Weapon Feedback
Sirot
Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members
Join Date: 2006-12-03 Member: 58851Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Be notified when your bullets make contact.</div><!--quoteo(post=1730082:date=Oct 1 2009, 05:37 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Oct 1 2009, 05:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730082"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>The reason people liked Quake's netcode so much wasn't actually due to the netcode, it was due to the tight feedback loop the player recieved. Every time one of your bullets successfully hit someone you got a "ping" noise to let you know. </b>This made it so that, as you say Bacillus, it was very easy to adjust to the server latency. This might be something to consider for NS2 considering how important aiming is, and if it isn't in the main game, I bet it wouldn't be too hard to mod in.
There are a lot of games that have done something similar, but I think Quake is the best example of a really tight feedback loop. In TF2, the Sniper's Huntsmann makes a "shtickk" noise when it hits a guy (even if the guy is across the map) which I think is one of the reasons I like using it so much. In Mario Kart 64, the same thing happened when another person ran over your banana or got hit by any other item of yours. You would hear them go "aieee" or whatever.
Both Mario Kart and TF2 are on a different scale though, as the sound in Quake goes off like 40 times a second. With MK and TF2 it is intended more to be a notification of what is happening offscreen (hence the lower frequency), while in Quake it is intended to create the feedback loop.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was said in the NS2 Netcode thread and I honestly think it's a great idea. The general premise is that when your weapon or ability hits (for marines and aliens, respectively) you hear a sound notifying that your shot did indeed hit. Of course, this sound is only hearable by the attacker and there should be multiple versions of it to cover a variety of weapons and abilities. This idea provides three main benefits.
1. Like Psyke said, it allows Marines to adjust their aim for latency. If you are shooting at a skulk and the bullets are not hitting when they should, you can figure where need to aim so that latency is taken into consideration and those misses turn into hits again.
2. Help teach new FPS players how to aim more effectively by giving them feedback on their accuracy.
3. Allow skilled players to count their hits and rewarding them with ammo efficiency.
You wouldn't get weapon feedback from wide-area weapons/abilities like a flamethrower or poison cloud.
There are a lot of games that have done something similar, but I think Quake is the best example of a really tight feedback loop. In TF2, the Sniper's Huntsmann makes a "shtickk" noise when it hits a guy (even if the guy is across the map) which I think is one of the reasons I like using it so much. In Mario Kart 64, the same thing happened when another person ran over your banana or got hit by any other item of yours. You would hear them go "aieee" or whatever.
Both Mario Kart and TF2 are on a different scale though, as the sound in Quake goes off like 40 times a second. With MK and TF2 it is intended more to be a notification of what is happening offscreen (hence the lower frequency), while in Quake it is intended to create the feedback loop.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was said in the NS2 Netcode thread and I honestly think it's a great idea. The general premise is that when your weapon or ability hits (for marines and aliens, respectively) you hear a sound notifying that your shot did indeed hit. Of course, this sound is only hearable by the attacker and there should be multiple versions of it to cover a variety of weapons and abilities. This idea provides three main benefits.
1. Like Psyke said, it allows Marines to adjust their aim for latency. If you are shooting at a skulk and the bullets are not hitting when they should, you can figure where need to aim so that latency is taken into consideration and those misses turn into hits again.
2. Help teach new FPS players how to aim more effectively by giving them feedback on their accuracy.
3. Allow skilled players to count their hits and rewarding them with ammo efficiency.
You wouldn't get weapon feedback from wide-area weapons/abilities like a flamethrower or poison cloud.
Comments
They could probably make the sound of bullets hitting aliens a little more distinct.
They could probably make the sound of bullets hitting aliens a little more distinct.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I support this idea!
homicide is right though -- it works great in Quake because Quake doesn't care so much about atmosphere. In NS we care about atmosphere, but there are ways to provide feedback without killing the atmosphere, such as blood splashes and squishy noises. The key is just to ensure that players are getting good feedback from the game about whether or not they are hitting an enemy.
I haven't played NS1 in a long while, but the only feedback I really remembered from it were the blood splashes. I don't remember any sound.
I also am not sure if the blood splashes were actually done with feedback from the server, or if they were handled clientside (if they were, this would mean they looked nice, but did nothing to show the player if he was accounting for lag/netcode properly).
i always found suspense enjoyable.
Any game with visibility issues, either shooting at long range or in darkness, needs to let you know what and if you've hit something.
Besides, aliens make screeching noises, it's one of the most characteristic elements of the alien films.
Isn't it the other way around? I remember the skulk screaming when it gets hurt (mostly if attacked by grenade).
Dunno if hl1 and source netcode are much different but in cs:s you often see blood but didn't hit the enemy because of lag...
Aliens, gooshy blood sound with a little crunch to confirm
Marines, the sound of shooting a steak(shoot a potroast with a glock or just some random pistol, listen to the sound of it hitting)
Yeah, if you hear hit registration but see sparks you're missing.
I'd like to have the deciding dice rolls displayed in my console.
<b>They could probably make the sound of bullets hitting aliens a little more distinct.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a good alternative.
This is why I don't come into this portion of the NS forums, normally. :)
One of the favorited ideas was to use a system similar to the BF series, StarWars Battlefront, and Call of Duty where your cursor changes slightly to indicate you've hit something. For example, in CoD4 your point crosshair gains a few ticks making an X overlay to indicate you've scored hits. If there are headshots or bonus damage regions, it has a slightly different change to indicate your special hit. Sounds could become distracting imo, but are another way to provide feedback.
NS1 used blood splatters overlayed on your targets and spread on the floors/walls for hit, but most commented that it was too small to notice from long distance.
as marines you aren't ever going to be shooting at very long distances, and if you are you shouldnt not have a clear indicator of a direct hit - its more suspensful and keeps the game interesting
when you are up with in normal firing range, then you shuld be able to see green alien blood and the bullets make a different sound when hitting alien players
as marines you aren't ever going to be shooting at very long distances, and if you are you shouldnt not have a clear indicator of a direct hit - its more suspensful and keeps the game interesting
when you are up with in normal firing range, then you shuld be able to see green alien blood and the bullets make a different sound when hitting alien players<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not intensive anymore on a point where you hop out of the comm chair to land 45 bullets on a skulk and go aggressive to finish it only to find out 80% of your bullets didn't reg. It's cool if you don't know how much you actually tracked a lerk, but dying to a skulk because it should be low and it isn't gets old quickly.
I think the least NS2 should do is create a clear message through the hit sounds and small blood splatters. Those don't have to be atmosphere breaking, but it's still possible to design them with good feedback in mind.
You shoot until you run out of bullets, with these good rag dolls now you can't tell the dead from alive.
After you've shotgunned the fade, auto drop a witty one liner, and that's the feed back for the dead fade.
In all seriousness, the only indication that you've hit or been hit is some blood splattering in your eyes.
as marines you aren't ever going to be shooting at very long distances, and if you are you shouldnt not have a clear indicator of a direct hit - its more suspensful and keeps the game interesting
when you are up with in normal firing range, then you shuld be able to see green alien blood and the bullets make a different sound when hitting alien players<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But as one guy pointed it up... there's a difference between a suspenseful atmosphere and a "are my shots even registering"
I think the contemplation over registry kills the sense of immersion way more than a louder feedback does...
a louder skulk noise (fed by the server and not client side) coupled with blood sounds fantastic.
When u die, u should have some sort of rewind and see where your bullets hit until u respawn
only for marines i guess
When u die, u should have some sort of rewind and see where your bullets hit until u respawn
only for marines i guess<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
kill cams ruin rts
And if it goes 3rd person and watches the last 3 seconds of you dying?
agreed.
Weapon feedback doesn't break immersion if done properly. See examples I've already given (CoD4 and so on). A simple visual indicator on your crosshair, maybe blood splatters (hard to see for most ppl though at long range) are easy and help let you know if your shot down that hallway made it. Sounds can also work, but the high-pitched "ping" of Quake3 does break immersion and is excessive imo in this kind of game. NS1 has a soft sound on hits if I remember correctly, but it originates from the target. Kind of a squishy flesh being torn sound.
The REASON we use it is two-fold. One, lets the player know they've actually hit something. Very important for tactical games or when playing against people using cover/camouflage. Since the Aliens will be using these, this would be very helpful. Also, this lets you know if your attacks as an Alien hit as well. Did your bite register? The second thing is to help with the lag compensation. Maybe the graphics say your crosshair wasn't quite on them, but the server registered a hit due to the lag. This is important, especially at higher levels of play, and subconsciously players will be able to adjust for the lag.
I really don't have time to check for blood splatters is a gun fight...
Halo had a good feedback system, They're shields lights up. though halo ce was so laggy it didn't help MP