"aliens Are Weak", Wtf?!?!?

BoddoZerg · November 2002

<div class="IPBDescription">I don't get it</div> What's up with all the complaining about aliens are weak?!?!? In 75% of the games I've played since v1.01, the aliens have <i>won</i>. Am I just playing on weird servers or what?

Dunsby · November 2002

Its balanced, just depends on the quality of players and who starts of the best at the beginning.

Hatred · November 2002

Who the hell said the aliens are weak!? Sure i mean when I play as then they die in about 3 seconds BUT for everyone else they live for years! The marines are the weak ones now, that is what I have seen most people saying.

Archuxerizer · November 2002

Actually the marines are much stronger. Their problems is healing and armor repairing. An alien attacks, retreats to nearby def chambers and returns to combat. A marine will have to ask for med packs that cost money and time. A marine need a buddy with a welder to get his armor repaired. This requires money, time and a buddy who is willing to repair your armor.

Aliens can work much more independently, they can don't need a commander or another alien to activate a def chamber. They just get close to it.
Marines need to learn to work together much better than they do now. They can not afford new equipment all the time.

MaxPepper13 · November 2002

The game is balanced... but i still think the advantage to the game still goes to aleins... if you had to rate the balance marines are probably 4.8999999 while aleins are a 5.111111111

It is just a matter of tweaking here and there.

It just takes an experienced team of marines and good comm and you can lick the game easily... one or two noobs (when i say noob i mean those people who still sit at base with lmg yelling for better weapon when an ip is the only thing up)

With aleins resourses being individual they can do the job of gettin things done in many different places where comm's can only do one thing at a time.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> > <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> most of the time (early game)

To off balance <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> have <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'>

GravitonSurge · November 2002

Aliens <i>weak?</i>

*sigh*

Bronski · November 2002

Either team can be weak, its just a matter of how you play.

One thing i like doing as aliens is taking out the resources of the marines. I'll nail an area, taking out all structures. If i have lvl 3 cloak i'll wait around until they try to build more stuff. I wait for the comm to drop a turret factory, then i attack. Take out the marines and the factory then the resource tower. That is a lot of wasted resources.

If the marines stop aliens from doing this then the aliens are in trouble.

I think the game is fine. There still needs to be some tweaking here and there but nothing big. The balance has a lot to do with how well the players play.

DSYStauf · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BoddoZerg @ Nov 14 2002, 06:10 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What's up with all the complaining about aliens are weak?!?!? In 75% of the games I've played since v1.01, the aliens have <i>won</i>. Am I just playing on weird servers or what?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
I agree. In fact, <b>every</b> time I play aliens, we win.

Mousey · November 2002

Well, I'd like to state that I've done a LOT of reading on NS, I wish I could play but my Vid. Card doesn't support OpenGL, so If I am incorrect in my analization (spelling?) then I really am sorry.

I've played a LOT of StarCraft, Age Of Empires, etc. And in every game, I've learned that the way you start is often going to determine how you do later on, if you fend off the enemies rushing early on and establish your buildings and resources and tech's quickly and solidly, you'll do better later than if the rush got through and killed off some of your important buildings.

The tactics early on seem to be the most important in any RTS like game, and since NS is a mix between RTS and FPS it would make sense to me that how the teams start out will reflect on how they do later. Since Marines need the Commander, and the game is still fairly new, there's going to be quite a shortage of "good" commanders, thusly spawning the "Marines are to weak aliens win to much." assesment I've noticed.

So, when the Marines get a good Commander, the Aliens get caught off guard, and go, "wtf we're to weak.", I've heard numerious people explain, (testers, team members, etc.) that the game is still new and takes getting used to, and once people are used to it more then it will really shine balance wise, I think this is probably the soundest explanation to all of these balance complaints.

As I said, I haven't played NS, but I've done quite a bit of research at least. But if I still sound ignorant and just made a complete **obscenity** out of my neo self, then I apologize and hope someone will correct me. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

saint0z · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MaxPepper13 @ Nov 14 2002, 06:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='skulk.gif'> > <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> most of the time (early game)

To off balance <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='asrifle.gif'> have <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
/me prays

Please god, bring back the 4 emoticon limit... Please?

Battousaix · November 2002

The game is balanced but we dont know how to play it right, that´s why aliens usually pwn, because we don´t know how to play marines properlly.....

MercenaryForHire · November 2002

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Xen. 0z @ Nov 14 2002, 02:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Please god, bring back the 4 emoticon limit... Please?</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
But with a 4-icon limit, there's no way to accurately represent TSA turret spam.

In this case, <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> fits quite nicely.

(Can we get some Lerk/Fade icons too? <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'> )

- M4H

Tempest · November 2002

Biggest problem with that is the marines require more work. Everybody says the alien split resources are so great, but it's no fun when you're saving for a resource tower. =p

If both teams only do little teamwork, the aliens are better then marines. One alien can hit and run fight, falling back to def chambers when it's looking bad (and works often considering alien speed). One marine however cant. A marine cant run away to fall back from an alien, he needs the commander to heal him and someone else to weld him. And there's a big part of the problem already, unless a marine has a good comm to heal him and someone to weld him, they prolly wont live as long as aliens (who can just go to def chambers). It's simply because aliens can do a lot better solo.

If you have a 6v6 game, and 3 aliens are newbies who just run around as skulks deathmatching, well that's ok, at least they are harassing the marines while the good players on your team will get 1 or 2 gorges and build up. If you have 3 marines that are newbies who go solo deathmatching. Well then you got 2 good players left and one good comm, but that doesnt help much if those 2 players have to accomplish everything in the game. You can be sure those 3 deathmatch players wont be building much, nah why waste time building when you can deathmatch. Or in the same scenario you could have it even worse, 3 good players and 2 newbies with a newbie commander, well then it aint gonna look good.

A good commander is one of the most important (if not the most) things for marines. If you notice a newbie commander who builds everything wrong, give him hints, tell him how he should be doing it (and be polite about it, we all had to learn. I've had newbie comms who listened very well and that's a lot better then some commander on a powertrip who will only do what he likes). If the commander simply will not listen to you, then ask to replace him, or vote to eject him. This might sound rude, but if they dont wanna learn, well then they shouldnt play a commander. You're a commander for your team, not because being a commander is "cool" or because your buddy is on the server too and he always needs full equipment/health/attention (while the rest of the team can rot in hell). This is assuming you do know how to place buildings and how to be a comm... You cant judge someone else's comm abilities if you have no clue what he should be doing either.

And so many marine teams neglect to do this (tho it's becoming more common now then it used to be), DEFEND THE THIRD HIVE. Not only set up turrets and then run off never looking at it again. I've lost count of how many times the third hive is defended only with turrets (and not even siege, which makes it harder for one solo player to attack hive and fall back to def chambers), and only one turret covers one side of the tfac. Well in that case I just shoot that turret (I'm usually lerk), and fly over and happily bite the tfac. Then once tfac is gone I yell 3rd hive clear, come help quick, and a little later 4 aliens are there securing the hive and we win. When you secure a 3rd hive, set up a few turrets and a phase gate. And when it's under attack, tell your teammates to go to the hive ASAP, give waypoints if needed and tell them they can take the phase gate too.

Heresy_Fnord · November 2002

Hmm, my main problem isn't that aliens are weak. Rather EVERY single game I play in at best has balanced teams. But almost always they go unbalanced in the marines favor. I'm really tired of playing unbalanced teams. Last night I was in a pretty decent game that then went unbalanced 8 marines vs 6 aliens. Then when we were being pushed back 2 people left and it was 8 vs 4. Needless to say I quit.

You should not be able to make more than 1 extra person on a team. When it's 7 on 6 the next person to join should be forced on the team with 6 to make it 7 on 7. I keep getting into games where its constantly 2 more marines which is the cap. At least there is a cap now. I used to see 10 vs 6. What crap.

Football, basketball, soccer, etc. are played with even teams. I wouldn't even play "backyard" touch football with uneven teams.

Anlar · November 2002

Just couple thoughts.

Unbalanced teams? Half-Life has basic settings against that and they do kinda work already. It is the server operators who have not enabled them... <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='confused.gif'> Some admin/clan mods/scripts have quite advanced and sophisticated systems for this.

But I think that especially at the beginning of the game there should be more marines. The game is almost all about getting and securing the 3rd hive. And the independent aliens can do that better since they can move faster to harrass marines (the 1-2 that are trying to get the 3rd one).

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/siege.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='siege.gif'> truly does rule, but only in couple games I have seen them in PROPER places, securing that forgotten 3rd hive or the 2nd one. Mostly it is just couple <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='turret.gif'> and they get run over by couple fades.

Team playing marines do own though. Yesternight I got the first time a *nice* game. I got hmg, one friend got hmg, one grenade launcher and one shotgun peep. And the trick was to STICK TOGETHER. Took less than 20 seconds to crush 2 fades and about 10 offensive chambers and stuff. Completely defended outpost. They never knew what hit them.

First grenades over the counter, aliens back up for their safety. Go 'round the corner and simply give them hell. If they decide to charge, well.. HMGs hurt. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'>

Perhaps something should be done to balance the game. Not in the way to give powers to team, but making game playable after another side got 3rd hive. Hard, but playable. Aliens seem to be able to poke on the hives and sometime to re-take the 3rd one. Marines? They don't have any chance. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='mad.gif'>

kanseri · November 2002

I think the kharaa aren't anymore so weak

"aliens Are Weak", Wtf?!?!?

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