Suggestion for Melee Weapon

zex

So in one of the new interviews, it was pointed out that the current Frontiersman melee weapon is a fold-able axe. Not particularly controversial, but also not too exciting, doesn't really get the juices flowing IMHO. So I was looking at the NS2 logo, and... what is that, a gunblade? It pretty much looks like a pistol, with a bayonet integrated into the barrel...

<img src="http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/irock_2006/gunblade.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Now, "futuristic" isn't the first thing to come to mind when thinking of gunblades. But, I submit to you that it could work with the excellent graphic design which UWE is known for. And, it's not entirely unprecedented seeing as it's in the logo and everything. It could add a little more "zing" to the fronteirsman's arsenal, that is for sure.

Wolv3rn3

It's not the NS2 Logo, it's the TSA Logo you mean:

<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/images/ns/fanart/ns-fan-wallpaper3.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/images/ns/fan...-wallpaper3.jpg</a>

And the Meleeweapon in NS2 will be no axe. It's like an electroshocker:

<a href="http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/games/1/10/9998/thumb_620x2000/NS2_Taser_with_notes.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.moddb.com/cache/images/games/..._with_notes.jpg</a>

spellman23

chainsaw guns.

No... wait, train-on-a-gun....

zex

<!--quoteo(post=1735781:date=Nov 3 2009, 07:06 AM:name=Wolv3rn3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wolv3rn3 @ Nov 3 2009, 07:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735781"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not the NS2 Logo, it's the TSA Logo you mean:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/images/ns/fanart/ns-fan-wallpaper3.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/images/ns/fan...-wallpaper3.jpg</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

It's sitting right next to the words "natural selection 2" on the frontpage of this site, and yet you're linking to "NS FAN WALLPAPER" as evidence its not the NS2 logo? Whichever it is, it's an official bit of graphic design created by UWE which depicts a gunblade, which would be pretty damn awesome if it were implemented as a weapon instead of merely as a logo.

<!--quoteo(post=1735781:date=Nov 3 2009, 07:06 AM:name=Wolv3rn3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wolv3rn3 @ Nov 3 2009, 07:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735781"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And the Meleeweapon in NS2 will be no axe. It's like an electroshocker:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Get with the times, man! The melee weapon is an <a href="http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/10/30/interview-unknown-worlds-chats-about-first-natural-selection-2/"" target="_blank">axe!</a> By the way, did you know the Alpha was delayed until 2010?

<!--quoteo(post=1735782:date=Nov 3 2009, 07:06 AM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Nov 3 2009, 07:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735782"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No... wait, train-on-a-gun....<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Come on, seriously? Don't post spam in this thread, if you don't like the idea maybe explain your justification for why the ns2 logo looks like a gunblade, and yet it can't possibly be included in-game?

JAmazon

The gun blade does look pretty bad ass, but I was actually pretty thrilled when I read that the melee weapon would be a foldable axe. I just got this image of a frontiersman heaving a futuristic looking tomahawk at an incoming skulk and it spiraling through the air at its target and making a satisfying thwack as it embedded itself in the skulks face plate. Now I know that we probably wont be able to throw it ala tomahawk but my vote is still for the axe.

side note: Please don't be inflammatory towards someone who's probably new to the community and isn't quite up to speed on the current state of NS2. What is and isn't being implemented changes pretty often.

locallyunscene

I second both of the points in <b>JAmazon</b>'s post.

A badass animation will make all the difference for a fold-able axe. It seems the right amount of low-tech and futuristic to me. A gunblade/bayonet would be less imaginative and not look as cool IMO.

zex

<!--quoteo(post=1735850:date=Nov 3 2009, 04:22 PM:name=locallyunscene)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (locallyunscene @ Nov 3 2009, 04:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735850"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A gunblade/bayonet would be less imaginative and not look as cool IMO.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


Less "imaginative" than an AXE? Not LOOK as cool as an AXE? Are you serious?

<img src="http://www.gerber-tools.com/images/Camp-Axe-large-5905.gif" border="0" class="linked-image" /><img src="http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/irock_2006/gunblade.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Also JAMAZON, I suggest you read my post again if you think I was "inflammatory." My post was well within the common bounds of civility on this forum.

locallyunscene

<!--quoteo(post=1735856:date=Nov 3 2009, 11:37 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 3 2009, 11:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1735856"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Less "imaginative" than an AXE? Not LOOK as cool as an AXE? Are you serious?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well that's all opinion, but yes I do think that a switchblade axe is more interesting than a knife welded to a gun.

Also, the source material is much different. A gunblade is very steampunk(and anime) and the retro influences come from a melding of the 19th century with the present. NS1 is retro, but in more of a 1980's(alien) style future. I think the axe is a better fit overall, but that's still opinion of course.

zex

I agree with you partially about the gunblade concept being retro - except that my source material is UWE's art, so it must necessarily fit as part of their fiction. I dont have a problem per se with the axe, except that a tool for chopping vegetation doesn't really fit on a spaceship or mining colony context, I just think gunblade would A) tie gameplay into the logo, and B)spice things up a little bit, get a little farther away from traditional present-day weapons like axes or tasers.

pallie

My main argument against gunblade is that it seems very weak, you can stab or slice a little with it but not nearly enough to chop a skulk in half. A nice sharp foldable axe however could chop a skulk right in half =)

PhiXX

Yep and axes are much more effective against bone(shield) than knifes.

zex

<!--quoteo(post=1736072:date=Nov 4 2009, 02:15 PM:name=pallie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pallie @ Nov 4 2009, 02:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736072"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My main argument against gunblade is that it seems very weak<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

True, the revolver one does look useless. As a bayonette, it's primarily for stabbing rather than slashing. However you promted me to give a little thought to the ergonomics, and I'd say a curved Machete blade would be optimal for both stabbing and slashing. A machete is weilded one-handed, much like a gunblade, and designed for optimal slashing strength. Here's a quick sketch of what it could look like, modeled on the unpopular NS2 taser:

<img src="http://content.screencast.com/users/mattemuse/folders/Jing/media/e2703e1e-bef9-40f2-acd7-e80803fb671d/gunblade.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Silverwing

<!--quoteo(post=1736098:date=Nov 4 2009, 10:55 AM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 4 2009, 10:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736098"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->True, the revolver one does look useless. As a bayonette, it's primarily for stabbing rather than slashing. However you promted me to give a little thought to the ergonomics, and I'd say a curved Machete blade would be optimal for both stabbing and slashing. A machete is weilded one-handed, much like a gunblade, and designed for optimal slashing strength. Here's a quick sketch of what it could look like, modeled on the unpopular NS2 taser:

<img src="http://content.screencast.com/users/mattemuse/folders/Jing/media/e2703e1e-bef9-40f2-acd7-e80803fb671d/gunblade.png" border="0" class="linked-image" /><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I was skeptical but you are starting to intrigue me, young one.
You may proceed with the idea and the making of further sketches.

Now, go.

/me returns to sleep

zex

<!--quoteo(post=1736111:date=Nov 4 2009, 04:25 PM:name=Silverwing)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silverwing @ Nov 4 2009, 04:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736111"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now, go.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Lol, uh, thanks? I'm open to the idea of creating further sketches - I don't think I fully succeeded in depicting a balanced, machete-like weapon yet. The gun handle needs to be straighter, and the blade needs to be longer... anything else I should add?

BadMouth

The axe would be a more brutal weapon than a gunblade. The fact that you have to use 2 hands to wield and axe makes it feel so much more deadly. And I would rather have the marine have that kind of feel. The gunblade on the other hand, feels slick, and to use it, one would need flow. Makes me think of those fight sequences in FFVII: AC with the gunblades. And that would not be in the feel of NS2.

It's just too much JRPG for me.

zex

<!--quoteo(post=1736171:date=Nov 4 2009, 08:22 PM:name=BadMouth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BadMouth @ Nov 4 2009, 08:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736171"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The axe would be a more brutal weapon than a gunblade. The fact that you have to use 2 hands to wield and axe<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Obviously this is just speculation on my part, but it seems more likely that it's a one-handed tomohawk-type axe like the image I posted. A two-handed battleaxe would be awesome but is even more out of place in a scifi setting than a tomohawk would be. My money is on a little one-handed axe, reminds me of Quake.

As far as FFVII:AC, I haven't seen the movie you are referring to - all I know is that a gunblade is both an archaic real-world weapon and also depicted in the NS2 logo. Maybe UWE was going for a JRPG look in their logo, i have no idea. The logo doesn't feel particularly "japanese" or "RPG-ish" to me, though. Looks more future-retro, kind of like the Warhammer 4k/Dawn of War universe or something like that.

pallie

That's a nice sketch zex but the curve between the handle and the blade makes it impossible to put good force behind the blade and a decrease or removal of the curve would make it impossible to aim as a gun. what about a pistol with a tazer at the end though ? XD

zex

<!--quoteo(post=1736180:date=Nov 4 2009, 09:01 PM:name=pallie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pallie @ Nov 4 2009, 09:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736180"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's a nice sketch zex but the curve between the handle and the blade makes it impossible to put good force behind the blade<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I'm not happy with the curve in my sketch, I want to do another one which matches the machete reference I was using. I think a happy medium would make it possible to both aim and swing. Machetes are actually curved like that to maximize the cutting power, so I don't think putting force behind the blade is an issue.

JAmazon

That sketch looks pretty awesome. Honestly, while I still much prefer the tomohawk type one-handed axe, I would love to see a modification made to include a pistol blade like this. Hell I might even try doing it myself.

Loey

id take the combat knife over a gun blade because it feels more versatile and trying to stab/slash something with a knife attached to a weapon is more awkward than you think. the fold out axe should be 2 handed, if it were to be 1 handed, you might as well keep the knife.

Temphage

Actually, instead of something weird like a Tomahawk, I'd rather see the melee 'axe' weapon be just more of a utility tool that the Frontiersmen all have somewhat like a fireaxe. Something that would make sense for them to all have - Remember that they are breaking in to derelict ships and stations (or something like that), so inevitably they're going to come across debris, infestation, blocked doors, etc.

This could actually lead to some interesting map mechanics if you integrated it fully - have jammed doors that only marines can access similar to welding, but they just need to spend a few minutes prying at it with their axes... infestation could be cleared by just chopping it all down.

pallie

I disagree with all the 2hand axes people. A foldable hatchet or a gunblade sounds awesome but Ireally don't see a marine carrying around a 2H Axe.

magicboom

I would prefer something like an electric rod. That you can hit an enemy with and cause temporary paralysis or sluggish movement and vision.

However, didn't the team already say they were going to have some kind of taser weapon?

PhiXX

<!--quoteo(post=1736338:date=Nov 5 2009, 04:20 PM:name=magicboom)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (magicboom @ Nov 5 2009, 04:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736338"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->However, didn't the team already say they were going to have some kind of taser weapon?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah they did, and got immediatly flamed by all the guys who never played NS2 but are sure what fits and what not...

BadMouth

The dev team said that they retracted the idea of the taser, not because of the number of hate on the forums, but due to their own decision on the gameplay mechanics.

And on topic, I still think the gunblade would be too flimsy a weapon and doesn't have that feel of power behind it.

Loey

hold a pistol and swing it around trying to hit someone with the barrel. theres no power behind the swing and its awkward as hell not to mention ridiculous. if you want a blade on gun as the melee weapon, then attach a bayonet to a rifle. its more practical in combat, more powerful and has more range.

i also dont see why marines would carry a 1 handed tomahawk style axe around. if you're going to carry an axe its because you'll be using it to smash through things in which case you'll be using a 2 handed axe. a knife is a much better melee weapon than an single handed axe. knives can be use in a thrust, slash or over head stab motion where as an axe is limited to chop attack.

zex

<!--quoteo(post=1736423:date=Nov 5 2009, 11:02 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Nov 5 2009, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736423"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->hold a pistol and swing it around trying to hit someone with the barrel. theres no power behind the swing and its awkward<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That's because, with the right angle between the grip and the barrel, the longer the "handle" is, the more power you can get behind it. Since the grip of a gun is shorter than the barrel, there's no force. However, of you hold a gun by the barrel and strike with the shorter grip, you can get more force behind it.

On the other hand, with a gunblade, the angle would be closer to 135 degrees or more, like a Kukri blade or machete. This curve is actually used in real-world weapons to increase cutting power. Your constructive criticism isn't necessarily valid given the differences in weapon design between pistols and my gunblade concept.

<!--quoteo(post=1736423:date=Nov 5 2009, 11:02 PM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Nov 5 2009, 11:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736423"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i also dont see why marines would carry a 1 handed tomahawk style axe around. if you're going to carry an axe its because you'll be using it to smash through things<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I don't see why space marines who exclusively fight in mining colonies and space craft would carry an axe at all. What are they going to smash through, rocks? Metal? Doesn't make much sense to me.

VonDoom

BEZERKER PACK!

NOTHING WRONG ABOUT YOU I CANT FIX! WITH MY HANDS!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yc5bnOrSc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8yc5bnOrSc</a>

zex

whelp, looks like axe is in, replacing the knife.

C4K3

<!--quoteo(post=1736424:date=Nov 5 2009, 05:12 PM:name=zex)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (zex @ Nov 5 2009, 05:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1736424"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't see why space marines who exclusively fight in mining colonies and space craft would carry an axe at all. What are they going to smash through, rocks? Metal? Doesn't make much sense to me.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

+1

This is the kind of stupid / weird small things killing the greatness of NS as a whole. You are doing it wrong. A knife is 1000x useful under whatever conditions, thats why every army has knifes since forever and pretty sure they will keep it for a bunch of good reasons posted here before several times. Axes were used by barbarians, hence they got rolled by more sophisticated, flexible and modern weapon-tools. Before the barbarian hordes, the axes were made by macaques using random stones and sticks, kinda channeled to you game design. Also the NS logo has a knife for a reason, before the general alzheimer.

I'm really getting tired of reading all the trash in every new update. You lost me since skulks has no parasite, onos got gagged (by who is the real question) lerks can't bite and aliens have commander; jsut to not mention flametowers in space, with limited / small amounts of oxigen for humans LOL, you must be kidding. What a bad joke guys. I despise what you did to your own game. I hate you hardcore for make it fail so hard.

BadMouth

I really do not understand what's wrong with using an axe. It would be able to give you a longer reach than a knife and has the power to do serious damage to an alien because of the weight behind it. And considering that the skulks are more beefier, the marines could use that extra power. And since it's foldable, there is no issue on storage.

Personally, when I was in the army, I would have preferred an axe to a knife. The only thing more useful in having a knife is the option to attach it to your weapon as a bayonet and frankly, that's not a viable option. The weapons in NS2, or NS, don't seem to allow for bayonet attachment anyway.