Make parasites more...parasitic
Racer1
Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
In NS1, when a marine is parasited, it lets the aliens see a slightly fuzzy circle where the marine is. This is quite boring and should be improved...
First, the parasite should show where, on the body, the marine is parasited. For example, if the marine is parasited in the arm, the alien should see an arm-shaped haze, instead of a boring circle. This would be visible both through walls, and even when you are looking at the marine normally.
Second, if the marine is parasited in multiple locations, then the haze would show at those various locations on the body where they were hit.
Third, over time (one minute?), the parasite would spread to all over the body, increasing the level that the marine is "infected". At this point, the haze would be of the entire body. (Getting parasited multiple times would also increase infected level).
Fourth, as the marine is infected more, the distance from which the aliens can see the parasited marine would increase. For example, initially, a single-parasited marine might only be visible through walls at a distance of 10 meters. Once they are fully infected, the haze would be visible half way across the map.
Fifth, once the marine is fully infected, they would be able to start spreading the infection to other nearby (under 2 meters?) marines, at a rate of maybe one marine every 10-20 seconds.
Sixth, through a regimen of exercise and bed-rest, marines would be able to remove their infection -- Ok, thats going too far :)
First, the parasite should show where, on the body, the marine is parasited. For example, if the marine is parasited in the arm, the alien should see an arm-shaped haze, instead of a boring circle. This would be visible both through walls, and even when you are looking at the marine normally.
Second, if the marine is parasited in multiple locations, then the haze would show at those various locations on the body where they were hit.
Third, over time (one minute?), the parasite would spread to all over the body, increasing the level that the marine is "infected". At this point, the haze would be of the entire body. (Getting parasited multiple times would also increase infected level).
Fourth, as the marine is infected more, the distance from which the aliens can see the parasited marine would increase. For example, initially, a single-parasited marine might only be visible through walls at a distance of 10 meters. Once they are fully infected, the haze would be visible half way across the map.
Fifth, once the marine is fully infected, they would be able to start spreading the infection to other nearby (under 2 meters?) marines, at a rate of maybe one marine every 10-20 seconds.
Sixth, through a regimen of exercise and bed-rest, marines would be able to remove their infection -- Ok, thats going too far :)
Comments
But will surelly never be done due to complexity
Agreed.
<!--quoteo(post=1716776:date=Jul 11 2009, 05:45 AM:name=Gregzenegair)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Gregzenegair @ Jul 11 2009, 05:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1716776"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But will surelly never be done due to complexity<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Disagreed. L4D has full-body views* of your teammates through walls. Will it be that much harder to isolate it to a radius around where the marine was first parasited that increases in segments?
*Alien teammates should get this too. But just make the colours different. e.g. red for parasited marines and green for ally aliens.
Marines should get also get the same thing for teammates alone. Sorry to bring the post off-topic.
Agreed.
I think the ideas get worse after fourth.
Although I agree that the visual effect of parasited marines should be improved (e.g. like in Left4Dead), the parasit effecting only body parts seems like a pur visual effect at first.
Of course, it might become quite an entertaining minigame, if you add the fourth idea, because parasiting one marine multiple times and always hitting different body parts, in order to get the player fully parasited more quickly, seems fun and challenging to me.
Moreover it gives marines the choice to push faster or rush before they are visible all over the map due to their parasite spreading.
I only think that 10 meters are a little low for a start and that fully parasited marines should be visible from everywhere.
And regarding the third idea I'd like to add that multiple infected body parts shouldn't increase the spread rate of the parasite to uninfected body parts to keep up the time window for the parasite minigame.
The only problem might be that locational damage needs to added just for this one thing, so it seems like a waste of resources and rather a better thing to do for a mod.
Now i have nothing against this idea but i want health packs and armories to treat the infection... where it might take like 20 seconds to totally get rid of it. Because in NS1 i just type kill in the console when i get infected...
Having different levels of being parasited means that you can live longer without being a detriment to your team. If the aliens can't see you from across the map, it means you can stick with your team and become the bait. You can set up across from your team and lure the aliens towards you, a safe distance from the rest of your team, and while the aliens go for you, they'll be shot up by the rest of your team.
I don't think the spreading of the "infection" is a good idea as being parasited isn't an infection. You have a parasite in you. AFAIK, parasites typically are not infectious.
Disagree. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taenia_(tapeworm)" target="_blank">Tapeworm</a>.
All you need is a lifeform that's able to incubate in a human and spreads through small distances of air.
If you are parasited its slowly increasing to your model's outlines - nice!
But spreading needs to be announced by some sort of slighty noticeable fog.
Since NS seems to be the Star Craft 3D Mod I read once I would say marines should die when the Infection spreads.
Note: Infection shouldnt be announced to a Marine until he's close to death and starts to feel sick (distorted view, uncoordinated movements, fail fire)
This is a pretty awesome idea, but then it got a little carried away.
What I think should be done is everything up until the 4th addition. Having other players become parasited just by being next to the parasited players is going to end up giving the aliens an almost constant location marker for every marine. What you overlooked here is simply that this is a very teamwork dependent game. Very rarely can a player be a successful rambo player.
I'm sure that NS2 is going to require a lot more teamwork than in NS1, because NS2 is a lot more advertised and anyone new to the game that are anticipating it are RTS players who also play first person shooters. You never have a "rambo player" in an RTS... I don't think it's even possible. From what I hear, they are making this game a little more RTS based than NS1, because of all the new additions to the game: dynamic infestation, blocked doors that only the onos can take down, etc.
I really like the idea of having the parasite grow on the player. However, I think it would be hard to implement. It makes perfect sense though. If he get's parasited on a foot or a leg or a torso, there should be a little orb outlining the area around the infected area, not just a goofy looking circle like in NS1 that doesn't really look fluid. And the longer the person is parasited, the more visible he becomes because his whole body is outlined by the parasite.
I don't like the fact that a player would be visible from farther distances because that's superfluous if you're already having the parasite infect the entire model. Think about it this way, when the person is first parasited he only has a small infected area. Other players at the other side of the map are going to have a harder time spotting the parasited marine because it's a very small infected area. The closer you get to the marine, the more visible his parasite becomes. In addition, the longer the person is parasited, the more you can see the parasite on the marine, thus allowing other players on the alien team to be able to see him with more ease on the opposite part of the map.
I really would like to see this in NS2. Cool idea dude.
So either make it where the skulk has to aim at the marines face to infect them or just keep it like in NS1 where you just tagged them... like tagging in bad company where you can tag a enemy tank and your team sees it on the minimap and ingame hud.
Overall i hate parasites... even the few times i played on alien team i found it annoying to have all these little ball things clogging up my games view... It really is annoying... maybe they need to make it more like a thin strip on the top of the monitor almost like a gradient bar where, being close to a tagged player shows up as a highlight in the gradient with respect to your point of direction... sort of like a ingame compass you see in NeoTokyo... but no North South Easy West... just a changing gradient with changing starts and stops for tagged players in your view where it indicates distances by either being a blurry or sharp highlight in the gradient. That would make it easy for skulks to determine close and far enemies instead of a cluster ###### of little circles all over your HUD.
Would make for a neat transition as infect marines walked out from behide walls.
This is so evil and twisted that I think it's a great idea. I would love it if this could be done in such a way that aliens could use it tactically (like devour vs HA) but anything I think of right of the top of my head would be abused and unbalanced.
However, rare and random occurances of this would be enough to make every parasited marine feel like they're a ticking time bomb (like the guy in Alien Resurection.. WHAT'S INSIDE ME!?!?)
Any aliens should be allowed to drop these.
I don't think I have the words to describe how awesome an idea this is.
The chance would have to be exceedingly low, and there would need to be some way of curing it (even a difficult one)
But still, I really like this idea
The chance would have to be exceedingly low, and there would need to be some way of curing it (even a difficult one)
But still, I really like this idea<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I just thought of a way that aliens can use this without making it unbalanced....
When getting wiped out, Marines have "beacon"
Give the Hive commander a similar power. Call it... "Hyperspawn". When hyperspawn is activated, for the next 10 seconds, all parasited marines that are killed have players instantly spawn out of them.
Imagine a hive rush scenario with that feature. Marines... most of them if not all with parasites... push for hive killing half the team. As the rest of the team rushes to defend, they're picked off one by one. Hive Commander hits "HYPERSPAWN"... Skulk spawns at hive like normal.... gets a lucky kill on a parasited marine.... BAM! SKULK JUMPS OUT!... another skulk spawns normally from hive.... 2 more kills.. BAM two more skulks! MAYHEM!
Very different to beacon, but used for the same reason. Also can be a kind of "Alien Ninja Rush". Converse to the "loan marine near hive that builds a PG", the aliens could all rush the marine start, and when they start dying, hit HYPER SPAWN! Then for the next 10 seconds, any dead players spawn out of parasited marines that get killed.
I think it could be every bit as deadly as a PG ninja/beacon can be... and every bit as FAIL as a beacon/pg ninja can be in any given situation.
At that point, the marine can be played exactly as a normal marine would expect to be played with the equipment and weapon provided, except friendly fire is on and that marine can inflict damage to the marine team and any structures. That player wouldn't be able to weld or pick up med/ammo packs, but he would be able to use ladders (from what I've understood the Kharaa in NS2 won't be able to use ladders generally speaking). I think a slight health degeneration is in order to oblige the player to take action (something like 1 hp every 3 seconds or so or 5 minutes for marine starting at 100 hp). The marine player that was thrown in observation mode would respawn normally as if he had died once the alien had taken over his body (nothing lame like taking up player slots).
I think the only way at that point for marines to notice would be one of three ways.
1) You can shoot the infected marine and it will of course take friendly fire damage (though if I had it my way, servers would allow friendly fire and so this would not be an accurate way to tell).
2) If you're diligent, you'd notice the player name and realize he is an alien player.
3) Probably the most obvious of ways, make a minor graphics change to the model such as a bloody face or vacant face or something similar. Nothing so obvious that it would be easy to notice (particularly from behind or from the side), but something you could spot if you were paying attention and facing the player head-on.
Most likely the player whose body the alien just assumed would quickly announce it to the team, so I'd imagine strategy for an alien player in such conditions would be one of two:
1) Take advantage of the situation and attack immediately before anyone notices.
2) Escape and attempt to infiltrate the marine team unnoticed in another part of the map in such a way as to be able to sabotage as many marines or as many marine structures as possible (my personal pick).
In either case, from an external point of view, you see a marine start shooting you or your teammates due to a parasite or run off to the alien lair due to the parasite. I think it'd add a creepy aspect to the game. If you did it like this, not only do I think it would kick ass but I think it would be balanced if done correctly and bring in sales for being such a kick ass feature. Sort of adds another layer of stealth for the Kharaa team, one which isn't met by the marine team (so yay points for asymmetry!).
This reminds me of UFO - Enemy Unknown (XCOM in the US). Those unfamiliar... The player character could "possess" an alien. Hillarity ensues. Game was designed so that you could move and shoot, but not reload or access the inventory, so it was disruptive but not in an END GAME type way.
In NS context, I like the practicality of the idea, but one thing that bothers me is A: It can't be so accessible a feature as to become unbalancing, and B: Being that it can't become accessible/unbalancing, I regret it will be a "annoying feature" rather than a gameplay mechanic/strategy. Doesn't mean the idea can't be refined of course.
Obviously what I like about spawning as a skulk is that it's SO "James Cameron". Also, in my previous concept, it becomes a valid tactic that gives Aliens the *option* for base defence and base attack, different but comparable to marine options. Not nearly as powerful, but better than the current NS1 "no options". Also my suggestion doesn't rob a player of his control (core complaint against Devour) since he only becomes a spawn point IF he's parasited AND he's killed AND the Hive is beaconing at that moment.
A player must be able to do something about it, which then takes time out of his shooting and building duties. Even devour has a semi-counter where your buddies need to help you out.
I remember their used to be a mod that made it so if you were parasited you could go to an advanced armory and hold 'use' for 5 seconds, a small blue loading bar would apear in the low middle of your screen and once completed, the parasite was removed and a green cloud (like the lerk's spore, but no damage) apeared and VWALA, parasite removed. This would be an easy counter to this and it would add more strategy:
Early game before advanced armory is avaliable the alien team could parasite rush and get all the players parasited in hope for this.
Also, if a marine is far up in the battlefield and far away from an advanced armory and gets parasited he would have to choose to risk being taken over or go all the way back to get the parasite removed.
Of course you could also just make it so a medkit heals this, but that would be boring . . .
Welders. They're handed out to seldom before the stomptrain (heavys) is rolling out anyway. No, you can't welder your own face.
Also, marines should only know there's an infection with faint features in the face (kerrigan anyone?), while the com gets a warning when an infected goes near an obs.
[Voice: Warning, infected tissue detected!]
Just a small notification, nothing overly disturbing.
If anything, make it a HA tiered upgrade.
So HA = base
Parasitic detection = upgrade
That kinda idea, could add more features to the HA's then.. but only 1 upgrade per HA is available.
Early game before advanced armory is avaliable the alien team could parasite rush and get all the players parasited in hope for this.
Also, if a marine is far up in the battlefield and far away from an advanced armory and gets parasited he would have to choose to risk being taken over or go all the way back to get the parasite removed.
Of course you could also just make it so a medkit heals this, but that would be boring . . .<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you're exaggerating the strategy part heavily: Running back is rarely worth it because you'll just get parasited again by any smart alien team. You can have the same effect by suiciding in most cases anyway, with the travel and 5 second delay it might actually be quicker to just type kill in the console.
The little advantage it offers is that you might be able to sneak to an ambush spot and get a lifeform kill due to a good block or something, but then again you could do it almost the same even without any parasite removal.
Any smart alien team parasites every marine anyway, there is no such thing as 'parasite rush'.
I think everyone realizes this... That is why we're coming up with rules that balance it out. If you were paying attention you will have seen:
* Parasiting only spawns skulks when the player is naturally killed, and the Hive Commander has hit "beacon" less than 10seconds ago
* Parasiting only kills marines and spawns skulks rarely (So rarely it isn't useful as a tactic)
* Parasiting doesn't kill, it posseses (This one needs more discussion on balance)
Posting "This is a bad idea, it will be unbalanced" doesn't help anyone. If that's true, then you're stating the obvious. If it's not true, you're being a troll.
If you must post in the negative, at least put some thought in to why the idea sucks and make a suggestion as to what would make the idea possible
From a technical standpoint, it's the equivalent of having a small possibility for a parasited marine to die and an alien player spawning as a marine with all his armor and weapons at the time of death.
From a technical standpoint, it's the equivalent of having a small possibility for a parasited marine to die and an alien player spawning as a marine with all his armor and weapons at the time of death.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Which is fine I think. It makes being parasited a creepy situation, and doesn't "OMG EXPLOIT" kill the gameplay. Unfortunately it says "Gimmic" to me more than "gameplay"
I'd like for a feature like this to be usable as a tactic (without being exploitable), so the alien team would need to have some ability to make it happen when it's convenient (and still be couter-able/balanced).
Maybe something like.... The Hive commander is the one that can possess a parasited marine. This automatically limits the effectiveness because only 1 possession can happen at any given time. Balance it further by making "possessing" an upgrade... or only effective within range of an SC. Better still, make it so that a commander can possess a marine that is 30 feet from an OC. However, at 30 feet, the link is weak, and only some of the "commands" the commander makes actually work. This would basically make it hard for the player to aim etc, but not take total control away. Within 15feet of an OC, the alien commander takes over all movement, you (may or may not) be sent to respawn, but maybe the commander do things like reload/drop weapon/switch weapon etc. Maybe have a timer so that possession lasts 20 seconds max, then you get to go back in your body. Regain control, or treat it as a death... both have merit... maybe give the player the choice.... when possessed, wait and see, or just rage-respawn?
The counter? Kill the SC's... drop your weapon at the first sign of being possessed.... /kill in console... Make it so that if you're killed while being possessed, the hive commander is penalized (maybe the synaptic shock of dying disables the commander interface, OR disables all SC's (or all chambers) for 20 seconds.... Make it so that having an OBS nearby distupts mind control, and perhaps slowly kills parasites (Camping the OBS cures you over 30 seconds, not really worth the effort for most of the game, but lets marines have the option to create a field hospital near a hive to prepare for a parasite free rush)
Maybe include both features? One hit timed possession by the hive commander, and using marines as a parasite spawn point (Only when "beaconing", only in vicinity of hive, only by already dead players, only with certain other conditions met)
I like the idea, though I don't think there should be a counter. I mean, you could say that devour had a counter by killing the onos, but come on. That's not really a counter, and the penalty was extreme for the marine. To be put out of the game for 20 seconds for an ability that any onos could use for any marine..
If we're talking about a hive commander which can possess a marine, perhaps we should limit who can be possessed by distance to a hive or sensory chamber, but at that point, I think the possession should be permanent or until the hive commander chooses to leave. Make it cost 30 resources and the hive commander can take possession of any marine in range of a sensory chamber and hive. Sensory chambers would have to exist to be able to do it, and the amount of sensory chambers determines the amount of time in which the hive commander can remain possessed of the marine.
The possessed marine would respawn as if he had died. Once the time expires for possessing the marine or when the hive commander choose to leave, the marine collapses and dies. And, I think to prevent abuse, it is essential to add a recharge timer to allow at least a minute wait between possessions.