maps" is all someone needs to say :P



I'm sure they read the forums to keep abreast of discussions happening and would like to head off any uncertainty or possible misinformation from other players (hint hint)

Emoo

<!--quoteo(post=1714906:date=Jun 30 2009, 07:58 AM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daworm @ Jun 30 2009, 07:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes someone has said.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40saY4AOcmk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40saY4AOcmk</a> - Listen from 5:20

Specifically the builder can build the VMFs into the model viewer and there-fore use it within the NS2 engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

As pSyk0mAn said, that video only mentions vtfs/vmts (textures/materials) not vmfs (maps). But like I said, if there using vtfs/vmts they are probably using vmfs as well. And yes it would be nice of a developer could pop in just say if vmfs are supported :)

Crispy

<!--quoteo(post=1714923:date=Jun 30 2009, 02:43 PM:name=Emoo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Emoo @ Jun 30 2009, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714923"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As pSyk0mAn said, that video only mentions vtfs/vmts (textures/materials) not vmfs (maps). But like I said, if there using vtfs/vmts they are probably using vmfs as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I don't think that is necessarily true.

* VMFs are the map files for Source games (not just the BSP data, other settings too)
* VTFs are the textures in Valve's own format for Source games
* VMTs are just a text file describing the behavioural settings associated with a texture (VTF) of the same name, for a Source game

VTFs were always converted from more standardised formats or exported from standard software (e.g. Photoshop) using a custom plugin. VMFs were always made directly using the editor or (some parts of them could be) converted from BSP.

If somewhere they have said the engine supports conversion of BSP to their proprietory format (if they have one), then you should be able to convert BSP or (parts of) the VMF to the NS2 format (if it's not the same or very similar to begin with).

Thaldarin

<!--quoteo(post=1714906:date=Jun 30 2009, 01:58 PM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daworm @ Jun 30 2009, 01:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714906"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Specifically the builder can build the VMFs into the model viewer and there-fore use it within the NS2 engine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

In to the model viewer, so is it editable? If so how functional will it be in the new engine? Editing programs never converted to level design programs well, unless of course you were building an Unreal engine game then the model tool is your best friend as far as customisation goes.

Emoo

<!--quoteo(post=1714955:date=Jun 30 2009, 12:57 PM:name=Crispy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crispy @ Jun 30 2009, 12:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714955"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't think that is necessarily true.

* VMFs are the map files for Source games (not just the BSP data, other settings too)

*snip*

VMFs were always made directly using the editor or (some parts of them could be) converted from BSP.

If somewhere they have said the engine supports conversion of BSP to their proprietory format (if they have one), then you should be able to convert BSP or (parts of) the VMF to the NS2 format (if it's not the same or very similar to begin with).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

VMFs are NOT BSP. VMFs define brushes and shapes and entities. BSP is a tree structure used for rendering. NS2 engine probably doesnt use BSP as its using occulsion culling instead. However it still has to define brushes and models which can be done with VMFs.

Thaldarin

<!--QuoteBegin-http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/VMF+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/VMF)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Valve Map File, or VMF, is a proprietary format that stores raw (pre-compile) map data, used by the Valve Hammer Editor to save production-stage maps and prefabs. It contains information on all map brushes and entities in a script format stored with a ".vmf" extension.
VMF files are written in the same keyvalue text format that the engine uses to parse external configuration files, thus allowing them to be opened and edited in plain text.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Stores raw pre-compiled data. If memory serves me right the <insert random NS2 engine name editor here> is run-time which makes me assume that the main supported file type is not .VMF... if that even features at all.

[edit] *Calls upon Andrew, Oli, Maxx or Charlie to shed some light on the matter*

Emoo

<!--quoteo(post=1714985:date=Jun 30 2009, 05:22 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 30 2009, 05:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714985"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Stores raw pre-compiled data. If memory serves me right the <insert random NS2 engine name editor here> is run-time which makes me assume that the main supported file type is not .VMF... if that even features at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yes your probably right, I imagine they are using there own map type to make it easier to use at run time. But like I've said, they were probably origionally using vmfs and so may of made a tool to convert from vmf to there map type or built that tool straight into the editor.

<!--quoteo(post=1714985:date=Jun 30 2009, 05:22 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Jun 30 2009, 05:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1714985"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[edit] *Calls upon Andrew, Oli, Maxx or Charlie to shed some light on the matter*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Oh yes, please please please do!