How will this game appeal to newer players?
xmaine
Join Date: 2009-08-10 Member: 68409Members
Join Date: 2009-08-10 Member: 68409Members
How will I be able to get friends to play this game?
So we all know that modern warfare 2 is coming out in november and is predicted to be the game of the year. We also know that Starcraft 2 is coming out. Natural Selection 2 will combine FPS and RTS like it has in NS1, but how will newer players come to enjoy this game?
In NS1, the learning curve for the skulk was extremely steep so no one likes aliens. If a new commander got in the chair, he would get booted out within 30 seconds. How would the new commander be able to get better if all the pubbers, veterans, and competitive players always boot him out? There we have your customers uninstall this game, giving bad reviews, and calling this game trash.
Everybody seems to focused in on winning and not so much on gameplay. New/bad players would not be able to have any fun because of some commander not willing to give out lifeforms because his focus is to give all the lifeforms to all the good people and bam, expect to win like that whereas the new player is given the freedom to do whatever he wants with his res possibly contributing to the team by some well known noob tactics:
Early onos
Paper fade death: cause marines to waste money on guns and ups early on.
Lerk Gassing
Putting ocs in places
Much like so in NS1.
Whereas marines, the commander always wants to give the guns to good people (i have been guilty of this) and hoping that the pro would give the entire marine team an advantage. If the pro happens to die, some random person can just pick up the weapon and just mow down skulks boosting his score. The random person doesnt even have to be good.
Aliens are not able to just "pick up" life forms unless there's something about this game that I dont know about.
Of course the commander would help lead teams into the right direction giving people roles on the alien team which becomes a chore instead of actually becoming fun.
In mmorpgs, you wouldnt force someone to build a character a specific way just so he can be part of your dominating clan. You might as well buy a final fantasy or a pokemon game where it gives you limited freedom in how you build and fight.
This game would not appeal to newer players seeing how console gaming is already satisfying to most people. If i wanted to play a game, i might as well just play halo wars.
The game should each have different mechanics instead of the ranged vs melee mechanic and the pick up vs morph. I am well aware that strategies in each game are different but I want this game to appeal to people. Most people of course judge by "First Impression." NS was fun because it allowed freedom for aliens to be whatever they wanted and do whatever they want based not based on the acom, but based on how they want to play.
Squad based combat never has and never will work. If the game is based on squad combat and players will not be able to have the freedom to explore the environment, save up for a 1 hive onos, rambo with the only hmg heavy racking up skulk kills, and such.
No one wants a chore, people want a game.
And i'm well aware of the marine side having a commander and a few contradictions from aliens to marines that also apply here. Hopefully UWE can change to another mechanic instead of an acom. Maybe there could be an expansive chamber system where once an alien drops a certain chamber (mc, dc, sc), A whole new tech branch would branch out of that chamber such as more chambers and probably lifeforms maybe offensive, support, or hell even some NPC that does base harassment.
So we all know that modern warfare 2 is coming out in november and is predicted to be the game of the year. We also know that Starcraft 2 is coming out. Natural Selection 2 will combine FPS and RTS like it has in NS1, but how will newer players come to enjoy this game?
In NS1, the learning curve for the skulk was extremely steep so no one likes aliens. If a new commander got in the chair, he would get booted out within 30 seconds. How would the new commander be able to get better if all the pubbers, veterans, and competitive players always boot him out? There we have your customers uninstall this game, giving bad reviews, and calling this game trash.
Everybody seems to focused in on winning and not so much on gameplay. New/bad players would not be able to have any fun because of some commander not willing to give out lifeforms because his focus is to give all the lifeforms to all the good people and bam, expect to win like that whereas the new player is given the freedom to do whatever he wants with his res possibly contributing to the team by some well known noob tactics:
Early onos
Paper fade death: cause marines to waste money on guns and ups early on.
Lerk Gassing
Putting ocs in places
Much like so in NS1.
Whereas marines, the commander always wants to give the guns to good people (i have been guilty of this) and hoping that the pro would give the entire marine team an advantage. If the pro happens to die, some random person can just pick up the weapon and just mow down skulks boosting his score. The random person doesnt even have to be good.
Aliens are not able to just "pick up" life forms unless there's something about this game that I dont know about.
Of course the commander would help lead teams into the right direction giving people roles on the alien team which becomes a chore instead of actually becoming fun.
In mmorpgs, you wouldnt force someone to build a character a specific way just so he can be part of your dominating clan. You might as well buy a final fantasy or a pokemon game where it gives you limited freedom in how you build and fight.
This game would not appeal to newer players seeing how console gaming is already satisfying to most people. If i wanted to play a game, i might as well just play halo wars.
The game should each have different mechanics instead of the ranged vs melee mechanic and the pick up vs morph. I am well aware that strategies in each game are different but I want this game to appeal to people. Most people of course judge by "First Impression." NS was fun because it allowed freedom for aliens to be whatever they wanted and do whatever they want based not based on the acom, but based on how they want to play.
Squad based combat never has and never will work. If the game is based on squad combat and players will not be able to have the freedom to explore the environment, save up for a 1 hive onos, rambo with the only hmg heavy racking up skulk kills, and such.
No one wants a chore, people want a game.
And i'm well aware of the marine side having a commander and a few contradictions from aliens to marines that also apply here. Hopefully UWE can change to another mechanic instead of an acom. Maybe there could be an expansive chamber system where once an alien drops a certain chamber (mc, dc, sc), A whole new tech branch would branch out of that chamber such as more chambers and probably lifeforms maybe offensive, support, or hell even some NPC that does base harassment.
Comments
Pretty much stopped reading there. You go do that now, good day sir.
This is where I stopped reading. How bout you guys? ;)
Here for me.
By being awesome in every way imaginable so that new players heads explode and are put back together by the sheer awesomeness.
A good question which you might be interested in <a href="http://unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=103049&hl=friend" target="_blank">this topic</a>.
<!--quoteo(post=1730920:date=Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In NS1, the learning curve for the skulk was extremely steep so no one likes aliens. If a new commander got in the chair, he would get booted out within 30 seconds. How would the new commander be able to get better if all the pubbers, veterans, and competitive players always boot him out? There we have your customers uninstall this game, giving bad reviews, and calling this game trash.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS1 is critically acclaimed by the people who have played it. Most people didn't blame the game for how some of the community acted with respect to commanders. They are doing a lot to decouple comms and non-comms so it will be less of a game-breaking role. And most everyone loves aliens, but it is a specific play style. It's not the same as the marine game in a lot of ways.
<!--quoteo(post=1730920:date=Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Everybody seems to focused in on winning and not so much on gameplay. New/bad players would not be able to have any fun because of some commander not willing to give out lifeforms because his focus is to give all the lifeforms to all the good people and bam, expect to win like that<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In order to design a well-balanced and deep multiplayer game, you have to work under the assumption that the player is trying to win. <a href="http://unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=105867&hl=fairness" target="_blank">Balance and fairness</a> are <i>very</i> important to fun. Things like the atmosphere and breadth of the game are very important too, but they can't interfere with the balance and fairness or else you will be shooting yourself in the foot. Similarly, oversimplifing for the sake of balance is also bad. You can't make a game like pong and expect people to play it just because it's "balanced" and I hope this is what you're trying to articulate.
<!--quoteo(post=1730920:date=Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->whereas the new player is given the freedom to do whatever he wants with his res possibly contributing to the team by some well known noob tactics:
Early onos
Paper fade death: cause marines to waste money on guns and ups early on.
Lerk Gassing
Putting ocs in places
Much like so in NS1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. These are not "good" things to do even if they help the team to some small extent. You can't expect people to thank you for rushing onos or dying as fade in your first minute of gestation. I'm glad you're trying to play as a team player, but res-whoring is not a team strat. You're better off putting chambers(not oc's) in the vents, healing lifeforms, and baiting rines if you can't go head to head. These things are harder to learn because people don't usually tell how or when or where to do them except when yelling at you which doesn't make for constructive criticism. I think you could use <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=10649&view=findpost&p=1712063" target="_blank">achievements</a> to encourage new players to learn unintuitive behaviors like these instead of leaving it up to the community.
<!--quoteo(post=1730920:date=Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whereas marines, the commander always wants to give the guns to good people (i have been guilty of this) and hoping that the pro would give the entire marine team an advantage. If the pro happens to die, some random person can just pick up the weapon and just mow down skulks boosting his score. The random person doesnt even have to be good.
Aliens are not able to just "pick up" life forms unless there's something about this game that I dont know about.
Of course the commander would help lead teams into the right direction giving people roles on the alien team which becomes a chore instead of actually becoming fun.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So your point here is that kharaa is harder to learn because there's less practice with higher lifeforms? True and this is the problem combat was intended to solve, but didn't end up working very well. I think there's worthwhile discussion on how this could be better. I'd say you could use <a href="http://unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106995&hl=challenge" target="_blank">challenges</a> for this kind of thing.
As for your third statement, you haven't played the game yet so how would you know? That seems like a stretch of an assumption. We'll cross that bridge if and when we come to it.
<!--quoteo(post=1730920:date=Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->In mmorpgs, you wouldnt force someone to build a character a specific way just so he can be part of your dominating clan. You might as well buy a final fantasy or a pokemon game where it gives you limited freedom in how you build and fight.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, you do. There are specific builds to follow if you want to be competitive. If you're talking about purely non-raid PvE see my earlier comment on balance and how it would apply here as well.
<!--quoteo(post=1730920:date=Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This game would not appeal to newer players seeing how console gaming is already satisfying to most people. If i wanted to play a game, i might as well just play halo wars.
The game should each have different mechanics instead of the ranged vs melee mechanic and the pick up vs morph. I am well aware that strategies in each game are different but I want this game to appeal to people. Most people of course judge by "First Impression." NS was fun because it allowed freedom for aliens to be whatever they wanted and do whatever they want based not based on the acom, but based on how they want to play.
No one wants a chore, people want a game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Absolutely not. This is the bread and butter of NS. There are plenty of other games that do ranged vs ranged, and I play NS because I like ranged vs melee. It's one of the few games that does it well and it's the <i>only</i> game I know that does <i>both</i> ranged vs melee <i>and</i> RTS/FPS well.
Indeed, but not every game is going to appeal to every person. NS2 does want a wider audience(see sig), but if you can't enjoy ranged vs melee or RTS/FPS then NS2 is simply not the game for you. I enjoy NS1 and I am excited for NS2. I would say "obviously, you are not" except that you are interested enough to post on these forums. Perhaps you're just playing the devil's advocate.
<!--quoteo(post=1730920:date=Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Squad based combat never has and never will work. If the game is based on squad combat and players will not be able to have the freedom to explore the environment, save up for a 1 hive onos, rambo with the only hmg heavy racking up skulk kills, and such.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Squads work in plenty of games, and I don't see how squads limit you from exploring the environment. You're not tied to your squad. NS2 has implemented this as soft as possible with free-form squads. Your squad is the people you're near, there's no other enforcement I'm aware of.
<!--quoteo(post=1730920:date=Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM:name=xmaine)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xmaine @ Oct 5 2009, 11:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1730920"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And i'm well aware of the marine side having a commander and a few contradictions from aliens to marines that also apply here. Hopefully UWE can change to another mechanic instead of an acom. Maybe there could be an expansive chamber system where once an alien drops a certain chamber (mc, dc, sc), A whole new tech branch would branch out of that chamber such as more chambers and probably lifeforms maybe offensive, support, or hell even some NPC that does base harassment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you want locked in tech and creeps? I'm not a fan but some other people are. I don't think creeps would work in NS as the challenge will never be as good as a real person. And the Savage series of games uses harder counters and locked in tech, but I don't think it improved the RTS aspect substantially and diminished the FPS aspect too much.
Seems that he recognized NS1 has depth but most people would just rather play a game that's fun from the start, even if it's mindless like Halo Wars.
How will NS2 address those issues?
noon com eject? > multiple coms
com not giving weapon? > earn your own weapon credits
noob lifeform wasting critical res? > we don't know yet do we? suggestion: Personal lifeform res apart for the building/tech res pool.
NS1 has serious new gamer retention issues. This is why I embrace change in NS2 as long as the core gameplay is there. That being RTS/FPS mix and distinct sides (Meele vs Ranged)... pistol is not core NS gameplay :/
<!--quoteo(post=1731148:date=Oct 6 2009, 07:29 PM:name=Atone)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Atone @ Oct 6 2009, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1731148"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is where I stopped reading. How bout you guys? ;)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I actually went the whole way through but by the end I was just reading every fifth word.
Seems that he recognized NS1 has depth but most people would just rather play a game that's fun from the start, even if it's mindless like Halo Wars.
How will NS2 address those issues?
noon com eject? > multiple coms
com not giving weapon? > earn your own weapon credits
noob lifeform wasting critical res? > we don't know yet do we? suggestion: Personal lifeform res apart for the building/tech res pool.
NS1 has serious new gamer retention issues. This is why I embrace change in NS2 as long as the core gameplay is there. That being RTS/FPS mix and distinct sides (Meele vs Ranged)... pistol is not core NS gameplay :/<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I thoroughly concur, a lot of the changes thus far are heading in the right direction and hopefully more will follow to fix other issues.
NS1 is critically acclaimed by the people who have played it. Most people didn't blame the game for how some of the community acted with respect to commanders. They are doing a lot to decouple comms and non-comms so it will be less of a game-breaking role. And most everyone loves aliens, but it is a specific play style. It's not the same as the marine game in a lot of ways.
In order to design a well-balanced and deep multiplayer game, you have to work under the assumption that the player is trying to win. <a href="http://unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=105867&hl=fairness" target="_blank">Balance and fairness</a> are <i>very</i> important to fun. Things like the atmosphere and breadth of the game are very important too, but they can't interfere with the balance and fairness or else you will be shooting yourself in the foot. Similarly, oversimplifing for the sake of balance is also bad. You can't make a game like pong and expect people to play it just because it's "balanced" and I hope this is what you're trying to articulate.
I'm not sure what you're getting at here. These are not "good" things to do even if they help the team to some small extent. You can't expect people to thank you for rushing onos or dying as fade in your first minute of gestation. I'm glad you're trying to play as a team player, but res-whoring is not a team strat. You're better off putting chambers(not oc's) in the vents, healing lifeforms, and baiting rines if you can't go head to head. These things are harder to learn because people don't usually tell how or when or where to do them except when yelling at you which doesn't make for constructive criticism. I think you could use <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=10649&view=findpost&p=1712063" target="_blank">achievements</a> to encourage new players to learn unintuitive behaviors like these instead of leaving it up to the community.
So your point here is that kharaa is harder to learn because there's less practice with higher lifeforms? True and this is the problem combat was intended to solve, but didn't end up working very well. I think there's worthwhile discussion on how this could be better. I'd say you could use <a href="http://unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=106995&hl=challenge" target="_blank">challenges</a> for this kind of thing.
As for your third statement, you haven't played the game yet so how would you know? That seems like a stretch of an assumption. We'll cross that bridge if and when we come to it.
Actually, you do. There are specific builds to follow if you want to be competitive. If you're talking about purely non-raid PvE see my earlier comment on balance and how it would apply here as well.
Absolutely not. This is the bread and butter of NS. There are plenty of other games that do ranged vs ranged, and I play NS because I like ranged vs melee. It's one of the few games that does it well and it's the <i>only</i> game I know that does <i>both</i> ranged vs melee <i>and</i> RTS/FPS well.
Indeed, but not every game is going to appeal to every person. NS2 does want a wider audience(see sig), but if you can't enjoy ranged vs melee or RTS/FPS then NS2 is simply not the game for you. I enjoy NS1 and I am excited for NS2. I would say "obviously, you are not" except that you are interested enough to post on these forums. Perhaps you're just playing the devil's advocate.
Squads work in plenty of games, and I don't see how squads limit you from exploring the environment. You're not tied to your squad. NS2 has implemented this as soft as possible with free-form squads. Your squad is the people you're near, there's no other enforcement I'm aware of.
So you want locked in tech and creeps? I'm not a fan but some other people are. I don't think creeps would work in NS as the challenge will never be as good as a real person. And the Savage series of games uses harder counters and locked in tech, but I don't think it improved the RTS aspect substantially and diminished the FPS aspect too much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I second, third, and fourth this post. Well done.
On the other hand, everyone here saying it was hard to get your friends too play... I don't know your experiences, but my attempts were foiled purely because of the GRAPHICS. Not game play, concept, or learning curve. Am i the only person that loved the fact that you couldnt just jump into the comm chair and be the best? It took research and build order just like a... RTS. You wouldnt play Starcraft 2 and expect to beat everyone your first time playing without playing single player would you? There are other threads trying to help people find proper information on how to ease the initial skill required to play. NS1 had no fan base on release. NS2 will not suffer from this problem.
NS2 fixes my graphics problem. Past that i hope they keep the core idea of NS1. I am a little worried how Squads work and this grid design. The potential is there but it will definitely be a different play style. *crosses fingers*
1) Most new players are INTRIGUED by the complexity, not turned off
2) New players expect to get dominated when they first join
3) You don't have to bhop to start the game
4) You don't even have to aim well to play the game
5) Most of the skills found in NS are mirrored in many other FPS games, there is a HUGE playbase for these skills
6) There is a lot more to NS than getting kills
7) Even a horrible player can spore lerk
8) Even a horrible player can kill LMGs as fade
9) Even a horrible player can kill marines as Onos
10) Even a horrible player can stand in a mob of marines
11) Most people are still horrible at NS1
12) NS2 will be a new game, EVERYONE will be horrible
I guarantee new players in MANY of the most popular multiplayer games will get DOMINATED the first time they play. NS has MORE THAN ENOUGH options to allow TERRIBLE players to beat AMAZING players. It is absolutely ludicrous to expect current day NS1, a 6 year old game full of stubbornly experienced players, to remain a new player friendly environment.
Ridiculous amount of resources have been put into "making NS2 newb friendly." How about we first concentrate on making the game awesome? Great game concepts are created with gameplay at the forefront. LASTLY, their design and implementation should be as simply and intuitive as possible.
1) Most new players are INTRIGUED by the complexity, not turned off
2) New players expect to get dominated when they first join
3) You don't have to bhop to start the game
4) You don't even have to aim well to play the game
5) Most of the skills found in NS are mirrored in many other FPS games, there is a HUGE playbase for these skills
6) There is a lot more to NS than getting kills
7) Even a horrible player can spore lerk
8) Even a horrible player can kill LMGs as fade
9) Even a horrible player can kill marines as Onos
10) Even a horrible player can stand in a mob of marines
11) Most people are still horrible at NS1
12) NS2 will be a new game, EVERYONE will be horrible
I guarantee new players in MANY of the most popular multiplayer games will get DOMINATED the first time they play. NS has MORE THAN ENOUGH options to allow TERRIBLE players to beat AMAZING players. It is absolutely ludicrous to expect current day NS1, a 6 year old game full of stubbornly experienced players, to remain a new player friendly environment.
Ridiculous amount of resources have been put into "making NS2 newb friendly." How about we first concentrate on making the game awesome? Great game concepts are created with gameplay at the forefront. LASTLY, their design and implementation should be as simply and intuitive as possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This
In the end, most new people try aliens, find it hard, move over to marines for a good while til they have a good understanding of the game and then move back (my experience)
If you can play counter strike, you can play this game. (But fair enough. We have to agree that not everyone will ever be able to be good at skulk.)
And soon all the NS2-addicts will be athletic :D
I do that already for NS1 :\ I call it doncing :D
Generally agree until we get to here:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guarantee new players in MANY of the most popular multiplayer games will get DOMINATED the first time they play. NS has MORE THAN ENOUGH options to allow TERRIBLE players to beat AMAZING players. It is absolutely ludicrous to expect current day NS1, a 6 year old game full of stubbornly experienced players, to remain a new player friendly environment.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, I really haven't seen those options that you suggest. In my experience, poor players, new players, or even just "not expert players" will be unfailingly beaten by an expert player if the expert is trying at all.
Secondly, while it might be unlikely for a 6 year old game to remain a new player friendly environment, that's something that *has* to be done with NS2 if we want it to last near as long. Why? Because it's no longer free. NS1 got a large number of converts for the simple reason that people could play without paying anything. So anybody who was slightly interested had no reason not to give it a shot, and thus it could afford to turn away a significant percentage of new players and still form a decent community simply because there were so many out there to choose from. That's not going to be the case with NS2, so I think UWE absolutely has to concentrate on making the game friendly for newbs so that they can get into it quickly, and have enough fun with it that they can convince their friends to pay for it as well. If the game turns away new players because they're getting slaughtered mercilessly and with next to no hope of being useful, productive, or even alive for very long, it's going to pick up some poor word of mouth that could be hugely detrimental to getting enough people to make a strong community -- especially with the competition that's out there these days.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ridiculous amount of resources have been put into "making NS2 newb friendly." How about we first concentrate on making the game awesome? Great game concepts are created with gameplay at the forefront. LASTLY, their design and implementation should be as simply and intuitive as possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Almost. I tend to think that while great gameplay should be at the forefront, an intuitive design/ui and smooth skill curve must always be in the designers thoughts.. because it's not something you can just tack on as an afterthought.
So newplayers might not have to join a competitive server.
There might be modes with there is apple hunt, where your skullks and your going to find 10 apples before the others do.
I'm just saying, maybe we don't need to worry about the newplayers, they might find something else to waste their time on.
First, I really haven't seen those options that you suggest. In my experience, poor players, new players, or even just "not expert players" will be unfailingly beaten by an expert player if the expert is trying at all.
Secondly, while it might be unlikely for a 6 year old game to remain a new player friendly environment, that's something that *has* to be done with NS2 if we want it to last near as long. Why? Because it's no longer free. NS1 got a large number of converts for the simple reason that people could play without paying anything. So anybody who was slightly interested had no reason not to give it a shot, and thus it could afford to turn away a significant percentage of new players and still form a decent community simply because there were so many out there to choose from. That's not going to be the case with NS2, so I think UWE absolutely has to concentrate on making the game friendly for newbs so that they can get into it quickly, and have enough fun with it that they can convince their friends to pay for it as well. If the game turns away new players because they're getting slaughtered mercilessly and with next to no hope of being useful, productive, or even alive for very long, it's going to pick up some poor word of mouth that could be hugely detrimental to getting enough people to make a strong community -- especially with the competition that's out there these days.
Almost. I tend to think that while great gameplay should be at the forefront, an intuitive design/ui and smooth skill curve must always be in the designers thoughts.. because it's not something you can just tack on as an afterthought.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
How are people that PAY for a game MORE likely to quit the first time they play? Answer: they aren't. The reason it is an issue with NS1 is BECAUSE it is free. A free game always translates to a higher new player turnover rate. Tons of initially skeptical people download the game and expect to uninstall it in a week. If their initial response is bad..meh..whatever..uninstall. I guarantee anyone that buys NS2 will be MORE than willing to spend a full day learning the basics. Even after a day, players will learn of less skill intensive, strategical options that allow them to have fun.
People that enjoy the game are far more likely to talk about it than those that got dominated and quit.
People that enjoy the game are far more likely to talk about it than those that got dominated and quit.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I like this point a lot. Kudos.
I just want NS2 to lose some of the weird things it had going on, like the chamber system and replace it with something more interesting and more intuitive. Win - win for everyone.