<!--quoteo(post=1747725:date=Jan 18 2010, 08:44 AM:name=Ligerio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ligerio @ Jan 18 2010, 08:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have you heard of Duke Nukem Forever? I am sure you can use the same logic there!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I hate when people state that game as the precedent for any software/game that gets delayed. It's not the rule, it's the exception. <!--quoteo(post=1747725:date=Jan 18 2010, 08:44 AM:name=Ligerio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ligerio @ Jan 18 2010, 08:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have not pre-ordered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Honestly stopped reading there, your ###### about a game that isn't being released swiftly enough yet you are not willing to support it?
<!--quoteo(post=1747768:date=Jan 17 2010, 10:32 PM:name=NolSinkler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NolSinkler @ Jan 17 2010, 10:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is different than investing in the company; these aren't investors, but UWE is treating them like they are. Thus, what UWE has done is indeed <b>illegal</b> and <b>unethical</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wrong. And if anyone truly believes that I dare them to try to sue UWE and get the ass handed to them in court. You pre-ordered a product with an estimated release date of "Fall 2009", which is not even a solid date, thusly there is no way to legally uphold such a release time. I'd also challenge you to present any kind of legal document that guaranteed you the game in "Fall 2009". No receipt will show that.
This argument is bunk.
UWE put up pre-orders to help cover development costs. If you pre-ordered, you should have known this. They will release the game, in whatever form (whether it be alpha, beta or release), when they feel it's ready. By pre-ordering an indie game like this, you have put faith in the developers. And with their history, we all know they will deliver.
First off, everyone needs to calm down or this thread will get locked.
Now, yes, the game got delayed and we are terribly sorry for that. We set a release time frame and missed it. Unfortunately this is quite normal in the PC gaming world but our situation is a bit different. Many retailers allow you to pre-order games that get delayed while we handle the game making and purchasing together. While it may appear that no work is being done on the game itself, much of the editor is part of the game. As Corporal_Fortier pointed out, fixing rendering issues in the editor is making it better for when the game comes out as the editor uses the same endering engine. All the extra models and props you guys get allow for the final game to have better maps. The team is making these tools to build the game, and taking a little time each week to release the same tools so others can learn and enjoy them. These tools *must* be developed regardless so UWE can make the game! We are, hopefully, being nice and just letting you use them too.
Now, having said all that, you will be getting more game news in the near future. I am sorry that I have no exact date, because I don't. If you feel cheated about your pre-order, you can try contacting store@unknownworlds.com and see if they can help you.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
As I stated in another thread, it is pretty obvious that they spend enough time on the game, because the editor updates are rather small and only on a weekly basis (no offense).
So I think the thread title is kinda ironic, because people complaining put so much focus on the editor just because there isn't much else information/media released or shown, which doesn't mean that there isn't anything else worth mentioning.
Which brings me to the only thing I would complain about, although it is quite understandable regarding the size of the team: -First of all they lack someone dealing with public relations or, if they don't, this person is doing a lousy job or isn't hired and payed in the classic way. This person could have shifted some attention away from all the editor stuff, which can be irritating to those that don't care much for it and don't see anything else going on. This person also could have dealt with the "Fall 2009" thing, which was already complained about weeks ago. It's all about communication!
-Second -and not really related to this topic- I think they are lacking someone, who deals with the bug reports and problems, which is again no surprise regarding the team size, but which should change at least when the alpha is released. I was a little shocked when Max said early this year that he just found out about the "black textures and models" bug of the editor, which exists since the first release of the editor and even has its own topic on these forums. There are probably more bugs they weren't aware of first, which makes me believe that they might be overwhelmed by bug-reports and how they are handled once the alpha is released.
Relize this people. 4 people are making this game. Its revolutionary with a lot of its features. This is the half life or starcraft of UWE. There making it perfect. Ofcourse its not gonna be NS1 with updated graphics. It is gonna be slightly more casual. But not insanely. Look at what max is doing. The engine is amazing. The graphcis are also amazing. Dynamic infestation is new and never done(much like the l4d director) i know you guys want the game Now. But why? if it was now it wouldnt be as good.
Just wait. This game is gonna set a standered and put UWE on the radar as an amazing gaming company. Remember. everyone starts somewhere, no one starts off like a huge company.
This games gonna be huge just wait for it. Id rather wait and for them to do it right, than do it fast and wrong. A lot of games have the fast paced errors. We have been waiting for this since source was released. I mean if its not released by 2011 id be pissed. But they have giving us a lot. They dont have a 50 man team making it, its 4. and 1 coder. We arnt waiting for something ######, were wating for something that will set a standered for gaming, no game ive played has perfected rts/fps in the same genre.
I mean we always wanted a game like l4d(hopefully you get what i mean) and look what was made. Now this is what most of us always hoped was possible. Infestaion is a big one for me personally. It has NEVER been done. Max must be a prodigy for implementing this in ns2. I know theres some of you that want the game now, but relize, a game isnt something you throw together in a matter of weeks.
Of the 2010 games to come out. Ns2 will be one of the greatest along with hl2ep3(hopefully).
If you preordered your havent wasted any money youve helped a great deal. Over $200k from preorders from us alone? thats amazing. This isnt a main stream game, and they already made that much, its incredible. We are all helping creating NS2 with our support and finance along with the devs. This is all our game. Just wait for it. It will be amazing.
<!--quoteo(post=1747725:date=Jan 17 2010, 02:44 PM:name=Ligerio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ligerio @ Jan 17 2010, 02:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have you heard of Duke Nukem Forever? I am sure you can use the same logic there!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nope. Care to explain? <!--quoteo(post=1747725:date=Jan 17 2010, 02:44 PM:name=Ligerio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ligerio @ Jan 17 2010, 02:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if it's even legal<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You aren't sure of much.
Can understand people's frustration here, as I'm a bit frustrated too! But it's gonna be worth while chaps, hold ya head up! Give the guys a break, they're working their socks off over this!
BadMouthIt ceases to be exclusive when you can have a custom member titlJoin Date: 2004-05-21Member: 28815Members
I do have faith that UWE will deliver the final product by this year. Even though it might seem that the devs are only working on the tools, I remember them saying that more effort is spent on releasing the final game than the tools. So if you think they're spending a lot of time on the tools, they probably are spending more time on the game.
That being said, I'm quite unhappy that they have no updated the teaser. It does give a misleading impression to people as to when the game would be finished, despite the fact that the Fall 09 deadline has passed and anybody should be able to see that. It is quite hard for anybody who has not been following the scene closely to know what is going on. I don't think it takes a lot of effort to change the Fall 09 date to something else or just cut it out altogether.
The "Game" is almost entirely in LUA, which I assume was nearly completed months ago. What you're complaining about - the completion of the tools and engine development, are exactly what they need to focus on to finish the game. Software development doesn't always hit each milestone on time, but I have a feeling as these tools mature and more features are finished in the engine technology department you'll see a snowball effect with the rest of the development.
My personal opinion - yes they need to do something about that trailer, it is missleading.
I would also like to read more GAME news instead of all the editor posts, news and updates.
It will be very confusing and annoying to find news regarding the game itself if everything is being thrown into one pot. There is no separation. And there's still no special board for the Editor.
Ok, this is sad... I didn't even get to fully read the first page all the way to the bottom before wanting to take a bat and beat stupid people to death. First things first. They working on the editor and not the game? are you stupid? The Editor ties right into the game, it runs of the same engine. Meaning, if the editor has no bugs in it, most likely the actualy base engine won't either. And if it does, then it will be easier to spot as they know it isn't from the builders. If gives us players something to do to pass the time. How about instead of sitting on your ass waiting for news on the game, you play around with the map maker? Build a level. Hell, build a single room thats a shrine to Ono's for all I care. If they can fix the bugs with the editor, it also helps the game. For example, again, being the graphics. some people, like me, can't use the editor cause the textures and everything is black. We report this to them so they can fix it. There is a bug fix before the game is even out! Also if you have been reading and paying attention, they want "US" to make the maps that are going to be used in the game. Meaning that the game isn't close to done yet, since to have a Alpha you need maps to test the stuff on! Another thing is the editor helps us get ready for the game as well. We can see what levels can be made, what can be used, how big the levels could be, where vents could be place, what this feature does and how it could effect the game. How can you, or anyone, say they are not focusing on the game? The editor is part of the game too. That's like, saying... Ok, lets try to find an example easy to understand... I think filling a tub with water will work. The water hits only one spot, focuses only on that one spot, it takes a while, but in the end it will fill the tub. Bad, I know, I suck at explaining. anyways, I'm glad for them to have given us the editor and not tell us about the game. It lets us focus on using the editor for a while and having fun with it and being entertained, instead of telling us about the game and not being able to touch anything, just sit here and wait... and wait... and wait... What you suggest, is worse off than anything. Also, from what I have read in another thread, they never lied to you in the trailer, I went and re-watched it while writing them, and know what I found... it just says "Fall 2009" it doesn't way WHAT will be release then. From what I hear, thats when the editor came out, so they never gave any false information. You just assumed it was the game and jumped right at it. Alot of the other people here are right too, and that your just a troll. Hell, you have only 8 posts, showing you don't partake in the community at all. I know my own posts are small, but atleast I can stick around and not cry at every little thing. You have it bad not being able to play the game right here and now? I can't even play the original NS nor use the editor cause of the black texture bug. Yet you don't hear me crying and wanting to know about the game. if people want their money back, then i say don't give it to them, or if you have to, then good ridden, if they can't even wait alittle while and cry over it, then I wouldn't want them in the same game as me.
PS. Yes my spelling and grammer suck, so don't even try to flame,troll,argue or anything about that >.> Abunch of noobs, probly little kids that shouldn't even be old enough for this stuff.
<!--quoteo(post=1747771:date=Jan 18 2010, 03:50 AM:name=Comprox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Comprox @ Jan 18 2010, 03:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All the extra models and props you guys get allow for the final game to have better maps.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Nitpicking big time, but I think having even a very hazy picture about the gameplay and would serve the mapping far better than having any kind of props and models. Right now people can play around with the editor, but there's no way to sketch even single rooms for real gameplay use, since we don't have a clue how the game is supposed to work. I don't know what kind of methods experienced mappers use though, so I don't know if they've got some map plans already figured out somehow.
Otherwise I'm a little disappointment how late the 'Fall 2009' got cancelled and how it still exists in trailer. For example ENSL started prerparing for NS2, got a new site running, got some nice hype going and some older players came back. Now, that enthusiasism has died away and there's talk of 'Yet another "final" season coming up'. Still, the deadline misinformation seems to be a rather common habit in game industry, so I can't blame UWE in particular.
<!--quoteo(post=1747785:date=Jan 18 2010, 03:58 AM:name=Jirodyne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jirodyne @ Jan 18 2010, 03:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok, this is sad... I didn't even get to fully read the first page all the way to the bottom before wanting to take a bat and beat stupid people to death. First things first. They working on the editor and not the game? are you stupid?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats not exactly what the point people have been raising. It about the fact that the updates have only been about the Spark <i>Editor</i>, and not about NS2 the <i>game</i>. As much as I like the idea of the editor and have spent a few hours making a hive room myself, It would be nice to hear some actual news about gameplay, the classes, weapons or see an ingame screenshot.
As for your defence to the 'Fall 2009' trailer..... <!--quoteo(post=1747785:date=Jan 18 2010, 03:58 AM:name=Jirodyne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jirodyne @ Jan 18 2010, 03:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, from what I have read in another thread, they never lied to you in the trailer, I went and re-watched it while writing them, and know what I found... it just says "Fall 2009" it doesn't way WHAT will be release then. From what I hear, thats when the editor came out, so they never gave any false information.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You cant be serious, there is a definate assumption there that the GAME would be released during Fall 2009. And if that wasnt their intention, then they are stupid because it is obvious that releasing something like, the public was always going to think it was for the game and it should have been properly shown otherwise. Once again, I dont mind it got delayed, but a little update on why and what they are doing would have been better than me just sitting here twiddling my thumbs all last Fall until it was 2010.
Meh.. i don't care. Im not gonna criticism the devs i like the much. I can spit/puke on Valve, EA, Blizzard devs because they worth it.. but not UWE and definitely not. They are good guys they work hard, they're not gonna scam with DLC or whatever.. And i hope they're gonna make a lot of money so they can make even better game (and have better cars?!).
Ze french guy is writing, so beware of my wrath ! Ha ha.
The game isn't here yet. Would you really rather UW just never released Spark? Settle down and wait, you'll get your share eventually.
<!--quoteo(post=1747791:date=Jan 18 2010, 12:06 PM:name=Kalibrage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalibrage @ Jan 18 2010, 12:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Meh.. i don't care. Im not gonna criticism the devs i like the much. I can spit/puke on Valve, EA, Blizzard devs because they worth it.. but not UWE and definitely not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> On a note of being a suck-up fanboy myself... What exactly is Valve doing on that list? They develop their own tools and share them with the community, they listen to the players, they care about value to consumer, they offer tremendous post-launch support, they have a small team and are one of biggest supporters of modding and community in general, exactly like UW.
Also... While Blizzard are THE biggest cash-cow in existence, they're also the company that devotes more to game design and customer support than every other one in existence combined. Possibly because they have the funds to do it.
Sorry for Valve its just the L4D2 that a bit shake me, but no i still like them too ha. Im not that angry about the others too. Well i can blame Blizzard because they dont release their game yet for economic profit so WoW is a priority for them and FOR ME its really bad. Well and EA take control of good devs company and turn them into monsters@DLC marchandising and all (Bioware, DICE). I really dont like the idea of buying a game in small part puzzle. But you know i dont care that much too, its not that important and im not gonna make a big deal for it or cry or whatever. ;)
<!--quoteo(post=1747774:date=Jan 18 2010, 06:17 AM:name=Hoodedsniper)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hoodedsniper @ Jan 18 2010, 06:17 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747774"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This games gonna be huge just wait for it. Id rather wait and for them to do it right, than do it fast and wrong. A lot of games have the fast paced errors. We have been waiting for this since source was released. I mean if its not released by 2011 id be pissed. But they have giving us a lot. They dont have a 50 man team making it, its 4. and 1 coder. We arnt waiting for something ######, were wating for something that will set a standered for gaming, no game ive played has perfected rts/fps in the same genre. ... If you preordered your havent wasted any money youve helped a great deal. Over $200k from preorders from us alone? thats amazing. This isnt a main stream game, and they already made that much, its incredible. We are all helping creating NS2 with our support and finance along with the devs. This is all our game. Just wait for it. It will be amazing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, we aren't pretending for the full game to come out right now, but for the alpha. We can't really use the tools since we have no idea how the game will play on them; we can just play around with them.
If we had an alpha, even if it used (temporary of course) ns1 models, at least we'd have an idea of how really the gameplay is and start really making maps for the game. It's not as much as a rant as a reminder that we were promised the alpha. Hell, they can release their benchmark test game SVN, I don't care if it's barely playable or filled with bugs; what I want is to see progress on the <i>game</i>, the thing I paid for. Besides, an alpha is SUPPOSED to be riddled with bugs, etc. because it's a really early preview.
pSyk0mAnNerdish by NatureGermanyJoin Date: 2003-08-07Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
edited January 2010
Imho the point about having an alpha in order to do proper maps is a lot less important than ppl make it in here and just an excuse to get the alpha.
Gameplay will change once people play the alpha and so will maps. You already saw an possible overview of an NS2 map, you have rough guidelines regarding res node rooms and tech rooms and their amount, layout and visuals, and you have all the necessary player-sizes regarding corridor, door and vent sizes. In addition there is a lot of concept art hinting on how rooms should be layed out, and you've also seen map screenshots from ns1 mappers who had early access to the editor.
Even if you'd experience NS2 gameplay, you couldn't exactly predict how parts in your map played out and thus you'd have to change parts of your map anyway. And changing parts is good, because it improves your mapping skills and your map after all. Moreover considering the layout of a few ns1 maps, there are people that give a crap about "proper" gameplay or just wanna get their exact (visual) idea of their map across without careing much how it plays out.
Hell, I would start with my planned map immediatly, if I hadn't black textures and models and I wouldn't mind changing rooms or travel-routes later on, because I'd have to do it anyway after playtesting.
I think you're complaining in a situation where waiting is the only option. Personally, I think that's a lame thing to do, but then again, I acknowledge the fact we need people to function as the squeaky wheel.
<!--quoteo(post=1747761:date=Jan 18 2010, 02:59 AM:name=WhiteZero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WhiteZero @ Jan 18 2010, 02:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747761"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry, its hard to just stop having an opinion...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'd call it a GUESS, not an opinion
<!--quoteo(post=1747792:date=Jan 18 2010, 10:46 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Jan 18 2010, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747792"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What exactly is Valve doing on that list? They develop their own tools and share them with the community, they listen to the players, they care about value to consumer, they offer tremendous post-launch support, they have a small team and are one of biggest supporters of modding and community in general, exactly like UW.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm yeah L4D2 (or how i call it "the small update of L4D1") was so nice of them to do :)
<!--quoteo(post=1747793:date=Jan 18 2010, 12:57 PM:name=Kalibrage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalibrage @ Jan 18 2010, 12:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747793"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry for Valve its just the L4D2 that a bit shake me, but no i still like them too ha.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ditto. It was a ###### move in many ways, but they're still great guys. (and hopefully they'll stay that way...)
So... Yeah. No biggie. /nerdrage
<!--quoteo(post=1747795:date=Jan 18 2010, 01:21 PM:name=paperjack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paperjack @ Jan 18 2010, 01:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747795"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not as much as a rant as a reminder that we were promised the alpha. Hell, they can release their benchmark test game SVN, I don't care if it's barely playable or filled with bugs; what I want is to see progress on the <i>game</i>, the thing I paid for. Besides, an alpha is SUPPOSED to be riddled with bugs, etc. because it's a really early preview.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe UW said the issue isn't as much that the game will be unstable, but that they simply don't want to give people wrong ideas about the end product: at this stage in development everything is always changing.
Yea what can I say, I'm impatient person and find it hard to believe that small team can find all the bugs that are bound to occur. The previous release date was for the retail version and find it very hard to believe that they couldnt bring alpha (a playable state) even after 3 months of the original date.
I would love to know what it is that takes so much time to fix and is so major that it could potentially cause people not to buy this game. I have stated my concerns in another thread so...
<!--quoteo(post=1747785:date=Jan 18 2010, 03:58 AM:name=Jirodyne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jirodyne @ Jan 18 2010, 03:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->GIANT BLOCK OF UNBROKEN TEXT
PS. Yes my spelling and grammer suck, so don't even try to flame,troll,argue or anything about that >.> Abunch of noobs, probly little kids that shouldn't even be old enough for this stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> For the love of god, learn to use paragraphs, they make text much easier to read.
<!--quoteo(post=1747790:date=Jan 18 2010, 11:02 AM:name=Raven_XI)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Raven_XI @ Jan 18 2010, 11:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747790"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You cant be serious, there is a definate assumption there that the GAME would be released during Fall 2009. And if that wasnt their intention, then they are stupid because it is obvious that releasing something like, the public was always going to think it was for the game and it should have been properly shown otherwise. Once again, I dont mind it got delayed, but a little update on why and what they are doing would have been better than me just sitting here twiddling my thumbs all last Fall until it was 2010.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then I suggest you read <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009/10ns_7th_anniversary_progress_and_first_ns2_screenshots" target="_blank">this news post from Fall 2009</a>, which contains "a little update on why and what they are doing". And if you're too lazy, let me point this out: <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As most of you know, we've been planning on releasing NS2 in some playable form this Fall. Back in May, we thought that if the game wasn't done, at least it would be ready to play in an alpha or beta state at the very least. We wish we still thought that was true, <b>but now we realize it isn't happening.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm surprised nobody in this thread seems to have noticed that.
<!--quoteo(post=1747771:date=Jan 18 2010, 01:50 AM:name=Comprox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Comprox @ Jan 18 2010, 01:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First off, everyone needs to calm down or this thread will get locked.
Now, yes, the game got delayed and we are terribly sorry for that. We set a release time frame and missed it. Unfortunately this is quite normal in the PC gaming world but our situation is a bit different. Many retailers allow you to pre-order games that get delayed while we handle the game making and purchasing together. While it may appear that no work is being done on the game itself, much of the editor is part of the game. As Corporal_Fortier pointed out, fixing rendering issues in the editor is making it better for when the game comes out as the editor uses the same endering engine. All the extra models and props you guys get allow for the final game to have better maps. The team is making these tools to build the game, and taking a little time each week to release the same tools so others can learn and enjoy them. These tools *must* be developed regardless so UWE can make the game! We are, hopefully, being nice and just letting you use them too.
Now, having said all that, you will be getting more game news in the near future. I am sorry that I have no exact date, because I don't. If you feel cheated about your pre-order, you can try contacting store@unknownworlds.com and see if they can help you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is some kind of consideration i was expecting, does it need to have a topic open and bla bla bla? If i buy i product and it didnt get delivered on time i expect a position explaining and apologizing, this is a product, its about money not funny sorry about the english
<!--quoteo(post=1747828:date=Jan 18 2010, 10:20 AM:name=Polly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polly @ Jan 18 2010, 10:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747828"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Then I suggest you read <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009/10ns_7th_anniversary_progress_and_first_ns2_screenshots" target="_blank">this news post from Fall 2009</a>, which contains "a little update on why and what they are doing". And if you're too lazy, let me point this out:
I'm surprised nobody in this thread seems to have noticed that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There it is! I remember reading that but couldn't dig up the post. Thanks.
<!--quoteo(post=1747795:date=Jan 18 2010, 05:21 AM:name=paperjack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paperjack @ Jan 18 2010, 05:21 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747795"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know, we aren't pretending for the full game to come out right now, but for the alpha. We can't really use the tools since we have no idea how the game will play on them; we can just play around with them.
If we had an alpha, even if it used (temporary of course) ns1 models, at least we'd have an idea of how really the gameplay is and start really making maps for the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Getting the alpha doesn't mean getting the server code though, so even if we had a version of the game, what good would it be if the server code isn't complete (hence no multiplayer) or the server browser implentation (from Steamworks I believe) isn't done yet? Sure it would be all nice and fun to run around in a level for like 5 minutes, but we'd all get tired of this pretty fast without basic multiplayer support. There would also be no way of evaluating the gameplay since you'd be alone wandering in your map. I'm not saying the multiplayer side isn't ready, but we have to keep in mind that an alpha comes with limited playability and will not ease everyone's concerns here, so all the work they can put in it is worthwhile in my opinion.
<!--quoteo(post=1747829:date=Jan 18 2010, 09:52 AM:name=riner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (riner @ Jan 18 2010, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747829"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is some kind of consideration i was expecting, does it need to have a topic open and bla bla bla? If i buy i product and it didnt get delivered on time i expect a position explaining and apologizing, this is a product, its about money not funny sorry about the english<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The explanation you want is provided by Polly in the post above yours.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
if it's anything like NS1 we will get a alpha "soon" where you can just walk around, and probably go into commander mode.
thats how i twas in NS1, we got the mapping "tools" (well, they where from Halflife, but we got the textures/enttities) and the possibility to run around the level and test commander mode. I expect this to be the first alpha. PERHAPS with initial multiplayer support, so that it's like a giant very pretty chat room. (where you have to enter the IP of the server manualy etc). I'm pretty sure we will see such an alpha quite soon. If not, we will probably directly go to a "alpha" that is more like a beta, which means, basic gameplay is done and we can do test games (which will be buggy and unbalanced).
<!--quoteo(post=1747768:date=Jan 18 2010, 03:32 AM:name=NolSinkler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NolSinkler @ Jan 18 2010, 03:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thus, what UWE has done is indeed <b>illegal</b> and <b>unethical</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha!
Also:
<!--quoteo(post=1747771:date=Jan 18 2010, 03:50 AM:name=Comprox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Comprox @ Jan 18 2010, 03:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First off, everyone needs to calm down or this thread will get locked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comprox, chillax. The worst thing about the NS1 community in its hey-day was how zealously admins patrolled forums, looking for an excuse to flex their muscles. Over the past 2 or 3 years the admins have become much more relaxed and it's led to some good debates. Don't fall back to old habits. Briefly scanning over this thread I'd say at worst you could describe the comments as "heated debate".
Finally- and this will seem like angry nerd rage at not getting the game yet- I think there's a genuine chance that NS2 won't get a full release in 2010. UWE move at a glacial pace but perhaps they should be allowed to given the small team they have and the impressive short clips they've released so far.
<!--quoteo(post=1747835:date=Jan 18 2010, 12:16 PM:name=sherpa)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (sherpa @ Jan 18 2010, 12:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747835"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->UWE move at a glacial pace<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Considering how much they have completed already, the weekly updates to the editor, and the fact that they don't show everything they've done to the public: I think you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
Comments
I hate when people state that game as the precedent for any software/game that gets delayed. It's not the rule, it's the exception.
<!--quoteo(post=1747725:date=Jan 18 2010, 08:44 AM:name=Ligerio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ligerio @ Jan 18 2010, 08:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I have not pre-ordered.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Honestly stopped reading there, your ###### about a game that isn't being released swiftly enough yet you are not willing to support it?
gtfo
Wrong. And if anyone truly believes that I dare them to try to sue UWE and get the ass handed to them in court.
You pre-ordered a product with an estimated release date of "Fall 2009", which is not even a solid date, thusly there is no way to legally uphold such a release time. I'd also challenge you to present any kind of legal document that guaranteed you the game in "Fall 2009". No receipt will show that.
This argument is bunk.
UWE put up pre-orders to help cover development costs. If you pre-ordered, you should have known this. They will release the game, in whatever form (whether it be alpha, beta or release), when they feel it's ready.
By pre-ordering an indie game like this, you have put faith in the developers. And with their history, we all know they will deliver.
Now, yes, the game got delayed and we are terribly sorry for that. We set a release time frame and missed it. Unfortunately this is quite normal in the PC gaming world but our situation is a bit different. Many retailers allow you to pre-order games that get delayed while we handle the game making and purchasing together. While it may appear that no work is being done on the game itself, much of the editor is part of the game. As Corporal_Fortier pointed out, fixing rendering issues in the editor is making it better for when the game comes out as the editor uses the same endering engine. All the extra models and props you guys get allow for the final game to have better maps. The team is making these tools to build the game, and taking a little time each week to release the same tools so others can learn and enjoy them. These tools *must* be developed regardless so UWE can make the game! We are, hopefully, being nice and just letting you use them too.
Now, having said all that, you will be getting more game news in the near future. I am sorry that I have no exact date, because I don't. If you feel cheated about your pre-order, you can try contacting store@unknownworlds.com and see if they can help you.
So I think the thread title is kinda ironic, because people complaining put so much focus on the editor just because there isn't much else information/media released or shown, which doesn't mean that there isn't anything else worth mentioning.
Which brings me to the only thing I would complain about, although it is quite understandable regarding the size of the team:
-First of all they lack someone dealing with public relations or, if they don't, this person is doing a lousy job or isn't hired and payed in the classic way.
This person could have shifted some attention away from all the editor stuff, which can be irritating to those that don't care much for it and don't see anything else going on. This person also could have dealt with the "Fall 2009" thing, which was already complained about weeks ago. It's all about communication!
-Second -and not really related to this topic- I think they are lacking someone, who deals with the bug reports and problems, which is again no surprise regarding the team size, but which should change at least when the alpha is released.
I was a little shocked when Max said early this year that he just found out about the "black textures and models" bug of the editor, which exists since the first release of the editor and even has its own topic on these forums.
There are probably more bugs they weren't aware of first, which makes me believe that they might be overwhelmed by bug-reports and how they are handled once the alpha is released.
Relize this people. 4 people are making this game. Its revolutionary with a lot of its features. This is the half life or starcraft of UWE. There making it perfect. Ofcourse its not gonna be NS1 with updated graphics. It is gonna be slightly more casual. But not insanely. Look at what max is doing. The engine is amazing. The graphcis are also amazing. Dynamic infestation is new and never done(much like the l4d director) i know you guys want the game Now. But why? if it was now it wouldnt be as good.
Just wait. This game is gonna set a standered and put UWE on the radar as an amazing gaming company. Remember. everyone starts somewhere, no one starts off like a huge company.
This games gonna be huge just wait for it. Id rather wait and for them to do it right, than do it fast and wrong. A lot of games have the fast paced errors. We have been waiting for this since source was released. I mean if its not released by 2011 id be pissed. But they have giving us a lot. They dont have a 50 man team making it, its 4. and 1 coder. We arnt waiting for something ######, were wating for something that will set a standered for gaming, no game ive played has perfected rts/fps in the same genre.
I mean we always wanted a game like l4d(hopefully you get what i mean) and look what was made. Now this is what most of us always hoped was possible. Infestaion is a big one for me personally. It has NEVER been done. Max must be a prodigy for implementing this in ns2. I know theres some of you that want the game now, but relize, a game isnt something you throw together in a matter of weeks.
Of the 2010 games to come out. Ns2 will be one of the greatest along with hl2ep3(hopefully).
If you preordered your havent wasted any money youve helped a great deal. Over $200k from preorders from us alone? thats amazing. This isnt a main stream game, and they already made that much, its incredible. We are all helping creating NS2 with our support and finance along with the devs. This is all our game. Just wait for it. It will be amazing.
Nope. Care to explain?
<!--quoteo(post=1747725:date=Jan 17 2010, 02:44 PM:name=Ligerio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ligerio @ Jan 17 2010, 02:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747725"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure if it's even legal<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You aren't sure of much.
That being said, I'm quite unhappy that they have no updated the teaser. It does give a misleading impression to people as to when the game would be finished, despite the fact that the Fall 09 deadline has passed and anybody should be able to see that. It is quite hard for anybody who has not been following the scene closely to know what is going on. I don't think it takes a lot of effort to change the Fall 09 date to something else or just cut it out altogether.
My personal opinion - yes they need to do something about that trailer, it is missleading.
It will be very confusing and annoying to find news regarding the game itself if everything is being thrown into one pot. There is no separation. And there's still no special board for the Editor.
PS. Yes my spelling and grammer suck, so don't even try to flame,troll,argue or anything about that >.> Abunch of noobs, probly little kids that shouldn't even be old enough for this stuff.
Nitpicking big time, but I think having even a very hazy picture about the gameplay and would serve the mapping far better than having any kind of props and models. Right now people can play around with the editor, but there's no way to sketch even single rooms for real gameplay use, since we don't have a clue how the game is supposed to work. I don't know what kind of methods experienced mappers use though, so I don't know if they've got some map plans already figured out somehow.
Otherwise I'm a little disappointment how late the 'Fall 2009' got cancelled and how it still exists in trailer. For example ENSL started prerparing for NS2, got a new site running, got some nice hype going and some older players came back. Now, that enthusiasism has died away and there's talk of 'Yet another "final" season coming up'. Still, the deadline misinformation seems to be a rather common habit in game industry, so I can't blame UWE in particular.
Thats not exactly what the point people have been raising. It about the fact that the updates have only been about the Spark <i>Editor</i>, and not about NS2 the <i>game</i>. As much as I like the idea of the editor and have spent a few hours making a hive room myself, It would be nice to hear some actual news about gameplay, the classes, weapons or see an ingame screenshot.
As for your defence to the 'Fall 2009' trailer.....
<!--quoteo(post=1747785:date=Jan 18 2010, 03:58 AM:name=Jirodyne)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jirodyne @ Jan 18 2010, 03:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747785"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also, from what I have read in another thread, they never lied to you in the trailer, I went and re-watched it while writing them, and know what I found... it just says "Fall 2009" it doesn't way WHAT will be release then. From what I hear, thats when the editor came out, so they never gave any false information.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You cant be serious, there is a definate assumption there that the GAME would be released during Fall 2009. And if that wasnt their intention, then they are stupid because it is obvious that releasing something like, the public was always going to think it was for the game and it should have been properly shown otherwise. Once again, I dont mind it got delayed, but a little update on why and what they are doing would have been better than me just sitting here twiddling my thumbs all last Fall until it was 2010.
Ze french guy is writing, so beware of my wrath ! Ha ha.
<!--quoteo(post=1747791:date=Jan 18 2010, 12:06 PM:name=Kalibrage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalibrage @ Jan 18 2010, 12:06 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747791"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Meh.. i don't care. Im not gonna criticism the devs i like the much. I can spit/puke on Valve, EA, Blizzard devs because they worth it.. but not UWE and definitely not.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On a note of being a suck-up fanboy myself... What exactly is Valve doing on that list? They develop their own tools and share them with the community, they listen to the players, they care about value to consumer, they offer tremendous post-launch support, they have a small team and are one of biggest supporters of modding and community in general, exactly like UW.
Also... While Blizzard are THE biggest cash-cow in existence, they're also the company that devotes more to game design and customer support than every other one in existence combined. Possibly because they have the funds to do it.
i just respect more UWE than the others
...
If you preordered your havent wasted any money youve helped a great deal. Over $200k from preorders from us alone? thats amazing. This isnt a main stream game, and they already made that much, its incredible. We are all helping creating NS2 with our support and finance along with the devs. This is all our game. Just wait for it. It will be amazing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You know, we aren't pretending for the full game to come out right now, but for the alpha. We can't really use the tools since we have no idea how the game will play on them; we can just play around with them.
If we had an alpha, even if it used (temporary of course) ns1 models, at least we'd have an idea of how really the gameplay is and start really making maps for the game.
It's not as much as a rant as a reminder that we were promised the alpha. Hell, they can release their benchmark test game SVN, I don't care if it's barely playable or filled with bugs; what I want is to see progress on the <i>game</i>, the thing I paid for.
Besides, an alpha is SUPPOSED to be riddled with bugs, etc. because it's a really early preview.
Oh yeah, I forgot
VALVE TIME
Gameplay will change once people play the alpha and so will maps.
You already saw an possible overview of an NS2 map, you have rough guidelines regarding res node rooms and tech rooms and their amount, layout and visuals, and you have all the necessary player-sizes regarding corridor, door and vent sizes.
In addition there is a lot of concept art hinting on how rooms should be layed out, and you've also seen map screenshots from ns1 mappers who had early access to the editor.
Even if you'd experience NS2 gameplay, you couldn't exactly predict how parts in your map played out and thus you'd have to change parts of your map anyway.
And changing parts is good, because it improves your mapping skills and your map after all.
Moreover considering the layout of a few ns1 maps, there are people that give a crap about "proper" gameplay or just wanna get their exact (visual) idea of their map across without careing much how it plays out.
Hell, I would start with my planned map immediatly, if I hadn't black textures and models and I wouldn't mind changing rooms or travel-routes later on, because I'd have to do it anyway after playtesting.
i'd call it a GUESS, not an opinion
<!--quoteo(post=1747792:date=Jan 18 2010, 10:46 AM:name=Draco_2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Draco_2k @ Jan 18 2010, 10:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747792"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What exactly is Valve doing on that list? They develop their own tools and share them with the community, they listen to the players, they care about value to consumer, they offer tremendous post-launch support, they have a small team and are one of biggest supporters of modding and community in general, exactly like UW.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hmm yeah L4D2 (or how i call it "the small update of L4D1") was so nice of them to do :)
Ditto. It was a ###### move in many ways, but they're still great guys. (and hopefully they'll stay that way...)
So... Yeah. No biggie. /nerdrage
<!--quoteo(post=1747795:date=Jan 18 2010, 01:21 PM:name=paperjack)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (paperjack @ Jan 18 2010, 01:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747795"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's not as much as a rant as a reminder that we were promised the alpha. Hell, they can release their benchmark test game SVN, I don't care if it's barely playable or filled with bugs; what I want is to see progress on the <i>game</i>, the thing I paid for. Besides, an alpha is SUPPOSED to be riddled with bugs, etc. because it's a really early preview.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe UW said the issue isn't as much that the game will be unstable, but that they simply don't want to give people wrong ideas about the end product: at this stage in development everything is always changing.
I would love to know what it is that takes so much time to fix and is so major that it could potentially cause people not to buy this game. I have stated my concerns in another thread so...
I hope to hear more about currect state of NS2!
PS. Yes my spelling and grammer suck, so don't even try to flame,troll,argue or anything about that >.> Abunch of noobs, probly little kids that shouldn't even be old enough for this stuff.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the love of god, learn to use paragraphs, they make text much easier to read.
Then I suggest you read <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/news/2009/10ns_7th_anniversary_progress_and_first_ns2_screenshots" target="_blank">this news post from Fall 2009</a>, which contains "a little update on why and what they are doing".
And if you're too lazy, let me point this out:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As most of you know, we've been planning on releasing NS2 in some playable form this Fall. Back in May, we thought that if the game wasn't done, at least it would be ready to play in an alpha or beta state at the very least. We wish we still thought that was true, <b>but now we realize it isn't happening.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm surprised nobody in this thread seems to have noticed that.
Now, yes, the game got delayed and we are terribly sorry for that. We set a release time frame and missed it. Unfortunately this is quite normal in the PC gaming world but our situation is a bit different. Many retailers allow you to pre-order games that get delayed while we handle the game making and purchasing together. While it may appear that no work is being done on the game itself, much of the editor is part of the game. As Corporal_Fortier pointed out, fixing rendering issues in the editor is making it better for when the game comes out as the editor uses the same endering engine. All the extra models and props you guys get allow for the final game to have better maps. The team is making these tools to build the game, and taking a little time each week to release the same tools so others can learn and enjoy them. These tools *must* be developed regardless so UWE can make the game! We are, hopefully, being nice and just letting you use them too.
Now, having said all that, you will be getting more game news in the near future. I am sorry that I have no exact date, because I don't. If you feel cheated about your pre-order, you can try contacting store@unknownworlds.com and see if they can help you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is some kind of consideration i was expecting, does it need to have a topic open and bla bla bla?
If i buy i product and it didnt get delivered on time i expect a position explaining and apologizing, this is a product, its about money not funny
sorry about the english
And if you're too lazy, let me point this out:
I'm surprised nobody in this thread seems to have noticed that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There it is! I remember reading that but couldn't dig up the post. Thanks.
If we had an alpha, even if it used (temporary of course) ns1 models, at least we'd have an idea of how really the gameplay is and start really making maps for the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Getting the alpha doesn't mean getting the server code though, so even if we had a version of the game, what good would it be if the server code isn't complete (hence no multiplayer) or the server browser implentation (from Steamworks I believe) isn't done yet? Sure it would be all nice and fun to run around in a level for like 5 minutes, but we'd all get tired of this pretty fast without basic multiplayer support. There would also be no way of evaluating the gameplay since you'd be alone wandering in your map. I'm not saying the multiplayer side isn't ready, but we have to keep in mind that an alpha comes with limited playability and will not ease everyone's concerns here, so all the work they can put in it is worthwhile in my opinion.
<!--quoteo(post=1747829:date=Jan 18 2010, 09:52 AM:name=riner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (riner @ Jan 18 2010, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747829"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That is some kind of consideration i was expecting, does it need to have a topic open and bla bla bla?
If i buy i product and it didnt get delivered on time i expect a position explaining and apologizing, this is a product, its about money not funny
sorry about the english<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The explanation you want is provided by Polly in the post above yours.
thats how i twas in NS1, we got the mapping "tools" (well, they where from Halflife, but we got the textures/enttities) and the possibility to run around the level and test commander mode.
I expect this to be the first alpha. PERHAPS with initial multiplayer support, so that it's like a giant very pretty chat room. (where you have to enter the IP of the server manualy etc).
I'm pretty sure we will see such an alpha quite soon. If not, we will probably directly go to a "alpha" that is more like a beta, which means, basic gameplay is done and we can do test games (which will be buggy and unbalanced).
<!--quoteo(post=1747768:date=Jan 18 2010, 03:32 AM:name=NolSinkler)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NolSinkler @ Jan 18 2010, 03:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747768"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Thus, what UWE has done is indeed <b>illegal</b> and <b>unethical</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
haha!
Also:
<!--quoteo(post=1747771:date=Jan 18 2010, 03:50 AM:name=Comprox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Comprox @ Jan 18 2010, 03:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1747771"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First off, everyone needs to calm down or this thread will get locked.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Comprox, chillax. The worst thing about the NS1 community in its hey-day was how zealously admins patrolled forums, looking for an excuse to flex their muscles. Over the past 2 or 3 years the admins have become much more relaxed and it's led to some good debates. Don't fall back to old habits. Briefly scanning over this thread I'd say at worst you could describe the comments as "heated debate".
Finally- and this will seem like angry nerd rage at not getting the game yet- I think there's a genuine chance that NS2 won't get a full release in 2010. UWE move at a glacial pace but perhaps they should be allowed to given the small team they have and the impressive short clips they've released so far.
Considering how much they have completed already, the weekly updates to the editor, and the fact that they don't show everything they've done to the public: I think you don't have a clue what you're talking about.