PhysX and why?

IluvBreadIluvBread Join Date: 2009-10-16 Member: 69059Members
in NS2 General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">Flamers, don't look.</div>Just saw the twitter and made the conclusion that the NS2 team is using PhysX.

Now before people get all jiffy about it and flames the crap out of it, what are It's upside?
I'll give one, It's physics, decent physics as well.

Now I'll continue on with what I think about this.

Nvidia use PhysX to keep people buying their cards and not their competetors, It's all marketing.
They even make game developers _not_ release dx 10.1 patches, why? Nvidia doesn't use it.

Are you sure you guys at the NS2 team wants to support this kind of nonesense behaviour? This is not moving forward, what Nvidia is doing is trying to tell everyone that the way it is right now is good, why change it?
And by using it in your game you are supporting it.


There are other ways of getting physics in a game, PhysX is not the only answer, please choose something else because mainly, should the players really get punished for wanting decent physics in a game?
If you make the choice of which graphics card to get (which you in a manner do by implementing PhysX.) then you will lose customers.
I'm planning on getting an ATI HD5870 to play NS2 with, and now the best gpu on the market isn't good enough just because It's ATI?
Sorry for my choice of words, but that's bull######..
Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome

Comments

  • locallyunscenelocallyunscene Feeder of Trolls Join Date: 2002-12-25 Member: 11528Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1732477:date=Oct 16 2009, 12:10 PM:name=IluvBread)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (IluvBread @ Oct 16 2009, 12:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1732477"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just saw the twitter and made the conclusion that the NS2 team is using PhysX.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Specious conclusion. They just said the were checking out the map viewer. TBH I wouldn't be surprised if Max makes his own custom physics. He said earlier that he made the physics component pluggable to work with any library(specifically mentioned PhysX and Bullet). He did a similar thing with the network code where he made it pluggable for Quake3 and Tribe2 networking and then ended up building his own.

    In short, don't freak out yet.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • IluvBreadIluvBread Join Date: 2009-10-16 Member: 69059Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1732479:date=Oct 16 2009, 05:18 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Oct 16 2009, 05:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1732479"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Specious conclusion. They just said the were checking out the map viewer. TBH I wouldn't be surprised if Max makes his own custom physics. He said earlier that he made the physics component pluggable to work with any library(specifically mentioned PhysX and Bullet). He did a similar thing with the network code where he made it pluggable for Quake3 and Tribe2 networking and then ended up building his own.

    In short, don't freak out yet.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Good response, 'calmed' me down mate. <3
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • RobBRobB ＴＵＢＥＳ ＯＦ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＷＥＢ Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    They where gamers at one point in their history as well. I trust them they have enouogh brain to realize themselfs that physX isn't the "non plus ultra".
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    It's a platform that works. Why do you guys have to argue every tiny decision? Jesus, it's like when you're a kid and you want a toy but someone else has it, you all kick and scream and whine in hope to get it.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • SanguinesMoonSanguinesMoon Join Date: 2009-09-20 Member: 68833Members
    'Nvidia use PhysX to keep people buying their cards and not their competetors, It's all marketing.
    They even make game developers _not_ release dx 10.1 patches, why? Nvidia doesn't use it.'

    Thats totally bull. Nvidia does not make games not getting patches. Most games support multiple direct x levels anyway...
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • RehnquistRehnquist Join Date: 2009-09-01 Member: 68672Members
    My favorite part of PhysX is you can't have an ATI video card in your system at all or it will be disabled. For example, having an nVidia card dedicated to physics processing and an ATI card for everything else is a no-no: nVidia actually disables PhysX in that setting.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • homicidehomicide Join Date: 2003-11-10 Member: 22451Members
    edited October 2009
    The core PhysX engine doesn't utilize the GPU. It only uses nvidia hardware for fancy things like liquid and cloth. I suppose they might be using some of the liquid physics for volumetric flamethrower, gas, and area effects. <b>Most importantly, the performance of PhysX without hardware acceleration is comparable to other physics engines anyways.</b>


    I worked with PhysX when I was making a game engine, it was surprisingly well put together and easy to develop. Blame the other physics engines for costing too much or being a pain to develop.
    Also, ATI sucks :P
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • NeXuZNeXuZ Join Date: 2003-08-12 Member: 19594Members
    edited October 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1732492:date=Oct 16 2009, 06:23 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Oct 16 2009, 06:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1732492"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's a platform that works. Why do you guys have to argue every tiny decision? Jesus, it's like when you're a kid and you want a toy but someone else has it, you all kick and scream and whine in hope to get it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    indeed..

    PhysX works well for me (tryed demo something cus i like to "play around" with it.) on my ATI Radreon HD4850.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • nNyxxnNyxx Join Date: 2004-02-04 Member: 26046Members, Constellation
    PhysX will run on any card, itll just run better on NVidia.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • Alurcard2Alurcard2 Join Date: 2003-07-30 Member: 18614Members
    The problem with PhysX is that it uses CUDA, which only works on nvidia cards. Also, nvidia are going <a href="http://www.ngohq.com/graphic-cards/16223-nvidia-disables-physx-when-ati-card-is-present.html" target="_blank">out of their way</a> to make sure that you can't simply get a lower model nvidia card to accelerate physx alongside your main graphics card.

    It's unfortunate that there's no ready physics API which uses OpenCL, since that is supported on all newer cards.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • OnozkiOnozki Join Date: 2005-04-20 Member: 48948Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    <!--quoteo(post=1732506:date=Oct 16 2009, 01:41 PM:name=homicide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (homicide @ Oct 16 2009, 01:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1732506"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, ATI sucks :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Ati>Nvidia anyday.
    If Uwe goes with mainstream pc requirements for this game, i think that would mean no for PhysX aswell. Lets hope so.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    I thought physx was just an API, like opengl or directx. You don't need fancy crap to run it, you just need fancy crap to do fancy crap with it, but as a basic physics system it works doesn't it?
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • MaxMax Technical Director, Unknown Worlds Entertainment Join Date: 2002-03-15 Member: 318Super Administrators, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts, Future Perfect Developer
    PhysX has a great software physics engine built into it -- most of our computers at Unknown Worlds don't have NVIDIA cards.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • ratclawratclaw Join Date: 2008-06-12 Member: 64433Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1732521:date=Oct 16 2009, 03:27 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Oct 16 2009, 03:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1732521"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PhysX has a great software physics engine built into it -- most of our computers at Unknown Worlds don't have NVIDIA cards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    And thus, I breath a sigh of relief.

    I really don't care about which card gives the best performance. I just don't want to feel crippled cause I got a better deal on a high end ATI than nVidia.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • ObraxisObraxis Subnautica Animator & Generalist, NS2 Person Join Date: 2004-07-24 Member: 30071Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, WC 2013 - Supporter, Subnautica Developer, Pistachionauts
    Awesome to hear Max. :) Looking forward to seeing what your doing with it :)
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • RobBRobB ＴＵＢＥＳ ＯＦ ＴＨＥ ＩＮＴＥＲＷＥＢ Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1732521:date=Oct 16 2009, 10:27 PM:name=Max)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Max @ Oct 16 2009, 10:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1732521"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PhysX has a great software physics engine built into it -- most of our computers at Unknown Worlds don't have NVIDIA cards.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    What's with Havoc? Is it still around, or does the license cost to much?
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • SanguinesMoonSanguinesMoon Join Date: 2009-09-20 Member: 68833Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1732514:date=Oct 16 2009, 07:55 PM:name=Onozki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Onozki @ Oct 16 2009, 07:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1732514"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ati>Nvidia anyday.
    If Uwe goes with mainstream pc requirements for this game, i think that would mean no for PhysX aswell. Lets hope so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Fail more

    Nvidia: better quality - Less burning out

    Nough said.

    DX 11 isnt all.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • JAmazonJAmazon Join Date: 2009-02-21 Member: 66503Members
    STOP IT! Seriously, the ATI/nVidia argument has been done to death and we don't need that here. Keep the fanboyism out, you'll only start a flame war.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • -Diesel--Diesel- Join Date: 2009-09-13 Member: 68769Members
    I have an ATi card and when i turned on physx on the game mirrors edge.... it was 100 percent unplayable.


    It better not be the same BS.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation
    Mirrors Edge PhysX is unplayable on ATi sure. UT3 is much more playable, however your CPU and RAM needs to be up to scratch in order to do so.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • vrexvrex Join Date: 2009-10-03 Member: 68931Members
    I'd rather see Euphoria for animation and damage then physx :D. Btw in batman arkham game physx disables things such as ALL smoke (why???), ALL sparks (why again???) ALL cloth (why, you can have cloth just hanging with no physical response rather then nothing), breakable tiles (which can be done without physx no problem). That and that nvidia disables ati cards now
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • -Diesel--Diesel- Join Date: 2009-09-13 Member: 68769Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1732550:date=Oct 16 2009, 07:26 PM:name=Thaldarin)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Thaldarin @ Oct 16 2009, 07:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1732550"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Mirrors Edge PhysX is unplayable on ATi sure. UT3 is much more playable, however your CPU and RAM needs to be up to scratch in order to do so.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    A quad core at 2.8ghz stock and 4 gigs of ram should be enough.


    I mean I'm only running the third strongest video card on the market also!


    It was just obvious that physx on mirrors edge ( making a few banners wave around unrealistically) was a trick by nvidia to get more buyers and screw over ATi card owners.

    This is why I hate the company, sure the cards are good but the company ###### sucks.


    They use the worst tactics ever. For one little cloth to wiggie it's ass you need a 500 dollar card and if you have an ATi card they make sure that your card performs worse by bribing the game developers. Why do they do this? Don't they already make more money than ATi? If ATi fails then all we are stuck with is ###### nvidia cards that cost 700 dollars because of the lack of competition and they barely improve over the years.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • -Diesel--Diesel- Join Date: 2009-09-13 Member: 68769Members
    edited October 2009
    <!--quoteo(post=1732556:date=Oct 16 2009, 08:20 PM:name=vrex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vrex @ Oct 16 2009, 08:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1732556"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'd rather see Euphoria for animation and damage then physx :D. Btw in batman arkham game physx disables things such as ALL smoke (why???), ALL sparks (why again???) ALL cloth (why, you can have cloth just hanging with no physical response rather then nothing), breakable tiles (which can be done without physx no problem). That and that nvidia disables ati cards now<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It is all because nvidia pumps $$$ into the pockets of the developers to make sure this happens.

    It is all a scam.

    You need a physx card to show smoke? Are you frikkin kidding me? I can see smoke in crysis which looks 20 times better than any game out right now and I don't have nvidia or physx. How does that happen? I wonder!

    This is why physx failed in the first place and I'm sure nvidia bought it for cheap to be able to use the name, then they make sure all the developers are blowing them so they can make it seem that physx is the most amazing thing ever. When it isn't.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair 日本福岡県 Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos
    I think Max answered the concerns so to prevent this from being a company X vs company Y argument I will lock this. Another mod can clean it up and unlock it if they want.
    Off Topic Disagree Agree Awesome
This discussion has been closed.