"lockdown" mode
Opprobrious
Join Date: 2008-11-17 Member: 65483Members
Join Date: 2008-11-17 Member: 65483Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Flayra+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Working with Cory to help design a 'lockdown' mode for the heavy/exoskeleton (lower recoil but must fire in one general direction).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is anyone else completely nonplussed by this idea? It really sounds like they are making the marines extremely slow and ponderous.
Who really wants to play as a glorified turret?
Almost no one uses the fixed guns in l4d because they make you a sitting duck for damage pounces.
Also, what the hell does he mean by recoil? Is it CS style recoil or is he talking about narrowing the cone of fire?
VERY SCARY update.
Is anyone else completely nonplussed by this idea? It really sounds like they are making the marines extremely slow and ponderous.
Who really wants to play as a glorified turret?
Almost no one uses the fixed guns in l4d because they make you a sitting duck for damage pounces.
Also, what the hell does he mean by recoil? Is it CS style recoil or is he talking about narrowing the cone of fire?
VERY SCARY update.
Comments
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=105038&st=2480&start=2480" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...&start=2480</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=105038&st=2480&start=2480" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...&start=2480</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why post in a very general thread of a 100 pages or more when I want to concentrate the discussion on one specific Idea?
Please leave the moderation to the already overactive moderators.
Taking too much damage or something?
I gotta agree with this. There's a few threads that need splitting, but the javascript that actually submits the split seems to be broken. =(
Taking too much damage or something?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would expect it's similar to siege tanks in starcraft...press a button to switch to lockdown mode
From what I've seen, it would do the game good to move late-game tech to Tier 4 from Tier 3. That way your dual-minigun wielding BDSM/DOMbots would actually not be frustrating to play against.
Mobile siege turrets in combination with "lockdown heavies" seems the opposite of the fast paced gameplay that we were accustomed to in NS1.
Mobile siege turrets in combination with "lockdown heavies" seems the opposite of the fast paced gameplay that we were accustomed to in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The heavys job could be clear and hold, while the normal marines job is attacking...
You never know whats going on. I have a feeling the game will be great, I mean look at what they did w/ NS1... they didn't even have real resources i beleive.
Now they have a studio, fans and support, cool stuff, websites, and a fridge..
And don't forget it is the little things that matter.
:)
Who really wants to play as a glorified turret?
Almost no one uses the fixed guns in l4d because they make you a sitting duck for damage pounces.
Also, what the hell does he mean by recoil? Is it CS style recoil or is he talking about narrowing the cone of fire?
VERY SCARY update.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why don't you keep your mouth shut until you can play it before you complain.
Because then these forums would be dead and the developers would have no fan feedback on their updates.
Who really wants to play as a glorified turret?
Almost no one uses the fixed guns in l4d because they make you a sitting duck for damage pounces.
Also, what the hell does he mean by recoil? Is it CS style recoil or is he talking about narrowing the cone of fire?
VERY SCARY update.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I want to play as a glorified turret if I get to wear heavy armor and DUAL WIELD MINIGUNS OGMF!!! (I think we should make it mandatory that it always be phrased like that)
The left4dead analogy is not too accurate, because first off I don't imagine they'll make you entirely useless if you don't use the lockdown mode. Secondly, even if they did, you can <i>choose</i> where to set up, you don't have to set up in the one place specifically designed to be open to attack from a number of directions. Third, left4dead balances its miniguns thusly: If it's in front of you, you can one shot it, if it's behind you, you can't hit it at all. This is not suitable for NS, therefore we can surmise that the DUAL WIELD MINIGUN mode has some weaknesses. Finally, the left4dead zombies are AI controlled and stupid, the NS aliens are player controlled and, ostensibly, fairly intelligent. There will no doubt be ways to attack an entrenched marine, either using the onos bone shield ability or umbra or whatever.
Being able to carry two giant guns around and rain lead on everything you see is fun in and of itself, an optional deploy mode to let you exercise your head a little and pick good setup locations and anticipate the enemy, those are even better.
<!--quoteo(post=1729717:date=Sep 30 2009, 03:05 AM:name=Opprobrious)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Opprobrious @ Sep 30 2009, 03:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1729717"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The most distressing thing is that the marine playstyle seems to have changed from NS1's aggression and attack to one of "clear & hold".
Mobile siege turrets in combination with "lockdown heavies" seems the opposite of the fast paced gameplay that we were accustomed to in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When I played NS the marine strategy was 'don't lose the early game, after not losing, camp outside the hive room and drop siege towers until everything is dead'. It wasn't what I'd call fast paced.
I'd kinda like to actually attack things with my mini siege tanks and my DUAL MINIGUNS and stuff, seems more fun.
To be honest though as long as you have siege guns, I don't think the strategy will change much, as long as you can kill everything without getting shot, people are just going to camp outside the room. The only difference appears to be that you don't have to build a base every time (improvement) and you have to escort the guns there rather than just escorting your squaddies there and building a PG/TF/SG farm.
Mobile siege turrets in combination with "lockdown heavies" seems the opposite of the fast paced gameplay that we were accustomed to in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Fast paced gameplay didn't come into the picture until Combat mode showed up and ruined NS.
Regular NS though is quite fast when you fight, but the actual progression of the game is quite slow.
Mobile siege turrets in combination with "lockdown heavies" seems the opposite of the fast paced gameplay that we were accustomed to in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The most distressing thing is change? I see a pattern in your complaints Opprobrious.
Nevertheless I see what you are saying. However I see nothing wrong with the idea of marines having their playstyle changed. Heavy Armour, it seems, is going to be mainly responsible for attacking enemy controlled areas head on. Once they enter they have the option of lockdown, which will enable them to efficiently clear the room. However it leaves them very vulnerable to attacks from multiple angles, and the aliens are very good at doing that. The lockdown feature will no doubt have a "cool-down" or something similar, to prevent it from being overused.
Once again, this update is not distressing nor worrying. Surely it excites you in some way or form. Imagine the gameplay aspects being unlocked by the new abilities of Heavy Armour. Before distressing over the new proposed changes, you need to understand that
A) It is a concept, it is not certain to be put in the game.
B) We have barely any information on the functions of "lock-down"
C) NS2 is not going to be NS1 with a make-over. It is going to be different, and until we see gameplay videos we won't know whether this is good or not.
The recurring theme with your complaints is change. I understand you may have concerns about proposed changes, but it is becoming increasingly apparent that you would prefer no change to NS1s structure. Thankfully, this will not be the case.
Good melee vs ranged combat relies heavily on <b>micro level movement</b>. This means the ranged team needs to move FAST and the alien team needs to move FASTER. If the ranged team is SLOW/IMMOBILE while the melee team is FAST you end up with a clay-pidgin simulator. It TOTALLY destroys the micro level player interaction between enemies. It removes the player vs player movement counters that both sides employ to dodge or attack their enemy. Without micro level combat counters you remove the PLAYER aspect from the combat system.
Marines have 1 option: shoot the aliens
Aliens have 1 option: bite the marine
This is BAD gameplay.
Do not ignore the great movement micro in NS1, it is the BACKBONE of the entire combat system. Implementing a suit that makes marines immobile breaks the core of the great ranged vs melee combat found in NS1.
I was thinking the exact same thing.
If you consider how this could be used it sounds interesting. An activation of lock-down could be very short and so the de-activation. Lock-down doesn't even sound that devastating when you think about it (despite the name), it only improves accuracy to allow for sustained fire. So a Heavy Armour can use this ability in situations that require it, such as advancing down narrow corridors. If faced with fast moving enemies, lock-down is useless and therefore you must switch to your standard mode.
I WOULDNT be surprised of thiers recoil for even the MG, or some bigger spread and i wouldnt mind it quite frankly. For marines in ns1 aiming was No.1 on your list for being a good teammate, this game seems to change it around, for aliens*having abiltiies like the onos stomp now disorienting marines. or the gorges protection, why not seriously give marines a unique ability only to them, whatother alien will dig in, have a limited cone of fire, and be able to provide insane firepower but be vulnerable,likewise there is no marine that has an energy bar thus making the gorges ability unique.
Another thing thats unique is the fact that aliens are going to be faster then marines.
Your extremly scared of change actually, truth is games that are an exact port with better graphics only succeed if they are not flawed(counter strike source did well because it was easy to play, provides some sort of realistic gameplay , and ns1 was flawed, for a big reason,New people entered the game, got wtf pwnt in 5 seconds, flamed by thier commander for not putting down mines, devoured by onos, only those who wished to stay through the rapefest actually liked ns after they grasped it, by slowing down the pace of the game with abilties like lockdown, alien speed, recoil etc it will be easier. Possibly one of the main things in the game thats capable of killing extremly fast like in ns could be fade
FYI i am assuming alot by i am assuming by facts i know which do lead me to think this game is slower paced, this ability lockdown is just a reinforcement that the games pce is slowed down.
i'm seeing it as a 10 second temporary ability
- or something you can toggle on and off quite quickly - remember teh heavy machine gunner in day of defeat? - you go prone, deploy shooty shoot, move forward, repeat
Why? Why does everyone think this ability will turn you into a powerful sentry gun.
It only increases your accuracy while limiting your movement.
This change promotes Heavy Armour to lead the charge into areas that require taking. While they lead the attack, they have stronger accuracy and hence are more efficent. They must rely on the teamwork of their fellow light Marines to cover their vulnerable flanks. It could also be used as area denial, standing in a corridor with another heavy to block access by the aliens, however this tactic would be weak to the Onos' Bone Shield.
I'm going with the assumption that lockdown mode would take some time, maybe 5 seconds?, which is already too long when in combat. I'm also going with the assumption that the marine would be static and that when lockdowned, the marine has a drastic increase in accuracy.
In this case, I would say that I do not approve of lockdown mode since it would definately slow gameplay down as well as prolong end games when marines would be holed up in the MS.
However, should the deployment time for lockdown mode be reduced to a very short time, I would approve of it, since it will definately help the marines push towards the aliens' base much faster. I think it all depends on the deployment time, if any. Remember, I am working with 3 assumptions but I think the critical point should be focused on deployment time.
Because intuitively that's what "lockdown" implies.
I'm going with the assumption that lockdown mode would take some time, maybe 5 seconds?, which is already too long when in combat. I'm also going with the assumption that the marine would be static and that when lockdowned, the marine has a drastic increase in accuracy.
In this case, I would say that I do not approve of lockdown mode since it would definately slow gameplay down as well as prolong end games when marines would be holed up in the MS.
However, should the deployment time for lockdown mode be reduced to a very short time, I would approve of it, since it will definately help the marines push towards the aliens' base much faster. I think it all depends on the deployment time, if any. Remember, I am working with 3 assumptions but I think the critical point should be focused on deployment time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good game, just presume it takes 5 second based upon your... WAST knowledge about how... uh... The minds of the UWE employees work?
It's just a concept name. I know what you are saying but you can stop being so initially negative to a concept we barely even know about.
In NS2 this could be dramatically slower, as it's used to aim better with less recoil.
One situation using this:
An Onos attacking your squad, you lockdown and start shooting at it. The Onos duck and uses his armor to not get damage, then your squad is more free to move and shoot the Onos from the side.
With 3 heavies using 2 mgs positioned in a triangle over a room you have secured (partially) that place. Of course, you need more people because of Skulks, Fades and Lerks moving faster than you on lockdown mode.
You need to think more in the game dynamics and stop complaining about everything. I see this as an evolution of the gameplay dynamics and I love it. It really brings that new gameplay they talk about without losing the NS way. The best part, it force a more cooperative way of play.
With the Heavy being described more as an 'exoskeleton', does it become a straight upgrade (as it really is now, a Heavy is generally better than a Light) or does it become an alternative? I'd agree with the message the OP is trying to put across (I'm not totally down with the delivery) but we need to realise that it may, in NS2, be a design choice to intentionally *not* upgrade all your Marines. If there are significant drawbacks to having the entire team as Heavy (or Jetpack, whatever, the exact upgrade is irrelevant) then making them function in a more sedentary way might be a good thing. They represent in RTS terms a more defensive unit, that cost you offense.
A little rambling (typing from work), but I'm hoping the point comes across.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton</a>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoskeleton#Artificial_.22exoskeletons.22" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exoskeleton#A...exoskeletons.22</a>
<img src="http://davidszondy.com/ephemeral/hardiman2.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Anyways, we know about nothing about the marine team right now besides the exoskeleton and what they look like, I say we wait.