Does hot loading work on a running server with connected clients?

NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
in NS2 General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">An idea for an event that might be fun.</div>Does hot loading work on a running server with connected clients? And will it upload the changes to all clients? What I mean is if someone has a server running with people playing on it, and uses Spark to edit the map, will the changes be applied immediately when he saves? Will the changes be sent to the clients in real time?

Because if it works like that I propose that once the alpha is out, during one day of the week the devs should run a server and let us play a map while that map is being worked on by the devs. Just thought that might be fun.
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Comments

  • Draco_2kDraco_2k Evil Genius Join Date: 2009-12-09 Member: 69546Members
    That... Is actually pretty genius. Less realtime, more so when saving, re-compiling and re-uploading the level.

    Not a whole lot of practical applications though, nevermind the unknown amount of hassle involved.
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  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
    It will also introduce a new game mode: Trap the skulk! :D
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  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    My guess is at the very least you have to propagate the new map to the clients. Probably a full shutdown of the server.

    Can't have clients think they're at (X,Y,Z) and suddenly that's outside the map.
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  • slayer20slayer20 Killed a man once. Join Date: 2007-12-13 Member: 63157Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Yeah they would have to be able to download the map before any changes take place.

    Unless they can some how download the map while playing it...

    I guess it's possible in theory, but actually doing it?
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  • cmc5788cmc5788 Join Date: 2009-10-06 Member: 68959Members
    edited February 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1752520:date=Feb 11 2010, 04:00 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Feb 11 2010, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752520"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My guess is at the very least you have to propagate the new map to the clients. Probably a full shutdown of the server.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yeah, realtime transfer of map data from server to client isn't feasible. Well... it probably isn't on any sane client/server model, at least. If one was designed specifically for this purpose, and the server was only sending data describing the ordering of map assets already possessed by the client, it might work...

    but yeah, the point is, that's all "what if." It's not how it is or will be.

    <!--quoteo(post=1752520:date=Feb 11 2010, 04:00 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Feb 11 2010, 04:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752520"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can't have clients think they're at (X,Y,Z) and suddenly that's outside the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's pretty trivial. If you were committed to making something like this work, you could just have an algorithm to snap the player to an in-bounds location.
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  • douchebagatrondouchebagatron Custom member title Join Date: 2003-12-20 Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    a) there's no compiling at all, so there wouldn't be any compiling needed.

    and b) when they described the hotloading earlier, they said that it was necessary to reload the level for changes to occur. it would be possible to distribute live versions to the clients, but it wouldn't be easy and there wouldn't really be a reason to.
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  • culpritculprit Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33527Members, Constellation
    edited February 2010
    There's a number of game engines I've read about that allow real-time networked modding of the map with a more MMO design. I think this is sort of the concept behind LOVE, Neverdaunt 8Bit and Lego Universe. I recall some of the newer iD tech has this. It's probably great for a nice LAN, but it might not work great on general broadband. It all comes down to how long it takes to propagate the new changes out to all the clients.
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  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1752541:date=Feb 11 2010, 07:43 PM:name=culprit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (culprit @ Feb 11 2010, 07:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1752541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's a number of game engines I've read about that allow real-time networked modding of the map with a more MMO design. I think this is sort of the concept behind LOVE, Neverdaunt 8Bit and Lego Universe. I recall some of the newer iD tech has this. It's probably great for a nice LAN, but it might not work great on general broadband. It all comes down to how long it takes to propagate the new changes out to all the clients.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's true. It's similar to how NS deals with buildings though. It's not really changing the map as much as manipulating it incrementally by adding stuff in-game.

    Doing a hot-loaded map might be possible with this idea, incrementally shut off areas, re-populate, etc. but it's probably not worth it. Just close the server, re-load the map to the clients, and fire it up. Since we're saving so much time to not require uber compiles (thank goodness, took me 3 hours to render my NS1 map) it's close enough.
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