11 Shots To Kill Marine In Heavy Armor
Ravlin
Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8197Members
Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8197Members
<div class="IPBDescription">11 shots of acid rocket by Fade</div> For all those people saying, that Fade killed them with 3 shots (or any other small number).
We tested it. On server (1.01 patch) with showing damage in numbers.
Marine: Heavy armor (100 health and 260 armor)
Fade: adrenaline, regeneration, acid rocket attack used , two hives
For each shot there was a number of -59 showed (which is just one under 60, the damage in manual)
I needed 11 shots to kill him. We were both standing against each other and not moving.
It wasn't taking him those 59 point but something smaller.
We tested it. On server (1.01 patch) with showing damage in numbers.
Marine: Heavy armor (100 health and 260 armor)
Fade: adrenaline, regeneration, acid rocket attack used , two hives
For each shot there was a number of -59 showed (which is just one under 60, the damage in manual)
I needed 11 shots to kill him. We were both standing against each other and not moving.
It wasn't taking him those 59 point but something smaller.
Comments
As I have had first hand experience of being killed/ killing a marine in HA with a fade
<5 shots to take me/them down
Maybe u should check again
One: What level of armor did they have?
Two: Were they welded up before you ran this test?
Marine: heavy armor (100 health, 200 armor)
Fade: acid rocket
It took my 9 shots to kill him. I have repeated it for three times and always the same. 9 shots.
I was watching two monitors (one was runnig the marine and the other was running Fade).
I'm runnig the game at LAN right now, so if you have any suggetions what should be tested just write it.
Fade: acid rocket (only 2 hives, no upgrades)
Marine: heavy armor with 1 level armor upgrade (100 health, 230 armor)
10 shots were neede to kill him
----------------------------------------------------
Marine: heavy armor with 2 level armor upgade (100 health, 260 armor)
11 shots to kill him
-----------------------------------------------------
Marine : heavy armor with 3 level armor upgrade (100 health, 290 armor)
12 shots to kill him
Now what do you say to this. Are the marines still the weak?
Could you test it the other way around?
Like how many LMG clips and/or how many HMG bullets (150 minus the ammunition left in the gun)?
No clue whether it's true or not, but that seems to be the common consensus.
It was the same 9, 10, 11 and 12 shots for each stage.
Now the other thing - HMG vs Fade
I will also try to measure it in seconds.
Fade: 100 health and 125 armor (2 hives, NO upgrades)
Marine: heavy machine gun (NO upgrades, just the basic)
I only needed 25 bullets ou of 150 to kill him (some 2 seconds).
To kill a Fade with level 3 Carapace upgrade and 3 hives i neede 50 bullets (some 4 seconds).
So what do you say? 29 seconds against 4 seconds?
Who is weaker? Aliens or marines?
Thank you ravlin for the insightful math. Sometimes numbers speak louder than words, or something.
Remember this, Get a Fade Carapace people! And make sure to build D towers first so the fade can heal. You know how much easier it is to kill HA guys then?
and the HMG shoots rather wildly so 25 bullets doesn't always hit
To kil a marine in HA (100 health and 290 armor)
it took 6 attacks (the first one) to kill him and it was pushing him away so I had to track him.
To kill marine without HA I needed only two attacks.
To kill Onos (500 health, 150 armor) with heavy machine gun (HMG) I needed only 110 shots and he died !!!
To kill Onos (500 health, 200 armor - level 3 Carapace) with HMG (level 3 upgrade in Arms lab)
I used only 75 bullets (5 seconds !!!!) and that is incredible!
How you can say that Onos are too much powerfull.
To kil a marine in HA (100 health and 290 armor)
it took 6 attacks (the first one) to kill him and it was pushing him away so I had to track him.
To kill marine without HA I needed only two attacks.
To kill Onos (500 health, 150 armor) with heavy machine gun (HMG) I needed only 110 shots and he died !!!
To kill Onos (500 health, 200 armor - level 3 Carapace) with HMG (level 3 upgrade in Arms lab)
I used only 75 bullets (5 seconds !!!!) and that is incredible!
How you can say that Onos are too much powerfull.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
reason I don't play onos <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo-->
Also something to Fade's acid rocket. It is hard to hit marines even when they are in HA. MArines can easily evade incoming acid rockets, but fades can no so easily evade HMG fire.
So some hint. When Fade use either Adrenaline (when attacking from distance - not very good against marines bu superb against turrets) od Celerity (and take those marines in hand-to-hand combat -> really good).
On destroying turrets: use Fade with Adrenaline, Regeneration and Cloacking. Close on turrets throw some bile bombs (or acid rockets, they have also good splash area) and retreat. If needed, wait to heal up (regeneration) and then again attack those turrets. This way we were able with 2 Fades to take out 30 turrets in some 15 minutes. Be on alert before marines (especially with grenade launchers). Perhaps have some Onos to drive those marines back to their base (they are only good for this).
To take out marines outposts in hive areas (Turret factory, 5 turrets, 2 Siege turrets) use Skulk and go fast after that Turret factory.
Whit this tactics it didn't look it is very hard when playing aliens.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
15 minutes is too long, you and the other fade could have killed it in only 5.
Sorry edit: As long as no phase gate, otherwise your best chance is those acid rockets/bile bombs.
I laugh at non-HA marines w/HMG when I'm a fade
So, for a HA marine without armor upgrades, those nine shots can come in less than 5-6 seconds. The HA marine also moves slowly, so not only is he easier to hit, it's easier to elude him should the HA marine shoot back.
Right now, the best tactics to keep fades from being a problem is to oumaneuver them thus preventing them from running to heal (often that unkillable fade is actually near death from your attack, but he runs to get healed) or to kill the second hive.
Frankly, I see many commanders take things too nonchalantly after they secure the first hive. Instead of pressing for a quick attack on another hive, they sit back trying to secure every resource nozzle, all the while the entire alien team are becoming fades.
* If you have a HMG, you have the damage per second advantage, and the closer you are, the less you miss, the more of an advantage it is. GET CLOSE. You can sometimes kill it before it can claw you to death, with no armor, if you have heavy armor you can ALWAYS kill it before it kills you.
* If you have HMG + HA the WORST POSSIBLE THING you can do is let it get far away and start throwing acid rockets at it. If that happens, hide aound the corner and pop out as it approaches and chase it down firing until it dies. Never try to play the long range game with a fade. It will win. Use your HMG like a welder!
also regarding the fades projectiles, try to see if it works better to deliberately miss the marine and hit the wall next to them instead of hitting them directly.
also you need to test if grenades do any damage to alien buildings.
also, and this one seems ridiculous, you need to test that the hitboxes for all the different player models are different shapes and not the same as the basic marine like someone claimed.
It should be noted, though, that the <!--emo&::siege::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'><!--endemo--> in the holoroom were firing two or three times before they managed to take out a resourcer in the lobby, but after the third shot they began doing full damage.
also regarding the fades projectiles, try to see if it works better to deliberately miss the marine and hit the wall next to them instead of hitting them directly.
also you need to test if grenades do any damage to alien buildings.
also, and this one seems ridiculous, you need to test that the hitboxes for all the different player models are different shapes and not the same as the basic marine like someone claimed.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thanks for those ideas. I will try them. I'm also intrested what will happen.
To hitboxes. Marine in HA can be sometime invulnerable against offensive chambers. I wrote about it in Invulnerable Marines topic (also with some pictures showing it in action).
That thing with crouching, I'm also interested if this is true (and how often it happens).
I don't know the time, but acid rocket is making a damage of 60 and slash is making damage of 80 so you can kill him much quicker this way. Also slashing doesn't take so much energy as acid rocket.
But I will try to measure how much seconds is needed to kill him.