Kharaa/Marine only lights

slayer20

<div class="IPBDescription">Some might think this is useless...</div>I was thinking that there should be specific light settings that only Marines or Kharaa could see.

For example, a vent. Let's say there is a slightly dark room, or any room for example. Now let's say this said room has a vent in it that doesn't really stand out.

If, for example, an alien needs to make a quick get-a-away, and doesn't know where to go, I think it would be nice to have a specific light setting that only Kharaa (or marines) could see. This could be used to set these certain lights in front of vents (or anything else you can think of) to make them stand out a bit, but not draw the attention of the player too much, hence why I would only want this light in front of said vent to be visible for the kharaa.

Get what I'm saying?

Edit: Another example from a different game would be Mirror's Edge. Interactive objects would be bright red. I'm not saying we should make the vents or whatever bright red to stand out completely, but use a light to brighten up the area around a vent for the player to see if said vent is hidden in the dark...


Still get what I'm saying?

Megahalo

<!--quoteo(post=1740671:date=Nov 26 2009, 08:37 PM:name=slayer20)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(slayer20 @ Nov 26 2009, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1740671"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was thinking that there should be specific light settings that only Marines or Kharaa could see.

For example, a vent. Let's say there is a slightly dark room, or any room for example. Now let's say this said room has a vent in it that doesn't really stand out.

If, for example, an alien needs to make a quick get-a-away, and doesn't know where to go, I think it would be nice to have a specific light setting that only Kharaa (or marines) could see. This could be used to set these certain lights in front of vents (or anything else you can think of) to make them stand out a bit, but not draw the attention of the player too much, hence why I would only want this light in front of said vent to be visible for the kharaa.

Get what I'm saying?

Edit: Another example from a different game would be Mirror's Edge. Interactive objects would be bright red. I'm not saying we should make the vents or whatever bright red to stand out completely, but use a light to brighten up the area around a vent for the player to see if said vent is hidden in the dark...
Still get what I'm saying?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Actually, I kinda like the sound of this idea... even if its not for anything official or even an official gamemode, something like this could be used for interesting custom gamemodes.

Comprox

Moved to I&S.

Daworm

I like the idea of the name, but more so on a "lights react to marines or kharaa only" so the kharaa drop a node in the room. Lights come up but different colour (green?)"

Marines do the same, lights are blue.

No point hand-holding people's hands who don't think to explore their terrain :)

Temphage

<!--quoteo(post=1740677:date=Nov 27 2009, 02:12 AM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Daworm @ Nov 27 2009, 02:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1740677"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the idea of the name, but more so on a "lights react to marines or kharaa only" so the kharaa drop a node in the room. Lights come up but different colour (green?)"

Marines do the same, lights are blue.

No point hand-holding people's hands who don't think to explore their terrain :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That'd be great if that had anything to do whatsoever with what he was actually talking about.

slayer20

A good picture example would be this: <a href="http://imgur.com/mxgcG.jpg" target="_blank">http://imgur.com/mxgcG.jpg</a>

The image was taken by Crispix. The light right in front of the vent.

Chris0132

Could be useful but I think you should probably also couple it with some sort of highlight entity, which highlights the geometry as well, along with player only particle systems, like kharaa may not see steam very much, and instead get a good view of the vent and the room while a marine might see steam coming out of it which obscures it somewhat, or you could add like a pheromone trail particle near vents for kharaa only, as if the hive or common alien presence in vents marks them and other popular alien routes to the hive sight.

Terr

Lights which affect the world, but only operate for one team or another... That could be very useful. It would be excellent for making a "dark vent" that is spooky for Marines but intuitively noticeable and usable by Kharaa players. The only downside is that it may make it tricky for a Kharaa player to <i>know</i> that the vent looks dark to marines, which would affect how they use it.

Lights which affect players depending on the player's team... <i>May</i> be worthwhile, especially when it comes to balancing a particular room so that both sides are equally visible to one-another.

Bacillus

Even if a marine can't enter the vent, he should make a mental note of it's position to expect enemies to use it. I think some clearly distinct alien signal (for example pheromones were mentioned already) would be better so that people recognize it's absence while playing marines. That way people aren't directed to rely on the light's guidance while it isn't there.

In general I'd try to keep the maps as similar looking as possible for both teams. Learning the same map twice isn't purposeful. The uniqueness of the sides can still be achieved on how they use the maps. For example kharaa dominate the ceiling and airspace while marines try to avoid cramped locations.

BadMouth

Kind of like what left for dead did by highlighting items, objectives, switches and stuff? I think it would be good to have the highlighting, and not exactly "lighting". Unless we mean the same thing

slayer20

<!--quoteo(post=1740773:date=Nov 27 2009, 09:28 AM:name=BadMouth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BadMouth @ Nov 27 2009, 09:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1740773"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Kind of like what left for dead did by highlighting items, objectives, switches and stuff? I think it would be good to have the highlighting, and not exactly "lighting". Unless we mean the same thing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Yeah something like that, but instead of highlighting, you can use actual lights. This could be used to make certain areas brighter for the aliens, and darker for the marines, or vice-versa.

Like maybe if there is an outdoors type area, maybe aliens would see natural light differently from the way humans see it.

It could definitely add some interesting stuff...

Terr

Yeah, a particle effect would work, because little orange steam puffs would clearly be different from the actual color of the walls etc.

So what we <b>really</b> need is the ability to create particle-emitters which only appear for one team or another, and that have it possible to tune their brightness independently of how dark the room is.

Complementing that, the mapper should be able to place "hud sprites" for marines, somehow placing sprites (or tagging areas) which will have some sort of result in the heads-up-display.

slayer20

<!--quoteo(post=1741003:date=Nov 27 2009, 09:27 PM:name=Terr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Terr @ Nov 27 2009, 09:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Complementing that, the mapper should be able to place "hud sprites" for marines, somehow placing sprites (or tagging areas) which will have some sort of result in the heads-up-display.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Now that's a good idea!

I have an idea in my head for that...will post back later.

Temphage

As Terr said, it's a good idea to make dark spots not-so-dark for aliens, but not knowing how dark it really is would hurt you just as much. I'm more in favor of a vision mode to toggle it on and off at least.

Chris0132

<!--quoteo(post=1741003:date=Nov 27 2009, 09:27 PM:name=Terr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Terr @ Nov 27 2009, 09:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741003"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah, a particle effect would work, because little orange steam puffs would clearly be different from the actual color of the walls etc.

So what we <b>really</b> need is the ability to create particle-emitters which only appear for one team or another, and that have it possible to tune their brightness independently of how dark the room is.

Complementing that, the mapper should be able to place "hud sprites" for marines, somehow placing sprites (or tagging areas) which will have some sort of result in the heads-up-display.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Well also, inside vents should be better lit for aliens than for marines, marines could have it be always dark but aliens can see fine, so both lights and effects. I think just giving the lights a particular quality, like for example a watery caustic effect could indicate it's just for aliens and not a part of the level, all the 'hive sight' related modifications should have a similar theme, so hive light, hive particle effects, hive highlighting of marines, all of it should look part of the same theme. If you do that it will be clear that it's an alien ability.

<a href="http://www.mpi-inf.mpg.de/departments/irg3/ws0304/lcn/projects/Michael/two_spheres_water.png" target="_blank">http://www.mpi-inf.mpg.de/departments/irg3...heres_water.png</a>

<!--quoteo(post=1741168:date=Nov 28 2009, 08:28 AM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Temphage @ Nov 28 2009, 08:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741168"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As Terr said, it's a good idea to make dark spots not-so-dark for aliens, but not knowing how dark it really is would hurt you just as much. I'm more in favor of a vision mode to toggle it on and off at least.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Trouble with vision modes like that is that people would probably leave it on all the time, unless you add some drawback in which case it kinda defeats the point of having it, the idea is that it lets aliens navigate around their areas more easily, if they have to use that navigation vision sparingly it will seriously limit its usefulness.

BadMouth

Why not have it like a mode like alien flashlight. You turn it on, and everything of importance lights up, pretty much like the marines. And all the textures and colours of the non-important stuff still remains in place. As for marines, you can have this mode that you can turn on, that will make it like the batcowl vision, kind of like in batman. Everything of importance gets pointed out to you, but instead of draining all the colours and swapping it with a washed out palette, keep the colours of the maps and everything and only leave the cool indicators.

Chris0132

Then as I said, why bother having it turn on and off if you don't have a reason to turn it off?

Either it makes the game look crap when on, but has no other drawbacks in which case people leave it on for gameplay advantage but the game looks crap (batman), or it makes the game look fine when on, in which case why does it need to be toggleable? As I said if you make it so these lights and effects seem integrated into the alien hive sight but not so over the top that they make it look like some sort of gameplay overlay, it doesn't need to be toggleable.

The goal should be to integrate the alien vision bonuses into the game and visual theme enough so that it actually looks like another mode of vision, as though these are natural things the aliens can all do, it is inherent to their nature but at the same time, it doesn't make the game look crap.

FocusedWolf

<!--quoteo(post=1740671:date=Nov 26 2009, 08:37 PM:name=slayer20)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(slayer20 @ Nov 26 2009, 08:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1740671"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was thinking that there should be specific light settings that only Marines or Kharaa could see.

For example, a vent. Let's say there is a slightly dark room, or any room for example. Now let's say this said room has a vent in it that doesn't really stand out.

If, for example, an alien needs to make a quick get-a-away, and doesn't know where to go, I think it would be nice to have a specific light setting that only Kharaa (or marines) could see. This could be used to set these certain lights in front of vents (or anything else you can think of) to make them stand out a bit, but not draw the attention of the player too much, hence why I would only want this light in front of said vent to be visible for the kharaa.

Get what I'm saying?

Edit: Another example from a different game would be Mirror's Edge. Interactive objects would be bright red. I'm not saying we should make the vents or whatever bright red to stand out completely, but use a light to brighten up the area around a vent for the player to see if said vent is hidden in the dark...
Still get what I'm saying?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I like this idea, but would like it to be implemented as follows... i.e. the map maker can have a texture and lighting which only aliens can see... i.e. the map maker may make a pheromone-based path on the floor leading somewhere (that aliens can only see), and perhaps rooms can possess extra lighting in dark areas to aid aliens (implying they can see in the dark, as much as the map maker wishes to unbalance the game :P).

Just the same... marines can see holograms and stuff on otherwise bland doorways that read out useful stuff like (Storage Room A, motion detected inside :P)... i.e. augmented-vision (provided by their visor). Maybe even, if the map maker wishes, a vent can be illuminated and outlined in a pheromone goo visible to aliens only, and to marines they see a blue rectangle drawn around it and a text label above "Vent leading to Storage Room A".

RobB

My <a href="http://s1.directupload.net/images/091130/stye5ro6.jpg" target="_blank">suggestion</a> for this would be that Vents have a certain feature added to them so that aliens see a wobbly circle in dark vents that describe the features in the dark and show hidden marines by being overlaped by them.
Marines in turn know how those vents run as they have a connection to the mainframe after all. Depending on the mapper it might even be possible to illustrate how the infection corrupted the installation.


see <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5_k9huLrjQ" target="_blank">this</a> short clip @ 1:40 from stargate:atlantis and imagine shepperd's saying "comm, HUD says here should be a staircase!"

Chris0132

<!--quoteo(post=1741542:date=Nov 29 2009, 08:12 PM:name=FocusedWolf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FocusedWolf @ Nov 29 2009, 08:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1741542"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like this idea, but would like it to be implemented as follows... i.e. the map maker can have a texture and lighting which only aliens can see... i.e. the map maker may make a pheromone-based path on the floor leading somewhere (that aliens can only see), and perhaps rooms can possess extra lighting in dark areas to aid aliens (implying they can see in the dark, as much as the map maker wishes to unbalance the game :P).

Just the same... marines can see holograms and stuff on otherwise bland doorways that read out useful stuff like (Storage Room A, motion detected inside :P)... i.e. augmented-vision (provided by their visor). Maybe even, if the map maker wishes, a vent can be illuminated and outlined in a pheromone goo visible to aliens only, and to marines they see a blue rectangle drawn around it and a text label above "Vent leading to Storage Room A".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Now that you mention that... what about if aliens can't see signs?

Signs are supposedly going to be procedural, so what's to stop any sign using the procedural system from being indecipherable gibberish to the aliens whereas marines see it clearly? Make some sort of heavily broken and fragmented font and swap it out when you're an alien, as well as fading the words against the background to make them hard to see, whereas for marines (because humans have good pattern recognition for words) would see them clearly.

Aliens could have their own set of pheromone markers and things which marines can't see, and which point the way to the nearest hive room and highlight vents and things, but aliens can't see any marine signs.

That'd really sell the idea that marines and aliens are quite different from each other.

Terr

The problem with the "smaller special cone of view" for Kharaa is that it doesn't have quite the same impact at making entrances visible to new players. If you have to be looking at them in order to see 'em in the first place...