onos/fade hunting
Tha
Join Date: 2009-06-05 Member: 67694Members
Join Date: 2009-06-05 Member: 67694Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Equipment suggestions?</div>An idea just sparked my mind, in games where you have fades that keep coming into a base focus killing one marine and going through and escape route, there should be some equipment marine can purchase from armories to assist in fade/onos killing, not direct damage but more of support, such as a netgun, a biogun that launches a poisonous material to a target, or a tagger that allows you to track it on radar similar to parasite. My personal favourite however is a 5 second redeployable electric barrier.
Say a fade is harassing your base and taking a certain path out, you can get a marine and have him set up the line and at the click of a button as the fade makes his exit route a 5 second barrier will come up that nothing can pass, he can then be cornered by marines and it will make it so much easier to kill it. same thing for an onos, limiting its routes, say you know the onos is running rampant at the north section, get about 3-5 marines to push it into a hallway where they have set up a trap, it becomes a dead end and the onos trapped and unable to recieve help for 5 seconds, either fight or die, no option to run.
Say a fade is harassing your base and taking a certain path out, you can get a marine and have him set up the line and at the click of a button as the fade makes his exit route a 5 second barrier will come up that nothing can pass, he can then be cornered by marines and it will make it so much easier to kill it. same thing for an onos, limiting its routes, say you know the onos is running rampant at the north section, get about 3-5 marines to push it into a hallway where they have set up a trap, it becomes a dead end and the onos trapped and unable to recieve help for 5 seconds, either fight or die, no option to run.
Comments
No.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=108860" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=108860</a>
edit: sorry, that was not constructive, here's something that is:
if you play marines exclusively and F4 when you're force-randomned onto Aliens - we don't want to hear from you.
if you typically load 150+ spare LMG ammo - we don't want to hear from you
if your minimap ends at the extents of marine base - we don't want to hear from you
if you think aliens are "MEGA OP" and "NEVAR DIE EVEN THO I SHOOTS THEM!" - we don't want to hear from you
and lastly,
if you think every alien class needs an easy counter that can be deployed with the click of a button - we don't want to hear from you
At the moment its either kill it by it being cocky and trying that marine with 150 hp and 25 armor, or trapping its route by having a marine jump infront of it as it tries to make that exit. Spellman this is not about a netgun, theres multiple suggestions, and im asking you know, people like you to add to it.
and renegade dont say we, there would be some that would agree its more sensible to have a portable short term barrier to stop a deadly terror rather then a man who would prolly get knocked over just by it even whizzing past him.
You're just mad that no ones suggesting ways to make the alien team more overpowered then they already are. The people that play on the marine team knew this since NS1, and hence the threads to suggest new ways to improve the marines fighting ability (and the supporters that post in favor of these popular often reposted ideas). Surviving on the marine team and having the tools needed to kill (not wound) the enemy is critically important towards the game being enjoyable overall (and people expect marines to be badasses, at least they would if they didn't play NS1 first.... i.e. the Marine team is the first stop for new players of NS2 out of choice!!!) to the point that i suggest the aliens have it hard in NS2 (more skill required, quick death from, now, FINALLY!!!!!, advanced marine weapons). Lets hope NS2 is not NS1 with new graphics.
Imagined myself playing as fade doing uberskillz0rs blinks and swipes then getting netted by some nub with a net gun.
Whole rine time shoots at me
Wasted 50 res.
Imagined myself playing as marine with nubgun.
Netted fade
Go "HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA like a 12 year old"
No.
Thought of a counter
Jetpack with shotgun chasing down fade, requires skill.
Focusedwolf, stop whoring marines and go play aliens.
Play as alien with positive K/D everytime. Early game, midgame, and endgame.
Record it.
BTW, aliens aren't bots. If you want to go play like this, go on a sandbox server.
Just because you cant kill aliens dosent mean that the game is unbalanced and aliens are OP.
Imagined myself playing as fade doing uberskillz0rs blinks and swipes then getting netted by some nub with a net gun.
Whole rine time shoots at me
Wasted 50 res.
Imagined myself playing as marine with nubgun.
Netted fade
Go "HAHHAHAHAHAHAHA like a 12 year old"
No.
Thought of a counter
Jetpack with shotgun chasing down fade, requires skill.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
1. your assuming fades cost 50 res.. what if they're toned down to like 10 res? didnt think about that?
2. i wasnt talking specifically about netgun.
3. if your vsing an entire marine team you deserve to die.. is that not fair? lets just say you get netted entire marine team looks at you, starts firing. backs turned skulks chew them up? only class i want to see facing 3 + marines and coming out alive is a onos.
to renegade, if you think every alien class needs an easy counter that can be deployed with the click of a button - we don't want to hear from you
this can be utilised in numerous ways, commander sets up turret down hallway, skulk pack travels down marine is in position in a corner where he can see the entrance he's laid the trap, skulk's enter the hallway see the turret turn around and run but theres a barrier, now only option is to attempt to leap past it and kill the marine rather then running, after 5 seconds the barriers over and it takes some time to recharge..
Lerk flying into vents alot? get a marine with jetpack to lay the barrier and as the lerk does a bombing run with spikes attempts to fly back into the vent bam jetpacker waiting with the vent closed off so it cant fly out and try another escape.
certainly spices the game up with utilities..
Focusedwolf, i dont know where to begin...
2. i wasnt talking specifically about netgun.
3. if your vsing an entire marine team you deserve to die.. is that not fair? lets just say you get netted entire marine team looks at you, starts firing. backs turned skulks chew them up? only class i want to see facing 3 + marines and coming out alive is a onos.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because you don't know how to fade or bad at it doesn't mean you need to add some kind of trap that disables fades.
Fades are already weak. They only have 300hp 150ap, 250ap with carapace plus a +20hp initial regeneration.
By the time fades are out you should have lvl 1 damage so your lmg does 11dmg per bullet. An lmg clip can deal 550damage. More than enough to kill a fade. You only need 4 shotgun shells to kill a fade at point blank. And shotgun does 180dmg point blank.
A good fade would try to deal the maximum amount of damage in a short amount of time using blink to its advantage, not be stupid and bumrush as a walker fade.
You should go play NS1 some more because obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.
huh. yeap. you know what forum im in?
Unknown Worlds Forums > Natural Selection 2 > Ideas and Suggestions > onos/fade hunting
<!--sizeo:5--><span style="font-size:18pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--> Natural Selection 2<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
Now that the game apparently has a bit more directed flow, there will probably be moments where you can't flank. How are aliens supposed to counteract the blockade?
Tha, you're almost as bad as focusedwolf.
If you want to hunt down fades/onos, go use a jetpack.
This serves as a mid game counter to fades and lerks, not something a commander has to spend 40 res on, then an additional 15 per person to give the jetpack to, and another 10-15 for a weapon, only to make 1 bad turn be killed instantly in a vent and have an unretrievable weapon.
I never once said aliens are op.. your assuming things. I never asked for a single player campaign with super weapons and alien bots.
Please read the thread.
Xmaine, heres an idea, gtfo thread you dont have anything more to add.
Right, because I haven't solo'd more fades than you have posts on this forum. First acquire a basic level of skill before you even approach me about anything OP.
In the meantime, refer to my initial post and select the statement that applies to you.
edit: again, non constructive, here's some help:
<!--QuoteBegin-Tha+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tha)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->wallah<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the only way to make yourself look more foolish than with a pro-nub thread is by completely destroying an idiom in an attempt to look suave. The phrase is "voila".
Let's assume the marine with the switch has got some game sense and he sticks behind a few fellow marines. I'm having trouble seeing anyone taking him out.
That leaves us with rushing in and taking the stop on your way back, which isn't exciting at all.
A brain, a gun and common sense.
Yes that's what i've been saying since they made it so commanders can't block with command chairs... I.e. we need a way to drop walls / barriers. But i would rather it last till destroyed (maybe make it use res as electricity... and the commander has to choose which he wants to be actively charged... and when it runs out, that it becomes just a wall that has to be destroyed like any other marine structure).
1. Impairing
If they can't see and hear very well, then they can't determine targets, boundaries, and paths very well. Tranquilizers, stunners, flashbangs work well for this.
2. Blocking
If they can't get around very fast, they can't get to marines or to safety quickly. Nets, walls, etc. work for this.
3. Immobilizing
If they can't move, they are sitting ducks in a turkey shoot. Tazers, nets, stunners, tranquilizers, anchors (lol) can work for this.
3. Disabling
If they can't move and can't attack, then they are like the marine trapped in the stomach of the onos. There is no hope for them. Some kind of KO device will do this.
:D
1. Impairing
If they can't see and hear very well, then they can't determine targets, boundaries, and paths very well. Tranquilizers, stunners, flashbangs work well for this.
2. Blocking
If they can't get around very fast, they can't get to marines or to safety quickly. Nets, walls, etc. work for this.
3. Immobilizing
If they can't move, they are sitting ducks in a turkey shoot. Tazers, nets, stunners, tranquilizers, anchors (lol) can work for this.
3. Disabling
If they can't move and can't attack, then they are like the marine trapped in the stomach of the onos. There is no hope for them. Some kind of KO device will do this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As xmaine said, "aliens aren't bots"
These ideas seem like a good way to piss off the people who are playing as an alien. No one wants to suddenly lose their vision or stop moving when attacking/retreating from an enemy.
Comm chair blocking was removed in NS1 because no want wanted a wall to suddenly appear in front of them. Devour isn't going to be in NS2 because no one likes to immobilized and blind while their health is slowly drained away.
Comm chair blocking was removed in NS1 because no want wanted a wall to suddenly appear in front of them. Devour isn't going to be in NS2 because no one likes to immobilized and blind while their health is slowly drained away.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Any inconvenience can piss off anyone. btw, impairment doesn't have to be 100% blind. Look at the examples in my tranquilizer thread for reference.
The problem with devour is that it was a one hit kill that punished the marine for getting too close to a hard-to-kill alien that can run faster than a jetpack and immobilize multiple marines (little defense against devour besides elevation). The devs have learned some lessons from NS1 and I'm confident that NS2 will be great.
The problem with devour is that it was a one hit kill that punished the marine for getting too close to a hard-to-kill alien that can run faster than a jetpack and immobilize multiple marines (little defense against devour besides elevation). The devs have learned some lessons from NS1 and I'm confident that NS2 will be great.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The onos could never run faster than a jetpack unless three hives are up and it is using charge. But chances are if three hives are up the marines have already lost.
A devoured marine can still be saved if his teammates bother to try and save him. Pretty much the only way he can't be saved if the alien team has enough teamwork to take down the marines chasing the fleeing onos. In either case it comes down to which team has better teamwork.
And with regard to stomp, if you didn't like getting immobilized as a marine, why would you rather be immobilized as an alien?
Indeed. We've moved from a blocking + ladder + extra map movement + immobilizer gun item too.... an insta-blocking item (and net gun is in the list). Frankly, I find the net gun a more favorable option of all, but nearly all the problems noted about it transfer over to here (and the net gun thread pointed to serious issues with it as well).
As you can see from above posts (admittedly most are a bit extra hostile), suddenly blocking a path and lowering movement ticks off quite a few people.
Generic buildable barriers tend to only gain traction because they take time to build (but they typically have the same fault of making regions impassible thus potentially breaking the map). An insta-pop-up blocker is just bad news.
Most people forgive Stomp because 1) JPs 2) temporary (~1sec stun?) 3) directed short range making flanking an easy counter (and thus lots of shooty). Most similarly forgive web because 1) you can still shoot 2) you can blow it up (nades/welder) 3) temporary (~2sec). Devour is 1) lol HA counter and 2) friends get you out, but people hate how long it is and instant cast time (albeit in melee, thus why JPs counter so well).
So, please explain what the counter to your ideas are besides "it costs res" and "it only lasts 5 seconds." That may sound harsh, but you brought up the idea, and it's yours to defend.
2) If Fade got dropped to 10 res (Ha!!) then he would be balanced accordingly and made extremely weak, so this wouldn't be a problem anyways. The scenario you proposed is basically saying "Well, What if the devs TOTALLY unbalance the game?!?! Did you think about that?!?!"
3) I'm sorry if you're not very good with a Jetpack, but Good JP Marine > Heavy marine almost any day. They're only killed too easily and a waste of res if they get dropped on...less skilled people. Not everything in the game is supposed to be "pick up and play and own easy." And HA trains are used often because both teams are usually full of less-than-stellar players, thus making it a more "sound strategy" given the circumstances.
4) If you don't have any real knowledge or intamacy of how NS1 works and the fundamentals of the game, then you still shouldn't be posting in the NS2 section. I hate to break it to you, but NS2 is being built off of the same principles of NS1; the same things that made the game as good as it was, etc. Its a new game, and its not NS 1 with updated graphics, but its still Natural Selection. Please try to keep this in mind in the future.
To be fair, the devs have claimed a 1/3,1/3,1/3 strategy. But, yes, at the core you should understand the core of NS1 before making assumptions on NS2.
That being said, throwing around specific numbers from NS1 and claiming de facto that is how it will be in NS2 is an easy way to get shot down hard. Number-fu doesn't work here.
1.Big guns
2.Jetpack
3.Motion Tracking
If you attempt to hunt down an onos/fade but get killed in the process, that is your own fault. You don't need another piece of equipment to kill them. A net would be just overkill and you'd have empty servers for days.
But yeah, people need to try playing Aliens every now and then and see how "easy" it is.