[Forum Trolling] The two step forward, one step back method.
<div class="IPBDescription">Really, whats with all the hate?</div><i>Honestly, a lot of the forum topics that I have been lurking in have turned into a mud slinging contest. A bath for the trolls, I will not name them. I honestly don't care, but it makes me regret coming to this forum. Every Idea I come across is filled with at least three people who drag it down to hell by its shins because they don't agree with it to the fullest extent of their being. Why do people refuse to give a idea a chance to breath. Why do you feel the game should be catered just to you just for your ease and nobody else, like the argument about devour.
"omfg its boring, I take too long to respawn, remove! DELETE DELETE DELETE!"
I am probably going to get flamed for this, because I dont carry that 'one of us, one of us' aspect mentality of the herd of trolls and "Nay-Sayers" that have in my opinion infested this forum. The new saying of some of these people should be, "If it dosent go pew pew faster, it is a disaster" - "If it isn't flashy, we give no cashy." I can't wait to be crucified by someone for speaking out, someone will comment about my grammar, or a spelling mistake I have may have made, or they will just post and not have read, or even not even focused on the topic at hand which is: <b> Why all the hate? </b>
I'm personally sick of it, and I'm wondering. Why is this allowed to go on, do the developers or moderators not see how many half decent ideas are getting pummeled to death with rocks? If they do, or don't. I really cant say; I do know they are too busy to deal with the likes of the type of people that have infested their own forum. The developers are working hard to produce something for you, the people. Yet you wont let half decent ideas flourish further unless its written like an essay with a bunch of bold titles in it. Not everyone is a professional.</i>
"omfg its boring, I take too long to respawn, remove! DELETE DELETE DELETE!"
I am probably going to get flamed for this, because I dont carry that 'one of us, one of us' aspect mentality of the herd of trolls and "Nay-Sayers" that have in my opinion infested this forum. The new saying of some of these people should be, "If it dosent go pew pew faster, it is a disaster" - "If it isn't flashy, we give no cashy." I can't wait to be crucified by someone for speaking out, someone will comment about my grammar, or a spelling mistake I have may have made, or they will just post and not have read, or even not even focused on the topic at hand which is: <b> Why all the hate? </b>
I'm personally sick of it, and I'm wondering. Why is this allowed to go on, do the developers or moderators not see how many half decent ideas are getting pummeled to death with rocks? If they do, or don't. I really cant say; I do know they are too busy to deal with the likes of the type of people that have infested their own forum. The developers are working hard to produce something for you, the people. Yet you wont let half decent ideas flourish further unless its written like an essay with a bunch of bold titles in it. Not everyone is a professional.</i>
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Comments
Granted, this isn't the nicest way to say it, but still those ppl are entitled to their opinion.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b> Why all the hate? </b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed, why all the hate towards trolls, that you incidently throw together with a group of people sharing similar interests regarding ns(2) features, considering your remarks about some of the "trolls" and their opinions...oh sorry, hate/trolling in your words.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm personally sick of it, and I'm wondering. Why is this allowed to go on, do the developers or moderators not see how many half decent ideas are getting pummeled to death with rocks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Afaik they said some time ago that they barely read I&S, because they've got the game mapped out in their mind and their own ideas to work on.
took me awhile to find the quote I was looking for
Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood.
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm personally sick of it, and I'm wondering. Why is this allowed to go on, do the developers or moderators not see how many half decent ideas are getting pummeled to death with rocks?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am sure the devs have just as many great ideas (if not many more) than we do. Once the game is released and we can actually see how it works, the community will get a much clearer picture of what ideas/features would be genuinely helpful. Most ideas coming from the community currently are based off snippets of information, we don't have the full picture yet so its hard to say how useful something is without even playing the game.
Pretty much the catch cry of why quality of games is in serious decline... Games are more often released to the the lowest common demoninator, in a direct attempt to "appeal to a wider audience".
And hey... it happens everywhere. Movies being a prime example. If you're in it just to make money, then success... you win! You've found the secret formula of capitalism! WINRAR IS YOU!
If you're in it to make a great product then you have my respect... and money... because your "game being made for the sake of making a great game" is the only type I'm paying money for.
My point is, the Original NS was, at release, a quality mod that pushed the HL engine beyond anything that I had thought possible. The guys who did that were clearly interested in making a great game for the sake of making a great game.
If these guys don't deserve high expectations for making a quality over qantity, then no one does.
That's why I would be surprised if "OMG I DON'T LIKE CHANGE TAKE IT OUT PEW PEW" posts register on their radar at all. If they were interested in keeping what people are comfortable with, we wouldn't be playing NS1.
because people almost never say anything constructive.
instead, there's a handful regulars that visit each thread and give their thumbs up or down.
but to what purpose? the devs are the ones deciding in the end, and i'm sure they're not basing it on the votes of these individuals.
There's a nice medium now- there was a load of trolling in the early days, then admins got overzealous and things were getting locked when they shouldn't; now current admins are excellent- they sit back and act passively- only taking action when they should.
But anyway if you think this is trolling go take a look at a C-S forum or a WoW forum. Even the QuakeLive forum is myred in s***.
There's a nice medium now- there was a load of trolling in the early days, then admins got overzealous and things were getting locked when they shouldn't; now current admins are excellent- they sit back and act passively- only taking action when they should.
But anyway if you think this is trolling go take a look at a C-S forum or a WoW forum. Even the QuakeLive forum is myred in s***.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All the forum trolling is carefully planned out in the IRC channel.
~~Sickle~~
because people almost never say anything constructive.
instead, there's a handful regulars that visit each thread and give their thumbs up or down.
but to what purpose? the devs are the ones deciding in the end, and i'm sure they're not basing it on the votes of these individuals.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i> I know, that's why I have been lurking around for so long. I just got sick of sitting in silence. While I know the devs are busy there needs to be some moderation done within the forum, I know that possibly the devs don't have the time needed to tag down every threat made, or rock slung. Though why give people like that free reign, the free reign to suffocate ideas with a pillow. I honestly wish people who stand in some form of neutrality would be enlisted as a mod to help us out.
Though as much as me and apparently a "few" people wanted devour to stay, also want more moderation within the forums.</i>
<!--QuoteBegin-steppin'razor+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steppin'razor)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->took me awhile to find the quote I was looking for
Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood.
H. L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Love the quote, I even used it as my signature. It makes a bit of sense to me. Thank you for responding openly.</i>
<!--QuoteBegin-Avata+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Avata)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you're in it to make a great product then you have my respect... and money... because your "game being made for the sake of making a great game" is the only type I'm paying money for.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>The only reason I bought the special was to show my respect for what they did in the past, and in hopes that they remain the same type of individual anomaly. The opposite of huge cooperate games who try to flesh in everybody using gimmicks and other things that will draw in a mass market of people. Even though there are a few changes I myself do not like, I still feel ukw is definitely that gleaming staple of individuality among a cluster of markets that basically disguise a few flashy explosions and tag a game label onto it.</i>
<!--QuoteBegin-pSyk0mAn+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Indeed, why all the hate towards trolls, that you incidently throw together with a group of people sharing similar interests regarding ns(2) features, considering your remarks about some of the "trolls" and their opinions...oh sorry, hate/trolling in your words.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>I'll ask you another question. When is enough, "enough" for you, for them, for me? I have no group, I am a individual. Though apparently enough any and all individualism is bad, some people want to support the herd, or "Mob" like mentality they view going on around the forums.</i>
It depends a lot on how you read stuff too. It's the internet, and it's all text, so we're merely guessing people's mood and tone of voice. Granted, sometimes it's fairly clear that someone is being a bit harsh, but don't mind them, they probably just had a bad day at work or something. :)
And when it comes to nay-saying, sometimes there are legitimate concerns. Like in your own example with devour, even though it is great fun for the onos player, it comes with a cost both gameplaywise and for the player being devoured. Sure it's hard to get your idea shot down, but that how the anonymous world works, just don't invest emotionally.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><i>I'll ask you another question. When is enough, "enough" for you, for them, for me? I have no group, I am a individual. Though apparently enough any and all individualism is bad, some people want to support the herd, or "Mob" like mentality they view going on around the forums.</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hey, don't assume that <i>everyone else</i> is the "herd" or the "mob". We, <i>everyone else</i> that is, think of ourselves as individuals who come up with our own conclusions. It just happens that people influence each other and sometimes agree. We're all individuals, I see no mobs around here.
We're all the same, just different.
post of the week for this alone.
In the end, I think the I&S forum is mainly a waste of time but it's fun to post in and read none the less.
In the end, I think the I&S forum is mainly a waste of time but it's fun to post in and read none the less.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Yes, and often people do defend their own. Though defending it isn't enough, because some people will stab at them instead. Its not me, its my observations of other people. I happen to see people who if some other people try to go with the idea, they get shot down as well.
I also agree, its kinda late to try the I&S forum to get any form of idea heard, but its still fun to reply :)</i>
<!--QuoteBegin-Kassinger+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kassinger)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It depends a lot on how you read stuff too. It's the internet, and it's all text, so we're merely guessing people's mood and tone of voice. Granted, sometimes it's fairly clear that someone is being a bit harsh, but don't mind them, they probably just had a bad day at work or something. :)
And when it comes to nay-saying, sometimes there are legitimate concerns. Like in your own example with devour, even though it is great fun for the onos player, it comes with a cost both gameplaywise and for the player being devoured. Sure it's hard to get your idea shot down, but that how the anonymous world works, just don't invest emotionally.
Hey, don't assume that everyone else is the "herd" or the "mob". We, everyone else that is, think of ourselves as individuals who come up with our own conclusions. It just happens that people influence each other and sometimes agree. We're all individuals, I see no mobs around here.
We're all the same, just different.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Yea, but I'm referring to people who specifically are trying to draw blood with their text. Its painfully obvious in some ways, while there are legitimate concerns to what these nay-sayers are saying. Some extremities are not needed to be shown to get the desired result, like taking pot shots at your fellow forum user for trying to be creative and unique. Who cares if its a pile of crap, its a idea. Give them a cookie, criticize and move on. Though some people, don't. some people feel like it is their sworn duties to lob off the topics legs before it gets even a running start. Even if its already headed over a cliff.
I'm not assuming everyone else is, because your not. I'm not, a lot of people aren't, but surely you notice a few out there. People who see one person saying something bad, and then are influenced by that to further dive the topic into the abyss.</i>
<!--quoteo(post=1718333:date=Jul 21 2009, 12:09 AM:name=PseudoKnight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PseudoKnight @ Jul 21 2009, 12:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1718333"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's somewhat of a learned behavior. People are so used to bad ideas that they're quick on the trigger, even if the ideas are thought through.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>That's part of the mentality I'm talking about. Weren't they taught by their parents "If you ain't got anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"? I'm not saying that if its a bad idea, don't make a post shouting it to the heavens. But I'm talking about when it turns ugly, when people aim their drama cannons at each other.</i>
Although there are still some insanely silly ideas I will just have to say no to. i.e. electrified, regenerative armour
Sure, even if you ignore someone, they'll still drag down your topic, but atleast you'll feel a little better not knowing what trash their throwing at you.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?act=UserCP&CODE=ignore" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...amp;CODE=ignore</a>
I can't wait to be crucified by someone for speaking out, someone will comment about my grammar. </i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean "breathe." I will degrade you by criticizing your grammar, and will thus ignore your post. =)
Jokes aside, I think most people would agree that trolls are stupid-heads, and people need to give ideas a chance. It's because of all those lamers that we may NEVER see gorge-mounted lasers, or a secret, playable robot class.
Sim racing game forums are known for their maturity? Really?
But if I were to be serious, please don't italicize your entire posts. They make it harder to read and does give off a bad vibe. Now...if only that guy who always wrote "~scythe~" or something similar was around. I need to tell him doing that was redundant since we have user names, signatures and avatars in our fine forum.
Although there are still some insanely silly ideas I will just have to say no to. i.e. electrified, regenerative armour<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Yea, I'll agree that a lot of the ideas are very baseless. Right now anyway; though once alpha comes out I can imagine otherwise. Right now however, I do agree that it would be hard to tell how it will effect a game that hasn't even been in its alpha yet. It just dosent make sense to me why people would slab a bullseye onto someones head and aim at them every which way to tag them to the walls because of their imaginative minds. Misguided, though you have to agree 'some' of it may be well thought out. Not saying all ideas are good, I'll admit that some ideas are just plain silly. Ideas My 8 year old brother could have thought of. </i>
<!--QuoteBegin-Khaze+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Khaze)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thankfully, I've discovered the Ignore function of the forums long ago, and I'm not afraid to use it. Works wonders on every forum I've visited.
Sure, even if you ignore someone, they'll still drag down your topic, but atleast you'll feel a little better not knowing what trash their throwing at you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i>Yea, though ignoring someone on your end as you've stated dose not alleviate the problem at hand. Its basically putting a blind fold on, while someone aims a gun at you in public. Chances are, you will die. In that type of scenario, while I wouldn't want it to happen at all... I'd rather see it coming.</i>
<!--QuoteBegin-PseudoKnight+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PseudoKnight)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You shouldn't italicize your whole post. That's just annoying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i> Glad you think so, have a cookie. This is the way I submit what I type into forums. I've been doing it for years, and my response stays the same. If Italics is hard to read or annoying for you. You may need glasses.</i>
<!--QuoteBegin-Sirot+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sirot)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->In the spirit of crushing ideas, this thread is technically unrelated to NS2.
But if I were to be serious, please don't italicize your entire posts. They make it harder to read and does give off a bad vibe. Now...if only that guy who always wrote "~scythe~" or something similar was around. I need to tell him doing that was redundant since we have user names, signatures and avatars in our fine forum.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<i> I Believe its half and half, Its about the general people of the NS2 forum. Some people have gone off on a tangent, like talking about me writing in Italics, or sims racing. Though some of that may have a point. Since you said it in a nicer way, I'll give a nice response: I really don't see how it makes things hard to read, I have poor eyesight and I can easily read my posts :/. Either way, on every forum that I have been on I either use Italics or a different font. I mean when I'm not attempting to goof off. </i>
Two main factors lead to I&S being the scumbucket it currently is:
1) Literally 98% of the ideas have been suggested before. I'm not talking last week, I'm talking seven years ago in the leadup to NS1. It's just a stream of continually rehashed and slightly tweaked ideas from history.
2) None of the admin staff feel comfortable about locking threads that get out of control, for fear of this being misconstrued as support or dissent of a particular idea. None of the admin staff have the jurisdiction to decide whether an idea or suggestion is considered by the dev team, so we are very, very careful about any signals we may send, however oblique.
I applaud your sentiment, but I'm afraid you're trying to put to track a horse that should've been put to pasture a long time ago.
--Scythe--
This isn't a NS forum problem, that is a life problem
And he is not saying them out when he is typing them.
<u>Only in the IC forums.</u>
~~Sickle~~
I highlighted that point with ninji and he told me to "eat a cookie" and just trolled.
Scythe has pretty much hit the mark with I'd say the number being around 75%. I'm sorry but just because I can find fault in an idea and test someone's idea by criticising it does not mean I am trolling or making it worse, I'm simply testing it. If you can't take criticism or realise when something is not as good as you perceived then refrain from posting your ideas.
As briktal said all the 'trolling' is perfectly planned on IRC. Tesseract and I have gone in to greater depth of discussion on bad topics which are useless we've encountered, then good topics we've encountered of which were main in NS2 General Discussion which have now been phased to I & S.
Scythe has pretty much hit the mark with I'd say the number being around 75%. I'm sorry but just because I can find fault in an idea and test someone's idea by criticising it does not mean I am trolling or making it worse, I'm simply testing it. If you can't take criticism or realise when something is not as good as you perceived then refrain from posting your ideas.
As briktal said all the 'trolling' is perfectly planned on IRC. Tesseract and I have gone in to greater depth of discussion on bad topics which are useless we've encountered, then good topics we've encountered of which were main in NS2 General Discussion which have now been phased to I & S.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--sql--><div class='sqltop'>SQL</div><div class='sqlmain'><!--sql1-->Do not forget that idea you posted once so you could make fun of all the people who supported it, then something <span style='color:orange'>like</span> that w<span style='color:green'>as</span> announced. Also you probably shouldn't post when you are drugged out <span style='color:blue'>and</span> about to sleep. <!--sql2--></div><!--sql3-->
~~Sickle~~