Cheating in NS2
JasonC
Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68101Members
Join Date: 2009-07-10 Member: 68101Members
Here's something about having a from-scratch engine that may not have been considered before. It's going to curb cheaters very effectively, especially at first. Cheats are developed specific to the engine, and if NS2 used Source, many cheats would be a couple lines of code, and a few aim vectors away from causing chaos. It's at least going to take a month or two to develop cheats for a fresh engine, and by then, cheat counter-measures can be put into place.
Cheating wasn't that much of a problem in NS, however the occasional alien/aimbot/speedhack combo causes devastation once in a while.
Cheating wasn't that much of a problem in NS, however the occasional alien/aimbot/speedhack combo causes devastation once in a while.
Comments
their is something about NS in general that i think is a natural deterrent from allowing hacks to be super effective... it's called the OBS... and also whatever aliens have (sorry i been stacking marines for years... is it the sc that gives aliens a MT effect? ... wait no its the constant parasiting right? :P)... anyways... they work like wallhacks and this either makes it pointless to create a wallhack (since the game comes with one)... or it makes it less of a threat since at some point the entire server will be on a equal playing field... equipped with the games built in wallhacks.
Unfortunatelly this doesn't stop people from using aimbots. Once i read of a fade that got banned for using an aimbot according to the <BAD> clan forums. I think he was using it to help him blink or something onto jet packing marines... someone demo recorded it and got em banned.
So what if NS2 featured a sort of built-in aimbot. I mean it was in the movie Aliens (and according to the article, in other scifi works as well) (see: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartgun" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartgun</a> ). So ya if marines had a smart gun, and aliens had some affect similiar ( "NO DROP THE AIMBOT-CHAMBER FIRST!!! GAH A SC?!!! WE LOOSE!!!! ),... then the presance of a hacker on the server with a highquality aimbot + wallhack would be no threat at all... if you think about it...
WE NEED BUILT IN HACKS (because we want to use a gamepad but can't aim for ######)!!! SO PEOPLE DON'T MAKE THEM, and keep them for themselves!!!!
<a href="http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5082/colonialmarines4up6.jpg" target="_blank">http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5082/colo...marines4up6.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.davidmercer.com/gameDesignPortfolio/3D%20Art/zorgGunReference.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.davidmercer.com/gameDesignPortf...unReference.jpg</a>
And I'd say it would take an experienced programmer to do an aimbot on an unknown engine... 3 days top, probably less.
their is something about NS in general that i think is a natural deterrent from allowing hacks to be super effective... it's called the OBS... and also whatever aliens have (sorry i been stacking marines for years... is it the sc that gives aliens a MT effect? ... wait no its the constant parasiting right? :P)... anyways... they work like wallhacks and this either makes it pointless to create a wallhack (since the game comes with one)... or it makes it less of a threat since at some point the entire server will be on a equal playing field... equipped with the games built in wallhacks.
Unfortunatelly this doesn't stop people from using aimbots. Once i read of a fade that got banned for using an aimbot according to the <BAD> clan forums. I think he was using it to help him blink or something onto jet packing marines... someone demo recorded it and got em banned.
So what if NS2 featured a sort of built-in aimbot. I mean it was in the movie Aliens (and according to the article, in other scifi works as well) (see: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartgun" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartgun</a> ). So ya if marines had a smart gun, and aliens had some affect similiar ( "NO DROP THE AIMBOT-CHAMBER FIRST!!! GAH A SC?!!! WE LOOSE!!!! ),... then the presance of a hacker on the server with a highquality aimbot + wallhack would be no threat at all... if you think about it...
WE NEED BUILT IN HACKS (because we want to use a gamepad but can't aim for ######)!!! SO PEOPLE DON'T MAKE THEM, and keep them for themselves!!!!
<a href="http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5082/colonialmarines4up6.jpg" target="_blank">http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5082/colo...marines4up6.jpg</a>
<a href="http://www.davidmercer.com/gameDesignPortfolio/3D%20Art/zorgGunReference.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.davidmercer.com/gameDesignPortf...unReference.jpg</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm... going to have to go no with this idea. Aimbot? Don't even code in a basic possibility of this, as it CAN be exploited easier then.
Solves all the problems ;)
Causes more problems for legit players than it's worth ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fixt
Wallhacks can be effectively killed by not sending information of where enemies the player can't see are. At all.
Speedhacks can be killed by throttling the amount of data received by a server.
Aimbots... don't know. Increasing the blend-in cabability of players? [once saw a hacker being locked on a spray of a playermodell, was freakin hillarious]
Solves all the problems ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
punkbuster?
bleh! This thing cannot be turned off... it prevnts cheaters from... from... messing up my windows? wth?
No, no punkbuster plz. False-positives, does not turn off............................
Ya but what if you already preordered the game. Technically it's not on steam. It also means the NS2 servers accept players that either preordered or got it on steam... so it makes sense their would be no anti cheat features in the game (or only for people that order the game on steam)... But i bet theirs some process involved in getting VAC to identify a cheat... it's not something that just happens... i bet they gotta do signature based identification so they need to collect hacks that are being used by the community... obviously this does nothing to stop privately created hacks.
Overall... NS is not a competetitive game... it's far to hard for marines for that to occur... people just play for fun and to play around in marine start and readyroom... not for kills... (only siege maps are competitive)... i don't think it even matters if it turns into a hack fest... how much could it be corrupted from what we know of NS which is a game where you die in 3 seconds anyway.
For all we know... NS2 is so dumbed down easy that hacks are pointless to acquire... if you can kill a fade with a lmg without reloading then i don't see the need for a aimbot to track him in order to chisel away at his 200000 health with your insignificant HMG.
<img src="http://echosphere.net/star_trek_insp/insp_kobayashi_preview.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
NS2 will use steamworks. VAC should be part of that.
And I'd say it would take an experienced programmer to do an aimbot on an unknown engine... 3 days top, probably less.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You do know that HL1 comes with built in autoaim, and I believe HL2 does as well... yet not one cheat takes advantage of it.
Lol your right... and not one server enables it... but nonetheless it's easier for someone to make a aimbot from scratch then try to fiddle with getting some feature of the game working.
So ya that's reason enough we need an aimbot implemented in NS2 by the devs.
I don't see anything wrong with having a aimbot ability which the commander of the game must research and purchase so his fail team can hit some skulks. As a matter of fact... it would make total sense that it be a full fledged game option that the end-user can toggle on or off at their leisure in order to make gamepad playing more fun/practical.
It doesn't even have to be a pixel-perfect aimbot but something like a lot of console games have... AIM ASSIST. And seeing as how in NS1 you can't kill anything without several magazines... where a fade can march right through HMG fire without a scratch... what's the harm if the HMG auto lines up with the target in a semi-slow fashion... and seeing as how HMGs are inaccurate as all hell.. where you can just barely point them and achieve the same pointless effect, with all that annoying loud blank-firing machine gun sound... i just assume the game do the aiming for me.
<!--quoteo(post=1617587:date=Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Mar 28 2007, 09:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1617587"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's funny that people always think that we a) don't listen to clan players or b) don't listen to pubbers when in fact we do a lot of both.
It's not an easy balance to achieve, but we do want to make a game that will be both the best competitive game since Starcraft and also one that many people can enjoy casually without being in a clan or an experienced or knowledgeable NS player. That's the goal at least!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Built in aimbot makes total sense and the added plus is their wont be any hackers making their own hacks... even playing field... and it's easy for casual game players to play... and the focus of the game becomes teamwork... moving as a team to objectives... communicating... turn off the aimbot if you like... winning some territory is more important then killing a random fade. And you can use a gamepad to casually play. That's an all around win win situation.
I would also like to add that since all the pro fades from NS1 will be coming to NS2 to pwn the noobs that never played NS before... ya it would help if it wasn't so hard a game overall.
And this makes totally sense, since auto-moving players can't use some nasty scripts or speed hacks to be faster or to avoid being hit.
So the comm just gives waypoints and the players move there and their aimbot leaves no room for error so the commander can plan accordingly.
..and let's rename ns2 to starcraft2 .. just with the difference that it is 16vs16 and all non-commanders can spectate the automated field-units and pretend to be part of and contribute to an epic game, because they're automoving and autoaiming at enemies.
How do you know some hacks don't take advantage of this feature?
No, VAC only works for Source Engine Titles and Half Life 1 as far as I know.
Your question is totally fear induced nonsense. Why are you afraid of exactly.
If every player on the server is allowed to turn on the aimbot aim-assist mode in their options menu... does it matter if a hack makes use of the same mechanism that is freely available to everyone??? seems sort of stupid to make such a bot.
---------------
Now i'll try to answer your question another way because i think your thinking that it'll be some server option... no... i'm saying it's hard coded into the client and not toggleable off in the server in any way!... ###### the server enforcement of options. But lets assume it's like halflife 1 and halflife 2 and theirs not one server in the world with the aimbot feature turned on, in the server.... in that case... "How do you know some hacks don't take advantage of this feature?"... i can't assume that a hack maker doesn't find some easy way to enable this... but assuming he doesn't bother... he can use the same techniques he used to make other bots (which are technologically game engine independent... dll injection techniques etc)... in which case it is EASIER to NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS FEATURE.
---------------
But like i keep on saying... the aim-assist mode would be available to all players on every server to turn on or off at their (not server enforced... end-user enforced) discretion. If someone wants to roll their own aimbot... it doesn't matter... the game comes with one.
And because none of the guns are lasers (except the NS1 pistol)... then even if someone made a hack that made use of the ingame aimbot mode or made their own aimbot from the source code of an existing aimbot from another game... in the end the guns can't be laser accurate. They all have horrible accuracy... you can point that hmg at a fades forehead... right between the eyes... and fire a hundred rounds and not kill him, or entirely hit where your aiming... that is NS1.
And this makes totally sense, since auto-moving players can't use some nasty scripts or speed hacks to be faster or to avoid being hit.
So the comm just gives waypoints and the players move there and their aimbot leaves no room for error so the commander can plan accordingly.
..and let's rename ns2 to starcraft2 .. just with the difference that it is 16vs16 and all non-commanders can spectate the automated field-units and pretend to be part of and contribute to an epic game, because they're automoving and autoaiming at enemies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
post of the week
Any game with coded AI pretty much does. What's your point?
And this makes totally sense, since auto-moving players can't use some nasty scripts or speed hacks to be faster or to avoid being hit.
So the comm just gives waypoints and the players move there and their aimbot leaves no room for error so the commander can plan accordingly.
..and let's rename ns2 to starcraft2 .. just with the difference that it is 16vs16 and all non-commanders can spectate the automated field-units and pretend to be part of and contribute to an epic game, because they're automoving and autoaiming at enemies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
^^^^^^
Win !!
Ya, no it doesn't. I would never in a million years play a game where everyone had an aimbot enabled. And no, you can't "turn it off" because then you'd suck worse than your grandma. Also, while I'm at it, how much do you suck if you think the guns in NS aren't accurate enough to make aim matter? If you aim well to kill well. I think 60 rounds of an HMG kills a fade, yes? Not too good with the damage numbers but I mean, if you can't kill a fade with 100 bullets you need to go back to aimschool.
<!--quoteo(post=1716832:date=Jul 11 2009, 02:45 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FocusedWolf @ Jul 11 2009, 02:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716832"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->in order to make <b>gamepad</b> playing more fun/practical.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What?
And this makes totally sense, since auto-moving players can't use some nasty scripts or speed hacks to be faster or to avoid being hit.
So the comm just gives waypoints and the players move there and their aimbot leaves no room for error so the commander can plan accordingly.
..and let's rename ns2 to starcraft2 .. just with the difference that it is 16vs16 and all non-commanders can spectate the automated field-units and pretend to be part of and contribute to an epic game, because they're automoving and autoaiming at enemies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you are ignoring a very significant game which is very similar to natural selection. And of course i'm referring to Aliens v.s. Predator and Aliens v.s. Predator 2.
In that game you can pickup a smartgun which, yes, gives you aimbot abilities EVEN ON CLOAKED PREDATORS... It's not like a aimbot hack, you still need to move the gun around to scan a room, but it will stick to an enemy once the gun sees one near your weapons cursor... and then you just gotta get your gun sort of pointing at it for it to kill it rapidly.
----
Or ya we can do it like all of you prefer... don't integrate aimbots... remove the obs and parasite abilities... make it like a standard piece of ###### death match... let's call it CO... but no cloaking... and there ya go... then you can have your admin abuse fun with your lua scripts that scan the players harddrive and registry and take screenshots of their game to lag them to hell.
----
i was merely trying to suggest a way to make the use of hacks pointless... the game practically comes with them already in the form of the wall hack mode (motion tracker)... so adding a sort of aimbot ability was logical. In so doing this, we would NOT NEED admins to look for hackers... and hackers would be POWERLESS when fighting anyone else in the server... Now if only we could add curse words to the marines TAUNT pool so that we can avoid having the NO-BAD-LANGUAGE-OR-BAN ###### Christian [I AM] clan servers.
There no more stress... no more hackers... no more stupid server rules... no more admin abuse... the perfect game experience right.
Congratulations, mission accomplished.