<!--quoteo(post=1742138:date=Dec 2 2009, 03:23 PM:name=doeseph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(doeseph @ Dec 2 2009, 03:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742138"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No I mean the 4-6 hour campaign, cooperative Spec-Ops mode (easily adds another 10+ hours to the single-player experience while also featuring custom maps), 35+ weapon choices, 15+ weapon attachments, all new perks with pro-versions, death streaks, kill streaks, leader boards, challenges, emblems+titles, a ranking system up to 70 along with a prestige bonus, 15 multilayer modes, a top-notch soundtrack by Hans Zimmer, top-notch voice over + sound effects, and an amazing proprietary engine capable of fantastic visuals...brah.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wow, you're including basic gameplay features such as weapons, abilities, and when the game <i>recognizes</i> a player on kill or death streak as "premium content?" Sounds like somebrah had to stretch that one out. That brah, is you, brah.
I do not expect NS2 to be lacking in gameplay when compared to any modern game released and if I were to track my time spend playing NS2, assuming it's fun is somewhat near NS1, I'd predict my time spent playing NS2 is going to be far superior to that of other games.
I was waiting for Temphage to post in this thread because he lost his mind about this topic in the other similar thread I linked to earlier. I find the idea that gamers expect some "refund" or "lowered price" for ads in a video game to be so irrational that it's funny. Next time you go to pay your cable television bill remind that that they've played ads and as such you'd like a refund (at one point in time cable television was attractive because it was ad free). Demand a lower price on magizines, movie tickets, newspapers, virtually any form of media because they contain ads. Be sure to come back here and let us know how far you get.
<!--quoteo(post=1742166:date=Dec 2 2009, 05:31 PM:name=doeseph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(doeseph @ Dec 2 2009, 05:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742166"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->besides the initial previews before the feature film the movie didn't pause to show us an advertisement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So you're okay with initial advertisements in movies but not initial advertisements in NS2 (ie: ads in the readyroom). I don't see a difference.
<!--quoteo(post=1742138:date=Dec 2 2009, 08:23 PM:name=doeseph)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(doeseph @ Dec 2 2009, 08:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742138"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No I mean the 4-6 hour campaign, cooperative Spec-Ops mode (easily adds another 10+ hours to the single-player experience while also featuring custom maps), 35+ weapon choices, 15+ weapon attachments, all new perks with pro-versions, death streaks, kill streaks, leader boards, challenges, emblems+titles, a ranking system up to 70 along with a prestige bonus, 15 multilayer modes, a top-notch soundtrack by Hans Zimmer, top-notch voice over + sound effects, and an amazing proprietary engine capable of fantastic visuals...brah.
It's easy to hate on MW2 because of the hype and personally I can't even believe I'm defending it because I'm not a fan of Infinity Ward, but it's well worth the 60$ price tag and far surpasses most games in terms of content, or in this case Natural Selection 2. And don't get me wrong "brah", I bought the 40$ version of Natural Selection 2 because I know it's going to be a fantastic game. But I'm under no delusions that it will lack quite a bit of content because of the nature of UWE and the project.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Now divide that $60 pricetag and content by everything that was directly copy-pasted from MW1.
ThansalThe New ScumJoin Date: 2002-08-22Member: 1215Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1742159:date=Dec 2 2009, 05:55 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SentrySteve @ Dec 2 2009, 05:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I was waiting for Temphage to post in this thread because he lost his mind about this topic in the other similar thread I linked to earlier. I find the idea that gamers expect some "refund" or "lowered price" for ads in a video game to be so irrational that it's funny. Next time you go to pay your cable television bill remind that that they've played ads and as such you'd like a refund (at one point in time cable television was attractive because it was ad free). Demand a lower price on magazines, movie tickets, newspapers, virtually any form of media because they contain ads. Be sure to come back here and let us know how far you get.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The problem is a few things: 1) we generally do not expect adds in our games, and a game that includes adds AFTER the fact, and poorly will be shunned (CS, AO) 2) If there are in game adds we DO expect it to lower the price because we are used to things on the internet being free if add based and for the adds to poof if we pay for it. 3) I don't have TV because I dislike the amounts of adds included in a service I already pay $50 a month for. 4) Magazines, news papers, OTA broadcasting etc ARE add subsidized, and we do see the cost past down to us (I can't speak for movies, and I actually assume that cable TV wouldn't operate with out adds). 5) We will likely accept adds that are well placed and tactful (think adds in racing games on the tracks, or in a sandbox game on billboards), the problem is that most games go the reverse route and try to shove the adds in your face, thus lowering the value of the product directly through the use of adds.
This all being said: How is MW2 not being worth $60 (it isn't) relevant to this? How are adds in video games relevant to NS2? There will not be any.
<!--quoteo(post=1742185:date=Dec 2 2009, 05:52 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SentrySteve @ Dec 2 2009, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742185"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So you're okay with initial advertisements in movies but not initial advertisements in NS2 (ie: ads in the readyroom). I don't see a difference.
GG<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you consider that the studio which produced the film has no control over what ads the THEATERS show, no, I don't have a problem with it. And I find it funny you are trying to argue a point with me when I never said I had a problem with advertisements or that I would demand a refund if in game advertisements were a reality. And enough useless metaphors, NS2 is a separate entity and as such can have its fate determined by fans voicing their opinion and hoping UWE listens. MOST players are against in-game advertisements in most situations (keyword: most), just look at CS 1.6, BF2142, and Planet-Side.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now divide that $60 pricetag and content by everything that was directly copy-pasted from MW1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You haven't even played the game have you? It's clear you haven't, because almost everything in the game is different from MW1 - perks, weapons (only 4 or 5 are the same although they've had revamped visual/audio), models, no MW1 maps made it into MW2, yadda yadda yadda. Go look it up. I'm sick of defending it.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's all I'm gonna say in this thread, I made my point and I'm not about to argue a redundant topic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tolerate barely any ads, and don't watch TV or listen to radio because I dislike ads so much. I use Google largely because it's so ad-free and clean, as opposed to zillion other search engines. The only ads google has are very inobtrusive. If you try to put ads in a game that costs money, <b>I'll vote with my wallet.</b> And to clarify, I'll vote "No".
Ads may be ok in free ones like Quake Live. Other than that, they're jarring immersion breaker. Frontiersmen might drink pepsi ? So <b>what</b> ? It will make me think of last time I've seen pepsi. It's called an immersion break. Besides, ads are slippery slope. If you accept ads in your game, you'll likely give advertisers ability to pressure you. Into what ? To add more ads, of course ! I wouldn't mind if NS2 had custom-crafted fictional ads which don't relate to real world in any way. Otherwise - forget it.
Make a map full of ads for WALL-MART, HARBUCKS, and <!--fonto:timesnewroman--><span style="font-family:timesnewroman"><!--/fonto-->Ï€<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc-->kea signs :)
I would like to see pornographic ads. This way my KDR would increase drastically as all the kids stop to look at the ads, just to get shot in the face 2 seconds later.
<!--quoteo(post=1742251:date=Dec 3 2009, 11:51 AM:name=Polska)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Polska @ Dec 3 2009, 11:51 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742251"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would like to see pornographic ads. This way my KDR would increase drastically as all the kids stop to look at the ads, just to get shot in the face 2 seconds later.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only if it's NS-related porn. Rule 34'd Onos.
<!--quoteo(post=1742067:date=Dec 2 2009, 08:32 AM:name=dux)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dux @ Dec 2 2009, 08:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742067"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes. There will be snickers bars advertisements EVERYWHERE. In fact, your lmg will fire snickers bars as a form of ammunition.
<b>No there won't be any adds.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1742159:date=Dec 2 2009, 03:55 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SentrySteve @ Dec 2 2009, 03:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742159"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Next time you go to pay your cable television bill remind that that they've played ads and as such you'd like a refund (at one point in time cable television was attractive because it was ad free). Demand a lower price on magizines, movie tickets, newspapers, virtually any form of media because they contain ads. Be sure to come back here and let us know how far you get.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You just gave two perfect examples of ads intruding into a medium while not lowering the price, a great example of why some people are agaisnt having ads at all.
Cable originally had no ads. Ads for shows on the same network during down times like HBO and PBS had don't count because you are already watching that network. Ads for upcoming movies in the theater were good because they showed the movie on the same screen you would be watching it on if you came to see it.
Then cable started getting ads like network tv, people complained but they needed cable for TV where they couldn't get over the air reception in cities. They were minor and non-intrusive, then grew to the same time frames as OTA tv except for those channels you paid even more for like HBO. Then they started overlaying the show you are watching with the station logo in the corner. Then they added a bar across the bottom with info that wasn't too annoying. Then they added moving video, distracting you from the show you were watching because people were using Tivo to skip stupid Shamwow ads between shows. They grew and grew until the worst I saw where the ad blocked one of the actors who was filling up a quarter of the screen entirely with dancing people. Now if a show has subtitles it is likely to be blocked. When Futurama starts up on Comedy Central the credits still running while the show starts (to increase the time for ads...) blocks the funny quote at the bottom (such as 'Filmed on location').
Movies went from a short for their food sales and some previews to horrible TV ads stretched to fit the screen in all their pixelated crappiness.
The three shows I watch that have annoying popover ads have been on for several years before they started that crap, and I think I can only stand it for about one more year. I still watch several other cable shows that don't have overlays as part of the same package so I can't 'vote with my dollars' by dropping the offending channels only.
Yes, I know a dev has already said NS won't have ads and I'm very happy about that. I just hate it when people bring up the cable has ads crap because cable is the best example of a similar medium you pay for being taken over by ads. I expect the ads to be contextual (racing logos on cars and tracks) or to reduce game cost (ala ad supported sites).
It looks like 'ad<b>d</b>s' is the new 'turre<b>n</b>ts'.
<!--quoteo(post=1742341:date=Dec 3 2009, 06:10 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Temphage @ Dec 3 2009, 06:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1742341"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually the worst ad I've seen on TV was one of those show overlay ads - only they actually PAUSED THE SHOW so the guy in the corner could talk.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dear lord, that would be the end of that show for me!
There was an episode of Family Guy (I think it was that show) where there was an 'overlay' of the Simpsons that was part of the show and keeps getting more and more obnoxious until one the of the characters attacks the Simpson's character that is blocking the screen. I found that funny at the time, if I saw it on repeats I would be fairly depressed.
Comments
Wow, you're including basic gameplay features such as weapons, abilities, and when the game <i>recognizes</i> a player on kill or death streak as "premium content?" Sounds like somebrah had to stretch that one out. That brah, is you, brah.
I do not expect NS2 to be lacking in gameplay when compared to any modern game released and if I were to track my time spend playing NS2, assuming it's fun is somewhat near NS1, I'd predict my time spent playing NS2 is going to be far superior to that of other games.
I was waiting for Temphage to post in this thread because he lost his mind about this topic in the other similar thread I linked to earlier. I find the idea that gamers expect some "refund" or "lowered price" for ads in a video game to be so irrational that it's funny. Next time you go to pay your cable television bill remind that that they've played ads and as such you'd like a refund (at one point in time cable television was attractive because it was ad free). Demand a lower price on magizines, movie tickets, newspapers, virtually any form of media because they contain ads. Be sure to come back here and let us know how far you get.
So you're okay with initial advertisements in movies but not initial advertisements in NS2 (ie: ads in the readyroom). I don't see a difference.
GG
It's easy to hate on MW2 because of the hype and personally I can't even believe I'm defending it because I'm not a fan of Infinity Ward, but it's well worth the 60$ price tag and far surpasses most games in terms of content, or in this case Natural Selection 2. And don't get me wrong "brah", I bought the 40$ version of Natural Selection 2 because I know it's going to be a fantastic game. But I'm under no delusions that it will lack quite a bit of content because of the nature of UWE and the project.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now divide that $60 pricetag and content by everything that was directly copy-pasted from MW1.
The problem is a few things:
1) we generally do not expect adds in our games, and a game that includes adds AFTER the fact, and poorly will be shunned (CS, AO)
2) If there are in game adds we DO expect it to lower the price because we are used to things on the internet being free if add based and for the adds to poof if we pay for it.
3) I don't have TV because I dislike the amounts of adds included in a service I already pay $50 a month for.
4) Magazines, news papers, OTA broadcasting etc ARE add subsidized, and we do see the cost past down to us (I can't speak for movies, and I actually assume that cable TV wouldn't operate with out adds).
5) We will likely accept adds that are well placed and tactful (think adds in racing games on the tracks, or in a sandbox game on billboards), the problem is that most games go the reverse route and try to shove the adds in your face, thus lowering the value of the product directly through the use of adds.
This all being said:
How is MW2 not being worth $60 (it isn't) relevant to this?
How are adds in video games relevant to NS2? There will not be any.
GG<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
When you consider that the studio which produced the film has no control over what ads the THEATERS show, no, I don't have a problem with it. And I find it funny you are trying to argue a point with me when I never said I had a problem with advertisements or that I would demand a refund if in game advertisements were a reality. And enough useless metaphors, NS2 is a separate entity and as such can have its fate determined by fans voicing their opinion and hoping UWE listens. MOST players are against in-game advertisements in most situations (keyword: most), just look at CS 1.6, BF2142, and Planet-Side.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now divide that $60 pricetag and content by everything that was directly copy-pasted from MW1.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You haven't even played the game have you? It's clear you haven't, because almost everything in the game is different from MW1 - perks, weapons (only 4 or 5 are the same although they've had revamped visual/audio), models, no MW1 maps made it into MW2, yadda yadda yadda. Go look it up. I'm sick of defending it.
all2ez
Also, if there were any advertisements, they should stay in the ready room.
Ads may be ok in free ones like Quake Live. Other than that, they're jarring immersion breaker. Frontiersmen might drink pepsi ? So <b>what</b> ? It will make me think of last time I've seen pepsi. It's called an immersion break. Besides, ads are slippery slope. If you accept ads in your game, you'll likely give advertisers ability to pressure you. Into what ? To add more ads, of course ! I wouldn't mind if NS2 had custom-crafted fictional ads which don't relate to real world in any way. Otherwise - forget it.
Only if it's NS-related porn. Rule 34'd Onos.
<b>No there won't be any adds.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x89/edwardbayntun/film%20humour/nicolas-cage-hair-is-a-bird.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Srsly now. Your all arguing something that is a non-issue at this point.
You just gave two perfect examples of ads intruding into a medium while not lowering the price, a great example of why some people are agaisnt having ads at all.
Cable originally had no ads. Ads for shows on the same network during down times like HBO and PBS had don't count because you are already watching that network. Ads for upcoming movies in the theater were good because they showed the movie on the same screen you would be watching it on if you came to see it.
Then cable started getting ads like network tv, people complained but they needed cable for TV where they couldn't get over the air reception in cities. They were minor and non-intrusive, then grew to the same time frames as OTA tv except for those channels you paid even more for like HBO. Then they started overlaying the show you are watching with the station logo in the corner. Then they added a bar across the bottom with info that wasn't too annoying. Then they added moving video, distracting you from the show you were watching because people were using Tivo to skip stupid Shamwow ads between shows. They grew and grew until the worst I saw where the ad blocked one of the actors who was filling up a quarter of the screen entirely with dancing people. Now if a show has subtitles it is likely to be blocked. When Futurama starts up on Comedy Central the credits still running while the show starts (to increase the time for ads...) blocks the funny quote at the bottom (such as 'Filmed on location').
Movies went from a short for their food sales and some previews to horrible TV ads stretched to fit the screen in all their pixelated crappiness.
The three shows I watch that have annoying popover ads have been on for several years before they started that crap, and I think I can only stand it for about one more year. I still watch several other cable shows that don't have overlays as part of the same package so I can't 'vote with my dollars' by dropping the offending channels only.
Yes, I know a dev has already said NS won't have ads and I'm very happy about that. I just hate it when people bring up the cable has ads crap because cable is the best example of a similar medium you pay for being taken over by ads. I expect the ads to be contextual (racing logos on cars and tracks) or to reduce game cost (ala ad supported sites).
It looks like 'ad<b>d</b>s' is the new 'turre<b>n</b>ts'.
Dear lord, that would be the end of that show for me!
There was an episode of Family Guy (I think it was that show) where there was an 'overlay' of the Simpsons that was part of the show and keeps getting more and more obnoxious until one the of the characters attacks the Simpson's character that is blocking the screen. I found that funny at the time, if I saw it on repeats I would be fairly depressed.