NS2 and all the adds
Apollonius999
Join Date: 2009-09-09 Member: 68725Members
Join Date: 2009-09-09 Member: 68725Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Discuss please</div>Ok so i've been reading updates, things like HA punching a skulk, gorges belly sliding, knockback, and all this extra jazz.
Is this really helping or going to hurt the game? I mean seriously do you know how many people are laughing while reading all these extra addons that make the game look like a joke? What happened to nice and simple. NS1 has a learning curve yea it's hard and not many even now understand and can be good at it. That alone is also a reason to play the game and keep people around.
How much further will things go before enough is enough?
Is this really helping or going to hurt the game? I mean seriously do you know how many people are laughing while reading all these extra addons that make the game look like a joke? What happened to nice and simple. NS1 has a learning curve yea it's hard and not many even now understand and can be good at it. That alone is also a reason to play the game and keep people around.
How much further will things go before enough is enough?
Comments
Is this really helping or going to hurt the game? I mean seriously do you know how many people are laughing while reading all these extra addons that make the game look like a joke? What happened to nice and simple. NS1 has a learning curve yea it's hard and not many even now understand and can be good at it. That alone is also a reason to play the game and keep people around.
How much further will things go before enough is enough?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Joke? What is a joke?
HA Punch, knockback, pistol phosphorous mark, belly slide are ok, for me. In my opinion, they're not there to make the game fun, but to make it more interesting.
Very nice to see a marine punching a skulk to the wall or a gorge belly sliding to flee faster. :)
Yea honestly punching or ripping a skulk would be awesome. But how far can you pull someone until they get over all the extras and flip them off because of how useless or just how menial they are to the actual game.
Fleeing away is great, but if 3/4 the glitching from ns1 start comes to ns2, it just won't be what it should.
All i'm saying is i see a LOT of rage coming.
If everyone else says otherwise hey, maybe it's just me, i'm just listening to the people who play now and still keep their flagship alive.
Basically, I doubt any amount of rage or whining on the forums could possibly be a predictor for the game quality, or the perception of it's quality when it comes out. I haven't played NS in years, but I'm eagerly awaiting NS2 and and attempting to tune out the raging screams on the forums. I'd bet most people who will be playing NS2 will be people coming back from a long absence of NS1.
As for all these people you claim call the updates a joke and will rage, I'd pass that message on to them too.
At the end of the day noone should whine about any of these things until you actually test them. Like most things in life you wont know what it's like until you actually experience it. Be optimistic and if you don't like what you see when you play it, then you can whine about it ;p
Script FTW. Bet ya my left pinkie that people will script a NS1 rip-off to make it "what it should have been".
So don't worry. Everyone will get what they want.
They said before that making weapons was under a hundred lines of LUA-code or something for a generic weapon, what they are bringing up is just something they're bringing into the creativity pool that we'll have to dissect once we can play the game.
For instance, how fun would it be if we got our hands on NS2, and all the weapons we could use was only all replicas of the old system? This is pretty much the time for them to try new things, if you want to be a part of the process I suggest being a playtester is going to help the game much more than shooting down the ideas before you can try them.
The new things are indeed silly but then most innovative ideas are at first. I endorsed the belly-slide mostly on the animation level so it can be used for mods, I'd be amazed if it will work in the actual gameplay. But maybe this belly-slide will make playing the supportive-role Gorge a lot more fun for everyone? Not to mention that maybe more will play this "medic" kind of character and contribute more than they would as a Fade.
Script FTW. Bet ya my left pinkie that people will script a NS1 rip-off to make it "what it should have been".
So don't worry. Everyone will get what they want.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Totally agree. There will be all kind of mods and i bet there will be mod that replicates ns1
-stuff-
How much further will things go before enough is enough?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
when the marines get hot-air balloons, with altitude controlled by flame throwers, I will start getting worried. But not really, because I'll still be excited about the engine technology and modding potential.
Oh, and the aliens totally need a new 'scary' unit, Onos just isn't big or bad enough anymore...I propose the oHELLnos as a bigger, badder game-ending alien that will once again make the marines simply turn and run when they see it. I'd describe it, but I was too busy running to get a good look.
/silly
I think at some point someone suggested that the hive should be able to sprout legs and then the alien comm can wreak havoc. That would be absolutely terrifying :P
It's tough when you're gangsta, you have to keep your name clear out on the hoods and mark your territory. You can't let other people change the rules.
It should be obvious that they would disagree about the new additions adding depth to the gameplay.
Get a clue. What OP is saying is that a lot of these new suggestions are of that type. Their gimmicky. Sure they may work out, but so could have any of the 2523523 hair-brained ideas that were suggested in the past; it's why our lerks flap.
Get a clue. What OP is saying is that a lot of these new suggestions are of that type. Their gimmicky. Sure they may work out, but so could have any of the 2523523 hair-brained ideas that were suggested in the past; it's why our lerks flap.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sure, but it's not like the OP is bringing up any <i>reasons</i> he thinks all the additions are bad. He's just saying "I don't like change". It that context I'd say "playtest it first" is a fair counterargument. It's not like there are any other points to refute in this case.
STOP comparing features of NS2 to NS1. Personally, though, I would of paid $100 to play NS2 just as an NS1 port on to the new engine.
There was a group of people so distraught about it that they decided to go and make their own mod that was more or less a conversion of TFC. Before TF2 was released, the mod was herald the return of TF and the 'proper' sequel it deserved.
Now that every thing is all said and done and both TF2 and the mod in question have been released ... I wonder which have the larger numbers.
There is nothing anywhere suggesting that once the <b>alpha</b> to the game is released, it will be completely done and incapable of any changes if people don't like the changes.
I fail to see why people are getting so worked up about things before they even get a chance to try them.
TF2 removed grenades and it was one of the best things ever done for the game. When I first heard of the change, I was worried because the grenade was such a staple of how the game was played, but the change was absolutely for the better. I make that comment being someone who first played the original game on QTF when it was first released and someone who was quite obsessed with it.
Also, way to compare a little known mod to the official sequel made by the developers who also packaged the game with two highly anticipated games.
NS2 may not be NS1 but the core fundamentals of NS1, in my opinion, should be present in NS2. I see those fundamentals as 1) teamwork 2) different teams with different playstyles 3) a commander and 4) fast paced gameplay. When NS1 vets get upset because of the lockdown ability, for example, it's because lockdown goes directly against one of the reasons why NS1 was great. Then everyone else floods in with "wait to playtest" or "NS2 does not equal NS1" as if that somehow adds something to the conversation.
The 'little known mod' was actually quite well known at the time specifically <b>because</b> it claimed it was going to take TF 'back to its roots' and be the fast paced game play that the original was. To this extent, it probably has succeeded. It is faster paced, is more 'true' to the original and the people that play it claim that the 'skill ceiling' is higher than that of TF2. So then, why the low numbers of players? Shouldn't people who have been playing TF for <b>years</b>, like myself, be flocking to this mod?
In addition, classifying it as a 'mod vs a full fledged project' is kind of funny. Isn't that what is going on here, right now? People comparing a full product vs a mod? As well as many mod teams have gone on to make their mods as full product games because they were that good. Saying something along the lines of them 'just' being a mod team vs a huge developer is irrelevant, because if the <b>game</b> they made was <b>that</b> good, people would be flocking to it. Not to mention, the people who originally made the first TF are the same people who worked on TF2. I'm sure that the addition of other games into the orange pack helped sales quite a bit, but its not the only reason TF2 is successful. There are thousands of people playing it every day and is one of valves highest played games to this day. I bet the mod in question would love to have half their numbers.
I still fail to see why you can be so upset about changes that you haven't even tried yet. If teamwork isn't were it needs to be, I see no reason why UWE would <b>not</b> change that aspect of the game before the product was released. The same can be said for every other comment you made as well. If the game play is some how horrendously slow ... why in the world do you think Flayra would not change this if the people playing the game hated it?
I bring up the grenade change in TF2 because its nearly an identical situation going on with this game. Fans cried up and down the isles and said they have literally ruined the game. Absolutely. The grenades are a huge part of the game play and Valve had since completely gimped the game. For months and years this went on. Turns out, the game is much better with out them. The things the players <b>thought</b> they needed, turned out they didn't need as much as they thought they did. The game has been a huge success and while its true that some of the 'die hard fans' who loved QWTF/TFC hate TF2, the vast majority of the player base loves it. In the end, it just comes to you can't please everyone and no matter what you do, someone will hate it.
All the crap being said ... I've never said anyone was <b>wrong</b> for what they thought, rather I wish they would really just try the changes before they write them off, because they some how know better than the devs how to make their game.
I just went back and deleted half of this. Nothing I am saying will change anyone's mind who insisting to be butt hurt over these changes. There is absolutely no negative to waiting until the game is playable and forming decisions based on actual game play - rather than theory crafting. There is, however, quite the negative of insisting you never see a feature in the game because of some sort of fear the game will some how be dramatically changed in some sort of magical way. The game play will most certainly be different. I don't expect why people assume this not to be the case.
Progress isn't a bad thing. If people insisted on playing the same games they had in the past, we'd all be playing Pong v393. Just with some kick ass graphics.
lol fail harder.
lol fail harder.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
fail harder? Really? Nice counter point you have provided.
Tell me ... what exactly about obtaining a fraction of the numbers Valve has with TF2 would be such a horrible thing for UWE?
What I <b>am</b> suggesting is that you try the game before you insist something will not work.
What I'm trying to compare it to if TF2's grenade change, which was better for the game.
You can hate TF2 all you'd like, every one is entitled to their opinion. But I can guarantee you one thing;
UWE have every intention of making NS2 succeed. It's about making a game they love, but more importantly, its about making a game that will actually allow their company to <b>exist</b>.
If UWE can make a game as - or more - successful as TF2, then they will be quite happy with the product. If a few people are upset because its not 'true to the original' ... well, they can always go make the NS Forever mod. From what I hear, this LUA code (is that even right?) is supposed to be stupid easy compared to making a HL mod ... or something, I guess. I don't program.
It just goes back to not being able to please everyone. You can't. In the end, quite a few people wont like this game for what ever reasons they wont like it. Who's to say I won't be one of those people? Perhaps Flayra will take the game in a direction I don't want to. Will it suck? Sure ... but I'm not going to demand his first born over it. If the game is successful, I will be happy for him and look forward to the next game that he makes.
But I'm at least willing to try the damn thing, before I write it off as something that is a horrible failure.
The fact that people are legitimately worried that Charlie&co are going to put in stupid things like walking hives and marine kung-fu is a bit of a tip off for what sort of people they are. The fact that people are whining about a game they have not only never played, but don't even know the first thing about gameplay tells the whole tale.
The forums at current state are a cesspit of pre-emptive whining and dev-slamming.
Still, that just completely shuts down the discussion. Let them rage and maybe throw in a theory how the changes could serve the gameplay. 75% of the discussion here is completely irrelevant until we get the alpha, but at least I still find it interesting to see what kind of ideas people have about NS' strenghts, weaknesses and future goals.
Allow me to be more specific:
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Silver_Fox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Silver_Fox)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If UWE can make a game as - or more - successful as TF2, then they will be quite happy with the product.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Look around - mainstream gaming is taking off, it's where the money is. Don't think for a second they couldn't sell milllions if they gave the gorge a sims wardrobe and called it modern warfare. So your opinion short-sights our entire stance as traditional players. It's not about sales, it's not about success - it's about whether or not you sell-out to them. TF2 is a sell-out; adding 'cool addons', making NS 'easier to play' and 'more quick to pick up' will make NS a sell-out too. So no - you can't please them all, but if you care about integrity, you'll please the ones that were with you from the start.
any idea can be play tested to work, but there's merit in drawing caution to gimmicks that shouldn't ever be.
I just hope that the game is successful, regardless of whether or not its a great competitive game, or a more casual retardfest. Obviously the former would be much better for all of us :P If UWE caters only to the niche market the game will probably fail to pull profits and we'll never see another UWE game again. So please understand that their not trying to ruin the game because its fun to see you whine. Their livelihood is actually at stake here.