<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tuZYdoic2lk"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tuZYdoic2lk" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center> Idiots blow themselves up with pumpkin. More at 11.
I find this both hilarious and terrifying <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/t-7mQhSZRgM"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/t-7mQhSZRgM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-7mQhSZRgM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-7mQhSZRgM</a></div>
I expect to see this in an NS2 mod sometime... <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YdOWvyXQ6T8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YdOWvyXQ6T8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdOWvyXQ6T8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdOWvyXQ6T8</a>
<!--quoteo(post=1762752:date=Apr 5 2010, 03:06 PM:name=Scythe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Scythe @ Apr 5 2010, 03:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1762752"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Watching that, and reading 1984, should be required education for every person in the entire world.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Totally, and pretty much one of the most important bits of knowledge I ever ran into myself. It seems like it since long would be, until you realize who runs the educational system, and to what end.
Oh, here's the abstract of the video in text form, just in case: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment" target="_blank">Milgram Experiment</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment" target="_blank">Stanford Prison experiment</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott" target="_blank">Eye Colour experiment</a>.
Why are we supposed to be all up in arms about two journalists who got killed by collateral damage, but no one ever talks about the other <a href="http://www.iraqbodycount.org/" target="_blank">hundred thousand civilians</a> killed so far? I guess these two's lives were worth something because they worked for a Western company, and anyone else who lives in Iraq could be a terriss.
<!--quoteo(post=1762874:date=Apr 5 2010, 06:40 PM:name=DiscoZombie)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DiscoZombie @ Apr 5 2010, 06:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1762874"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why are we supposed to be all up in arms about two journalists who got killed by collateral damage, but no one ever talks about the other <a href="http://www.iraqbodycount.org/" target="_blank">hundred thousand civilians</a> killed so far? I guess these two's lives were worth something because they worked for a Western company, and anyone else who lives in Iraq could be a terriss.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably because we're able to see the actual footage of what occurred, hear the people doing it, and cross check it with the statement the government gives. People couldn't be any less phased by numbers and statistics; they're far less sexy.
Well ain't this some sad stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because mistakes are never made in war, and every time a soldier kills an enemy, he stands over his body and weeps for hours for him. And you know what? You do laugh in war. You do make light of it, because if you didn't the stress would crush you.
No really, when did the stupid populace of humanity get this ridiculous idea that civilians are never killed in war? If they saw a building they knew a bunch of guys were inside of building car bombs, and they knew there was a woman and a baby standing on the roof, it sucks to be her, because avoiding civilian deaths like that means you're justifying them using human shields to protect themselves.
What happened there was within the LOAC and the ROE. It entirely understandable how they could mistake them for insurgents. We know beforehand they had cameras. Soldiers are NEVER looking for cameras, so I can see this being an easy mistake - even cops mistakenly shoot people for holding things that look like guns. They explained the situation, sought permission to engage, and directed forces in to secure the area. We see later for a brief moment two people in the front seat of the van that we're supposed to know are children? What we should be saying is 'man that sucks, but you're a journalist in a warzone.' This is why journalists are almost always embedded with coalition military troops, and not doing what these knuckleheads were doing and running around Iraqistan doing your own damn thing. Even coalition troops who ARE in contact with each other bungle their communications and end up where they're not supposed to be.
Is it disappointing? Yes. Is the US some heartless evil entity that kills anyone they damn-well please? No. Is this stupid Iraqi Body Count propaganda going to change anything? No. This is what happens in war, in every war, and hearing "Oh man the United States are WORSE THAN NAZIS (but all those other countries that are there are okay)" is simply the reaction of the moronic ignorant populace who is finally confronted with the facts of armed conflict. It has always happened, it's happening now, and it will always happen in the future.
If it's any consolation, wartime technology has advanced to such a degree that I want you to imagine what the damage would've been if we were in the Middle East forty, sixty, or a hundred years ago. You know, back when the entire objective of war was to inflict such horrifying casualties on the enemy that they are shocked into surrendering. Where it was considered a military necessity to just carpet bomb the hell out of major population centers. Where weapons were so imprecise you simply threw the biggest, largest amount of explosives at a target and hoped a few of them landed on it. Where you destroyed any and everything that could possibly support a war including medical supplies and food sources with absolutely zero regard for the impact on the populace.
Yes, I agree. War sucks, mistakes are made. Looking back with perfect 20-20 hindsight may give humanitarians their jollies, but making the mistakes those soldiers made, given the information they had at that point, is entirely forgiveable. I doubt they've forgiven themselves though.
On the other hand, covering that ###### up was a bigger mistake than any soldier has ever made.
Who covered it up? They asked for the video and got it.
Even Nixon tried harder.
<!--coloro:#9932CC--><span style="color:#9932CC"><!--/coloro-->Grow up. If you can't disagree without being insulting, then find something else to do with your time.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<!--quoteo(post=1762903:date=Apr 6 2010, 08:50 PM:name=Temphage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Temphage @ Apr 6 2010, 08:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1762903"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Who covered it up? They asked for the video and got it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are quotes from the brass interspersed throughout the clip, no doubt cherry-picked to paint the absolute worst picture, but nonetheless accurate.
Ah yes, Slashdot. Hiding links that don't actually lead to any credible information beneath some random internet user's one-liner summarized spin of the situation.
Can I have a link to something that's actually real? I don't have the patience to deal with slashdot. You may as well have just linked me to google.
The best I can find is anecdotal evidence that they were investigated between the time period where they announced that they had some mysterious video and when they released it - and it's entirely understandable WHY they would be investigated. Even if you're whistleblowing, you're still breaking the rules in the military and they want to know who did it. Wikileaks could have classified information showing sensitive information or weapons being used. The government has a DUTY to do what they did.
Comments
3DMax has so much more to offer, let's hope I can get Source Film Maker close to this (when it is unleaked...)
Holy hell that is awesome.
--Scythe--
Idiots blow themselves up with pumpkin. More at 11.
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF_dnGVbXkM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF_dnGVbXkM</a></div>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/t-7mQhSZRgM"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/t-7mQhSZRgM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center><div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-7mQhSZRgM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-7mQhSZRgM</a></div>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/YdOWvyXQ6T8"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/YdOWvyXQ6T8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdOWvyXQ6T8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdOWvyXQ6T8</a>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BK4SJHK6eXE"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BK4SJHK6eXE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK4SJHK6eXE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK4SJHK6eXE</a>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bL4QNsaqnz4"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bL4QNsaqnz4" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL4QNsaqnz4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bL4QNsaqnz4</a>
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4fubdz7w2vA"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4fubdz7w2vA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fubdz7w2vA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fubdz7w2vA</a>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krhclijz2gs&feature=related" target="_blank">One</a>, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s87Z3u1VNjI&feature=related" target="_blank">Two</a>, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_2-F0lT328&feature=related" target="_blank">Three</a>, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y909YNx1K04&feature=related" target="_blank">Four</a>, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV3JSJ0Q9OM&feature=related" target="_blank">Five</a>.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Je1CEPkUM" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Je1CEPkUM</a>
Watching that, and reading 1984, should be required education for every person in the entire world.
--Scythe--
Totally, and pretty much one of the most important bits of knowledge I ever ran into myself. It seems like it since long would be, until you realize who runs the educational system, and to what end.
Oh, here's the abstract of the video in text form, just in case: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment" target="_blank">Milgram Experiment</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment" target="_blank">Stanford Prison experiment</a>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Elliott" target="_blank">Eye Colour experiment</a>.
Don't watch this unless you want to be depressed.
--Scythe--
Well ain't this some sad stuff.
Probably because we're able to see the actual footage of what occurred, hear the people doing it, and cross check it with the statement the government gives. People couldn't be any less phased by numbers and statistics; they're far less sexy.
Well ain't this some sad stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because mistakes are never made in war, and every time a soldier kills an enemy, he stands over his body and weeps for hours for him. And you know what? You do laugh in war. You do make light of it, because if you didn't the stress would crush you.
No really, when did the stupid populace of humanity get this ridiculous idea that civilians are never killed in war? If they saw a building they knew a bunch of guys were inside of building car bombs, and they knew there was a woman and a baby standing on the roof, it sucks to be her, because avoiding civilian deaths like that means you're justifying them using human shields to protect themselves.
What happened there was within the LOAC and the ROE. It entirely understandable how they could mistake them for insurgents. We know beforehand they had cameras. Soldiers are NEVER looking for cameras, so I can see this being an easy mistake - even cops mistakenly shoot people for holding things that look like guns. They explained the situation, sought permission to engage, and directed forces in to secure the area. We see later for a brief moment two people in the front seat of the van that we're supposed to know are children? What we should be saying is 'man that sucks, but you're a journalist in a warzone.' This is why journalists are almost always embedded with coalition military troops, and not doing what these knuckleheads were doing and running around Iraqistan doing your own damn thing. Even coalition troops who ARE in contact with each other bungle their communications and end up where they're not supposed to be.
Is it disappointing? Yes. Is the US some heartless evil entity that kills anyone they damn-well please? No. Is this stupid Iraqi Body Count propaganda going to change anything? No. This is what happens in war, in every war, and hearing "Oh man the United States are WORSE THAN NAZIS (but all those other countries that are there are okay)" is simply the reaction of the moronic ignorant populace who is finally confronted with the facts of armed conflict. It has always happened, it's happening now, and it will always happen in the future.
If it's any consolation, wartime technology has advanced to such a degree that I want you to imagine what the damage would've been if we were in the Middle East forty, sixty, or a hundred years ago. You know, back when the entire objective of war was to inflict such horrifying casualties on the enemy that they are shocked into surrendering. Where it was considered a military necessity to just carpet bomb the hell out of major population centers. Where weapons were so imprecise you simply threw the biggest, largest amount of explosives at a target and hoped a few of them landed on it. Where you destroyed any and everything that could possibly support a war including medical supplies and food sources with absolutely zero regard for the impact on the populace.
<div align='center'><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z38SvWVFup0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z38SvWVFup0</a></div>
Yes, I agree. War sucks, mistakes are made. Looking back with perfect 20-20 hindsight may give humanitarians their jollies, but making the mistakes those soldiers made, given the information they had at that point, is entirely forgiveable. I doubt they've forgiven themselves though.
On the other hand, covering that ###### up was a bigger mistake than any soldier has ever made.
--Scythe--
Who covered it up? They asked for the video and got it.
Even Nixon tried harder.
<!--coloro:#9932CC--><span style="color:#9932CC"><!--/coloro-->Grow up. If you can't disagree without being insulting, then find something else to do with your time.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->
<a href="http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/04/05/1648251/Wikileaks-Releases-Video-of-Journalist-Killings" target="_blank">Details</a>.
There are quotes from the brass interspersed throughout the clip, no doubt cherry-picked to paint the absolute worst picture, but nonetheless accurate.
--Scythe--
Can I have a link to something that's actually real? I don't have the patience to deal with slashdot. You may as well have just linked me to google.
The best I can find is anecdotal evidence that they were investigated between the time period where they announced that they had some mysterious video and when they released it - and it's entirely understandable WHY they would be investigated. Even if you're whistleblowing, you're still breaking the rules in the military and they want to know who did it. Wikileaks could have classified information showing sensitive information or weapons being used. The government has a DUTY to do what they did.
A couple of dead journalists won't make much difference if millions of dead civilians never did, killed for profit under guise of despotic revenge.