Don't aliens already hear humans calling for medpacks/ammo/etc already in NS1? How come no one complains about that?
What do you mean no squad system? There was one in NS1 and devs said there will be an improved auto-squad system thing in NS2. Although that was like over an age ago (let's call it the source age). NS2 needs squads... at least it needs squad five!
I normally don't really give a (bleep) about lore. But for those that do... Aren't the Kharaa like one big smart unified consciousness hive mind thing? If that's the case, then I think it would make sense for the Kharaa to figure out human speech after years of fighting them. However they could still need to evolve their hearing on a alien per alien basis to be able to hear our speech. Sound distortion would be cool if they can pull off the effect well enough (the all or nothing approach could also work). Also localizing streaming audio in 3D space could be a fun little engine writing challenge for Max (if it hasn't been done already). It makes sense for alien to be able to hear humans talking from a lore point of view.
Now continue the discussion from a gameplay perspective, the one that matters.
<!--quoteo(post=1729430:date=Sep 28 2009, 05:59 PM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Sep 28 2009, 05:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes, we = me (except upside down and backwards)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->lol'd
<!--quoteo(post=1729412:date=Sep 28 2009, 10:39 PM:name=-Diesel-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (-Diesel- @ Sep 28 2009, 10:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729412"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No you are misunderstanding me.
I am 100% for teamwork.
The Aliens should hear the Humans voices as a incoherent babble that only measures pitch when they are speaking on their local/radio voice. The reason for this is.. like i said, that aliens shouldn't be able to hear what humans say and be able to make sense out of it. That would destroy the teamwork because the aliens will always know what the human team is doing. Imagine that, aliens that understand english. Pretty stupid if you ask me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Let's say, 3 skulks want to ambush. Are they able to use the voice chat without revealing the position and breaking the ambush? In organised play people sometimes use a quick ready-set-go to trigger a rush to marines, with a radius voice it could be used in public games too. I can't see those working effectively with your sound effect system.
On marines I don't want to reveal whether there are 2 or 4 marines building that PG next to the hive. It's a tricky call for a fade at that point unless he can hear the radio chatter or has the parasites at his disposal.
Those are just very general examples. Most of the time that incomprehensible chatter is just enough to make voice comm harmful.
<!--quoteo(post=1729513:date=Sep 28 2009, 11:52 PM:name=Bacillus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bacillus @ Sep 28 2009, 11:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729513"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Let's say, 3 skulks want to ambush. Are they able to use the voice chat without revealing the position and breaking the ambush? In organised play people sometimes use a quick ready-set-go to trigger a rush to marines, with a radius voice it could be used in public games too. I can't see those working effectively with your sound effect system.
On marines I don't want to reveal whether there are 2 or 4 marines building that PG next to the hive. It's a tricky call for a fade at that point unless he can hear the radio chatter or has the parasites at his disposal.
Those are just very general examples. Most of the time that incomprehensible chatter is just enough to make voice comm harmful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that is not for me to decide.
I just suggested that marines and khaara should be able to use localized voice chat. Then the topic of hearing each other came up and then I just made some suggestions.
The main topic is the localized voice chat though.
I like localized voice chat-... In games where it makes sense, having it in a game with futuristic marines who have holo-huds on their helmets, just doesn't make much sense to me. However, I would be good with a squad based VOIP and a server wide VOIP. Though I have thought of a way to get localized VOIP into the game (I didn't read the whole thread just skimmed it, so if I'm repeating an idea, my apologies). When marines enter a grid that is without power, it could be made so that the VOIP is only local at that point. I feel it makes the most sense (Due to loss of power) and would increase the immersion of the game.
As for the "Not being able to understand the other team", I completely agree. I think that if you just made it so some Sims-esque (Less stupid sounding) garbled voice for the Marines and then of course, some low growling like noise, it would work out fine. Now hopefully, there will already be ambient sounds of aliens from time to time with only a few very minor differences from alien player sounds, that way ambushes and such aren't given away as easily. It only makes sense to me that if someone is communicating with other players of their team, and that person is around the enemy team, the other team should be able to at least hear that there <i>is</i> an enemy somewhere in their vicinity.
PS: I don't know if you know this Diesel, but squads will be formed automatically from surrounding players. So it's still pretty close to local chat, just more teamwork friendly if there is a squad VOIP.
<!--quoteo(post=1729867:date=Sep 30 2009, 11:53 AM:name=EnragedPlatypus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (EnragedPlatypus @ Sep 30 2009, 11:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729867"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like localized voice chat-... In games where it makes sense, having it in a game with futuristic marines who have holo-huds on their helmets, just doesn't make much sense to me. However, I would be good with a squad based VOIP and a server wide VOIP. Though I have thought of a way to get localized VOIP into the game (I didn't read the whole thread just skimmed it, so if I'm repeating an idea, my apologies). When marines enter a grid that is without power, it could be made so that the VOIP is only local at that point. I feel it makes the most sense (Due to loss of power) and would increase the immersion of the game.
As for the "Not being able to understand the other team", I completely agree. I think that if you just made it so some Sims-esque (Less stupid sounding) garbled voice for the Marines and then of course, some low growling like noise, it would work out fine. Now hopefully, there will already be ambient sounds of aliens from time to time with only a few very minor differences from alien player sounds, that way ambushes and such aren't given away as easily. It only makes sense to me that if someone is communicating with other players of their team, and that person is around the enemy team, the other team should be able to at least hear that there <i>is</i> an enemy somewhere in their vicinity.
PS: I don't know if you know this Diesel, but squads will be formed automatically from surrounding players. So it's still pretty close to local chat, just more teamwork friendly if there is a squad VOIP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, get off the realism bull######. Game concepts are inspired by the real world, not limited by it.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->p.s. Humans don't "talk" in the future? How is this ###### not realist?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--quoteo(post=1729888:date=Sep 30 2009, 04:54 PM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Sep 30 2009, 04:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729888"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wow, get off the realism bull######. Game concepts are inspired by the real world, not limited by it.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->p.s. Humans don't "talk" in the future? How is this ###### not realist?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where the hell do I say humans don't talk in the future?
If you're referring to my first statement, what I meant by that is that why would marines be limited to only being able to speak to people near by, when they have comm systems linked to the commander/other marines.
As for the "realism bull****". How am I on realism, for a game based on the future? I'm talking about immersion, which is far different from realism and very important for many games... If you can point out one limiting thing, with the exception of not being able to communicate with your team when off the power grid, then please do so. All of the suggestions I've made, are simply to make teamwork more prevalent and natural. If you're against that, then you may want to stick with NS1's Combat game mode...
Well, after reading through all this conversation I have gone from thinking localized chat might be interesting, to thinking it might be an interesting "spying mechanic". However, now that the arguments have rolled out a bit longer and I have seen what most people have to say I am convinced that the chat system should be left as it is. You can talk to your team, the other team can't hear you. You should probably leave in the "I'm talking" icon over a persons head, but make it invisible to the other team. That's it. People on your team can see if your talking and between that and the very simple and effective method of saying a persons in-game name if you want to talk to them directly I really don't see a good reason to have local chat. You need to talk to your team to promote good team play. Any kind of hindrance to that WILL hinder team play. So no spying. No trying to hit the "right" button to talk to your squad while a skulks trying to eat you. It seems to me it would be BETTER if your whole team knows what's going on anyway. I mean sometimes you get a guy who is just saying way to much and clogging the chat channel but that can happen in a smaller squad as well. What exactly is the disadvantage if your whole team knows what your doing?
Best option in my opinion: just a nice simple, push a button talk to your team. In a fast paced combat game, there really isn't room for much else. It's a team game. Talk to your team.
<!--quoteo(post=1729946:date=Oct 1 2009, 01:36 AM:name=ShadowedEclipse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ShadowedEclipse @ Oct 1 2009, 01:36 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729946"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It seems to me it would be BETTER if your whole team knows what's going on anyway. I mean sometimes you get a guy who is just saying way to much and clogging the chat channel but that can happen in a smaller squad as well. What exactly is the disadvantage if your whole team knows what your doing?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, there's nothing wrong with the system that basically every game uses, I just get reminded of whenever I play any game with just team VOIP and how it can get annoying (Especially in a game like Natural Selection) when you hear "Behind you!" over it and you're forced to turn around (Which seems to be the exact moment an Onos with 4 Fades riding it decide to come from the opposite direction I end up looking). Having automatic squads based on proximity, mixed with a squad only VOIP would (in my opinion) partly eliminate that. Not to mention, in the event that a Squad and Team VOIP system was implemented, people <i>could</i> choose to simply only use the key for speaking to the whole team, if they're really that bothered with having two different keys.
Granted, I do enjoy a tactical play quite a bit more than a fast paced lonewolf streak (not saying you don't like team play, just stating how much I like it :P), so maybe that's why I like the idea of a Squad based and Team based VOIP more than just team VOIP.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
I'm okay with having a localized voice chat option, meaning a button that lets you talk only to your squad if you want, as long as team-wide chat is still there.
<!--quoteo(post=1729970:date=Oct 1 2009, 08:08 AM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Oct 1 2009, 08:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729970"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm okay with having a localized voice chat option, meaning a button that lets you talk only to your squad if you want, as long as team-wide chat is still there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That would be called squad chat. Localized is when you are able to speak to anybody who is in close proximity to you... whether they are in your squad or just a guy you bump into.
locallyunsceneFeeder of TrollsJoin Date: 2002-12-25Member: 11528Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1730085:date=Oct 1 2009, 05:48 PM:name=-Diesel-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (-Diesel- @ Oct 1 2009, 05:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730085"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That would be called squad chat. Localized is when you are able to speak to anybody who is in close proximity to you... whether they are in your squad or just a guy you bump into.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> When squads are formed through localization I'd say they're pretty much synonymous.
<!--quoteo(post=1730453:date=Oct 3 2009, 10:03 AM:name=ShadowedEclipse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ShadowedEclipse @ Oct 3 2009, 10:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730453"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now THERE is a good idea. When the comm speak, it should override everyone else.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only problem would be if some spamming noob got into it.
<!--quoteo(post=1730460:date=Oct 3 2009, 04:12 PM:name=-Diesel-)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (-Diesel- @ Oct 3 2009, 04:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730460"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Only problem would be if some spamming noob got into it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well if you have a noob comm that is really gonna take advantage of the chat system your probably screwed to the point where voice chat spam is the least of your worries. However that's where the mute function and comm vote kick functions come in, and I do hope they make a return.
A nice feature to add would be the ability to speak to nearby marines with voice chat. As in if you speak only people who are near you will be able to hear. A sort of localized chat that only people and aliens that are close to you can hear. Not a squad system like BF2 or Quake wars.. That doesn't work. A localized chat that people can hear in their relative distance to you. So when you are running around you don't clog the main team chat up when you want to tell the person next to you something. Then you can use the team chat for stuff that the entire team should hear.
What do you guys think? It would make the gameplay much better. Seeing as nothing like this has been made successfully yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this feature would be very hindering to the team. however, I think this would be a brilliant punishment to either the Human or alien team that get their communications network knocked out :D. Realistic target to go after to disrupt the enemy.
<!--quoteo(post=1730961:date=Oct 6 2009, 02:02 AM:name=N3MES1S)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (N3MES1S @ Oct 6 2009, 02:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730961"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think this feature would be very hindering to the team. however, I think this would be a brilliant punishment to either the Human or alien team that get their communications network knocked out :D. Realistic target to go after to disrupt the enemy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It isn't hindering, since there is also a main team voice chat.
<!--quoteo(post=1730885:date=Oct 5 2009, 05:37 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Oct 5 2009, 05:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730885"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Squads never have and never will work in games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really. Give them an easy way to spawn with their squad and you can often get very good squads sticking together.
Comments
The aliens ears don't work the same frequency as ours do??<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
reason: we like it that way
we as in you?
yes, we = me (except upside down and backwards)
What do you mean no squad system? There was one in NS1 and devs said there will be an improved auto-squad system thing in NS2. Although that was like over an age ago (let's call it the source age). NS2 needs squads... at least it needs squad five!
I normally don't really give a (bleep) about lore. But for those that do... Aren't the Kharaa like one big smart unified consciousness hive mind thing? If that's the case, then I think it would make sense for the Kharaa to figure out human speech after years of fighting them. However they could still need to evolve their hearing on a alien per alien basis to be able to hear our speech. Sound distortion would be cool if they can pull off the effect well enough (the all or nothing approach could also work). Also localizing streaming audio in 3D space could be a fun little engine writing challenge for Max (if it hasn't been done already). It makes sense for alien to be able to hear humans talking from a lore point of view.
Now continue the discussion from a gameplay perspective, the one that matters.
<!--quoteo(post=1729430:date=Sep 28 2009, 05:59 PM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Sep 28 2009, 05:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729430"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->yes, we = me (except upside down and backwards)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->lol'd
I am 100% for teamwork.
The Aliens should hear the Humans voices as a incoherent babble that only measures pitch when they are speaking on their local/radio voice. The reason for this is.. like i said, that aliens shouldn't be able to hear what humans say and be able to make sense out of it. That would destroy the teamwork because the aliens will always know what the human team is doing. Imagine that, aliens that understand english. Pretty stupid if you ask me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's say, 3 skulks want to ambush. Are they able to use the voice chat without revealing the position and breaking the ambush? In organised play people sometimes use a quick ready-set-go to trigger a rush to marines, with a radius voice it could be used in public games too. I can't see those working effectively with your sound effect system.
On marines I don't want to reveal whether there are 2 or 4 marines building that PG next to the hive. It's a tricky call for a fade at that point unless he can hear the radio chatter or has the parasites at his disposal.
Those are just very general examples. Most of the time that incomprehensible chatter is just enough to make voice comm harmful.
On marines I don't want to reveal whether there are 2 or 4 marines building that PG next to the hive. It's a tricky call for a fade at that point unless he can hear the radio chatter or has the parasites at his disposal.
Those are just very general examples. Most of the time that incomprehensible chatter is just enough to make voice comm harmful.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that is not for me to decide.
I just suggested that marines and khaara should be able to use localized voice chat. Then the topic of hearing each other came up and then I just made some suggestions.
The main topic is the localized voice chat though.
As for the "Not being able to understand the other team", I completely agree. I think that if you just made it so some Sims-esque (Less stupid sounding) garbled voice for the Marines and then of course, some low growling like noise, it would work out fine. Now hopefully, there will already be ambient sounds of aliens from time to time with only a few very minor differences from alien player sounds, that way ambushes and such aren't given away as easily. It only makes sense to me that if someone is communicating with other players of their team, and that person is around the enemy team, the other team should be able to at least hear that there <i>is</i> an enemy somewhere in their vicinity.
PS: I don't know if you know this Diesel, but squads will be formed automatically from surrounding players. So it's still pretty close to local chat, just more teamwork friendly if there is a squad VOIP.
As for the "Not being able to understand the other team", I completely agree. I think that if you just made it so some Sims-esque (Less stupid sounding) garbled voice for the Marines and then of course, some low growling like noise, it would work out fine. Now hopefully, there will already be ambient sounds of aliens from time to time with only a few very minor differences from alien player sounds, that way ambushes and such aren't given away as easily. It only makes sense to me that if someone is communicating with other players of their team, and that person is around the enemy team, the other team should be able to at least hear that there <i>is</i> an enemy somewhere in their vicinity.
PS: I don't know if you know this Diesel, but squads will be formed automatically from surrounding players. So it's still pretty close to local chat, just more teamwork friendly if there is a squad VOIP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, get off the realism bull######. Game concepts are inspired by the real world, not limited by it.
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->p.s. Humans don't "talk" in the future? How is this ###### not realist?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
<!--sizeo:1--><span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->p.s. Humans don't "talk" in the future? How is this ###### not realist?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec--><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where the hell do I say humans don't talk in the future?
If you're referring to my first statement, what I meant by that is that why would marines be limited to only being able to speak to people near by, when they have comm systems linked to the commander/other marines.
As for the "realism bull****". How am I on realism, for a game based on the future? I'm talking about immersion, which is far different from realism and very important for many games... If you can point out one limiting thing, with the exception of not being able to communicate with your team when off the power grid, then please do so. All of the suggestions I've made, are simply to make teamwork more prevalent and natural. If you're against that, then you may want to stick with NS1's Combat game mode...
Best option in my opinion: just a nice simple, push a button talk to your team. In a fast paced combat game, there really isn't room for much else. It's a team game. Talk to your team.
I agree, there's nothing wrong with the system that basically every game uses, I just get reminded of whenever I play any game with just team VOIP and how it can get annoying (Especially in a game like Natural Selection) when you hear "Behind you!" over it and you're forced to turn around (Which seems to be the exact moment an Onos with 4 Fades riding it decide to come from the opposite direction I end up looking). Having automatic squads based on proximity, mixed with a squad only VOIP would (in my opinion) partly eliminate that. Not to mention, in the event that a Squad and Team VOIP system was implemented, people <i>could</i> choose to simply only use the key for speaking to the whole team, if they're really that bothered with having two different keys.
Granted, I do enjoy a tactical play quite a bit more than a fast paced lonewolf streak (not saying you don't like team play, just stating how much I like it :P), so maybe that's why I like the idea of a Squad based and Team based VOIP more than just team VOIP.
Btw, this has already been discussed a fair bit. You should of searched before you made a new post.
That would be called squad chat. Localized is when you are able to speak to anybody who is in close proximity to you... whether they are in your squad or just a guy you bump into.
no
When squads are formed through localization I'd say they're pretty much synonymous.
no<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your post = Useless
Explain why it is bad.
-Universal Chat
-Squad Chat
-Local Chat
-(opt) Comm Chat
--- I am comm and I speak to you all overriding your obnoxious complaints
3 Major channels. Access to each and simple hotkeys to talk into each. Ability to mute any of them and any individual (even the comm). Go.
HoN uses only global and local. Depending on how well we can keep squads together, squad chat may or may not be useful.
Only problem would be if some spamming noob got into it.
Also, I give the ability that any1 can mute any1, including the comm.
What are you talking about?
Well if you have a noob comm that is really gonna take advantage of the chat system your probably screwed to the point where voice chat spam is the least of your worries. However that's where the mute function and comm vote kick functions come in, and I do hope they make a return.
A nice feature to add would be the ability to speak to nearby marines with voice chat. As in if you speak only people who are near you will be able to hear. A sort of localized chat that only people and aliens that are close to you can hear. Not a squad system like BF2 or Quake wars.. That doesn't work. A localized chat that people can hear in their relative distance to you. So when you are running around you don't clog the main team chat up when you want to tell the person next to you something. Then you can use the team chat for stuff that the entire team should hear.
What do you guys think? It would make the gameplay much better. Seeing as nothing like this has been made successfully yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this feature would be very hindering to the team. however, I think this would be a brilliant punishment to either the Human or alien team that get their communications network knocked out :D. Realistic target to go after to disrupt the enemy.
It isn't hindering, since there is also a main team voice chat.
We are just adding the local chat also.
Not really. Give them an easy way to spawn with their squad and you can often get very good squads sticking together.