No Focus
MuYeah
Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59261Members
Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59261Members
This ability is dumb and overpowered, especially in combination with 2 hive aliens. It seems like it was added as a quick fix to replacing pheromones during the 3.0 betas. Yes, it is a good counter to jetpacks but honestly its not a lot harder to bite twice on a jp than once with a leaping skulk, and dying in one shot from something you can't even see is incredibly frustrating. I know personally it just isn't fun to use SC as hive one as a skulk because you either one shot a marine or move too slowly towards them and are killing. It is very much an all or nothing ability. Not to mention it's damn well overpowered at hive two (while admittedly fun as aliens) in combination with MCs due to spore spam and celerity aliens being able to easily outrun jetpacks.
The problem lies in that SCs are only good because of this ability. If it weren't in the game nobody would take SC as an sg/obs strat would destroy it early game and then all that's left is a simple tech to JPs to finish (if the game even reaches that point).
It is a complicated chamber to balance because it hinges so much on its synergy with movement chambers. Without MC, JP marines can totally dominate 2 hive aliens because they simple cant reach them due to the speed differences. With MC, the only hope marines have is teching HA because of spore spam and locking down the third hive and going for an incredibly slow game trying to take over the map one node at a time which is quite frankly very boring.
Will add more later...
The problem lies in that SCs are only good because of this ability. If it weren't in the game nobody would take SC as an sg/obs strat would destroy it early game and then all that's left is a simple tech to JPs to finish (if the game even reaches that point).
It is a complicated chamber to balance because it hinges so much on its synergy with movement chambers. Without MC, JP marines can totally dominate 2 hive aliens because they simple cant reach them due to the speed differences. With MC, the only hope marines have is teching HA because of spore spam and locking down the third hive and going for an incredibly slow game trying to take over the map one node at a time which is quite frankly very boring.
Will add more later...
Comments
Also, you are assuming NS2 is going to be a copy and paste of NS1 -- It's not. This really isnt relevant at all. We dont even know if SC will have same upgrades, if focus will allow 1-hit kills, how aliens damage compares to marine health, etc etc.
Also, you are assuming NS2 is going to be a copy and paste of NS1 -- It's not. This really isnt relevant at all. We dont even know if SC will have same upgrades, if focus will allow 1-hit kills, how aliens damage compares to marine health, etc etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I can guarantee it's not lack of skill.
I partitially agree that focus is quite ridiculous, but then again DC is only picked for cara and cara fades are ridiculously tough at some occassions. I think the whole chamber system needs a big rework.
And if it makes you feel better I'll phrase my point like this instead: Don't include an ability that can one-shot a player that is incredibly easy to use and don't include an ability that is so much better than all the other abilities of the same tier level.
You Euros always seemed to have a better Alien game than Marine game. In the US, after 3.2, Marines could often just hold nodes, drop JP/HMG, and the Aliens could get vaporized if they tried to go in for hits. The cheaper JP, reduced Alien armor, and lowered Fade acceleration really made a large impact on this.
and you mentioned euro games: I always had the feeling on euro servers marines win more often than aliens, opposite of american servers.
I think Focus is really a skill issue. Pro people can abuse it, whereas noobs tend to charge in and get mowed down trying to one hit.
I do think there could have been a better, easier to balance skill that maybe could have been implemented instead of it, but thats what makes a game a game. It's small interesting attributes that make it super.
And really, you can still mow down marines with a few armour upgrades.
and you mentioned euro games: I always had the feeling on euro servers marines win more often than aliens, opposite of american servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it's pretty damn balanced.
*I never had a problem with focus. Yes, there's some ownage for like two minutes while Marine team reacts by researching more armor.
*You complain about one shot kills yet no one here has a problem with shotguns which can totally own skulks early game and it much more difficult for the aliens to react to such and attack.
*I don't have a problem with either as that is the great things about the RTS element in NS. If you make the right tech tree decision you gain an edge of the other team while they react with their tech creating a back and fort effect.
<!--quoteo(post=1721767:date=Aug 10 2009, 02:26 AM:name=Tek Jansen)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tek Jansen @ Aug 10 2009, 02:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1721767"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've always hated Focus just because it makes absolutely no sense as an evolutionary upgrade even for an advanced bacteria that modifies lifeforms incredibly quickly. Carapace makes sense, evolving external bone seems feasible. Celerity works, stronger muscles giving greater speed and all, scent of fear works, alien animals evolving better glands in the nose ... but Focus, and I'll admit I don't know how they explained in that background canon guide the NS site once had, but how does slowing down your bite/claw etc give it so much more power?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh come on! Really?
Focus can simply mean specialized stronger muscles which require a longer reset time. And evolving silence doesn't bother you? What about teleportation?
Anyway I couldn't care less as long as it makes gameplay sense.
and you mentioned euro games: I always had the feeling on euro servers marines win more often than aliens, opposite of american servers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was talking about competitive play.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile</a>
ok about that I dont know (neither euro nor american) but I can guess that marines win like 80% of all good matches.
anyway uwe try (at least i hope so) to create a bridge between public play and competitive. Nowadays the only difference
in NS1 is, that aliens have no tactics in public (marines most of the time have due to their commander) and player numbers differ.
Maybe thats the reason why marines win so often now also in public, because people just got better in aiming, less noobs are playing
and the skulk is too weak in early game. Even with celerity and perfect bunny hoping good marines are able to hit skulks often enough
to kill them before they make a second bite. making skulks slowlier (bad marines can hit more often) and giving them more hitpoints (good marines need longer to kill them) is a good way to go.
well, the thread is about focus so sorry about going of topic, all i wanted to say is: will focus still fit in the game with leap at hive 1? skulks are more robust (ok and slowlier but they have leap) AND could have the possibility for 1 hit kills. in NS1 such changes would mean that every skulk is a small fade, now imagine 30 seconds in the game (after SCs are built up), marines have no upgrades and are facing an army of fades :)
But dont misunderstand this post. Its intended to be a warning, I asume that the chmaber system (at least the upgrades) will become rearranged and the general balance in NS2 will not be comparable to NS1. NS1 is just the only reference for anyone at the moment
I think it's still good to discuss which elements should definitely be left out from the game. We've got so little idea of what the game will be that almost any kind of serious discussion is irrelevant unless it's based loosely on NS1.
If it totally denied healing it would be totally overpowered no healing and effects such as Spore Etc marines would be forced to get HA or turtle also how would the Devs explain it? I personally think it should just leave a Dot for 5-10 seconds. The damage over time would mitigate alot of healing with out it being either a instagib or complete healing denial.
If it totally denied healing it would be totally overpowered no healing and effects such as Spore Etc marines would be forced to get HA or turtle also how would the Devs explain it? I personally think it should just leave a Dot for 5-10 seconds. The damage over time would mitigate alot of healing with out it being either a instagib or complete healing denial.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Speaking of NS1 terms, focus does 2 things: It negates the medspam and provides easy 1 kill hits.
Of course the effect wouldn't be permanent. The duration of the effect itself doesn't have to be that long, just a second or two so that the alien can land another heal preventing hit.
Meanwhile DoT does add more cost to the medding, but has no way of negating it. The lifeform still has to leave hp for escape if he wants to play it safe.
The system could be explained by some kind of momentarily nanite interference.
NS2 most likely doesn't have at least similar medspam feature, but I still find it interesting to see how the upgrades could've been improved in NS1.
why would the aliens have not the ability to one-shot marines too ?
All the more so if you miss your bite you are a dead alien...
why would the aliens have not the ability to one-shot marines too ?
All the more so if you miss your bite you are a dead alien...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
true
As far as it being in NS2, I fully support that. I did always have problems with it's catagorization as a sensory ability. Like, "wha?". Don't see how that is sensoricalizationed at all.