<!--quoteo(post=1760219:date=Mar 20 2010, 03:18 AM:name=elim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elim @ Mar 20 2010, 03:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760219"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Lame, stfu and make the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Have some respect!
<!--quoteo(post=1760226:date=Mar 20 2010, 03:53 AM:name=rammaj)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rammaj @ Mar 20 2010, 03:53 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760226"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Have some respect!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess this is a side effect of the <strike>organic pack</strike> steam-announcement. The ammount of trolls has surely grown in the last couple of weeks.
Anyway, nice to hear a podcast again. Keep them coming :)
Speaking of statistics, I got logs of hundreds of rounds of NS1 and I realized aswell you could do a lot of interesting statistics with that. I think puzl used NS1 statistics to do balancing. Outside game development, It'd be cool if you could see all kinds of statistics and graphs about the game afterwards (esp. good for commanders).
When it comes to minimaps and hotkeys, think the same thing applies to Dota and NS scene. NS1 hotkeys are ingenious, aswell as the minimap (+showmap). I wouldn't be surprised if you got a lot of fallout if you didn't have both in NS2 aswell. They have little to none drawbacks and massively add to teamwork and usability.
Speaking of recreating Wake Island (which I loved in Bf1942). Just redo ns_veil and you'll make a lot of competitive players happy. :-)
nadyliJoin Date: 2007-11-01Member: 62791Members, Squad Five Blue
League of Legends is a joke. You might want to look up <a href="http://mobagamers.com/moba-news/102-league-of-legends-a-developers-deathwish.html" target="_blank"> this.</a> Also where's the updates for alpha (Summer 2009 (Investor spoiler for release, devs saying it's probably just alpha), Fall 2009 (release also originally, later alpha, then pre-alpha at the last days of fall?), "soon" January 6 2010), engine test ("shortly" March 2, 2010, few bugs to fix March 6 2010). Don't get me wrong, you're doing an awesome job and all but lately your lack of twitters or any info (and if we get anything it's on friday, what happened to midweek tweets?) about something playable/something for us gamers that really don't get the kick out of mapping is getting pretty frustrating.
Killing you Darlings is something I've heard about before. The studio head of Insomniac was talking about this. His example was say doing Six Months of really good work, High-Res models, and just really good content, then figuring out it doesn't work, so instead of just using it you throw it out because it will end up making the game better. While that work is your "Darling" you have to "kill" it to end up with something better.
I consider myself to be a pretty big ###### on the internet but you people are just lame. There's no guarantee you get a friday update and it's not like development stopped.
/edit:
I think Blizzard changed the SC2 hotkeys so that virtually all of the hotkeys can be used with the left hand. Also, some of the new units may have had overlapping keys. I think the change is by far for the better. The Immortal, for example, has a hotkey of "I" which means I basically never use it.
<!--quoteo(post=1760229:date=Mar 20 2010, 01:26 PM:name=Zeno)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zeno @ Mar 20 2010, 01:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760229"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guess this is a side effect of the <strike>organic pack</strike> steam-announcement. The ammount of trolls has surely grown in the last couple of weeks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You mean the Steam announcement that only people who read the NS2 site know about? Because there is zero advertising for NS2 in Steam and no mention of it whatsoever on the Steam store. No forum for it either, nor was there any Steam announcement regarding the game posted.
I think even just from these few comments it is quite evident what kind of player demographic you guys have. Some are the kiddies who just love to play the game and want as much game info as possible (nothing wrong with this) and the other part of the demographic is the kinda wanna-be or can-be or is-be game devs who like the real inside dev info.
I'm of the second part and I enjoyed the podcast however I do also understand that its difficult to cater for both parties. But perhaps it would be worthwhile trying to do so maybe on releasing some dev info try and release some "cool game spam".
<b>Anyhow great podcast (IMO) I found the randomness discussion especially interesting/hilarious considering my experience in some games.</b>
I read about this Podcast last night. Honesly, it disappointed me a bit and too tired to listen to it, I went to bed. Instead I dreamt about NS2 news! I'm serious. I still remember the dream clearly. It wasn't anything in-game, but the devs showed a cliff side and how the engine handles "natural" surfaces. The impressing stuff they showed was the models of different structures and spaceships! Yes, spaceships. It was a large and really detailed dropship. Looked amazing. I got the feeling it was drivable too.
Listening to the Podcast now. No spaceships yet...
<!--quoteo(post=1760247:date=Mar 20 2010, 04:37 PM:name=yoda)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yoda @ Mar 20 2010, 04:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760247"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some are the kiddies who just love to play the game and want as much game info as possible (nothing wrong with this) and the other part of the demographic is the kinda wanna-be or can-be or is-be game devs who like the real inside dev info.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's rather hypocritical to insult a group by calling them all "kiddies" and then say "nothing wrong with this", as if you consider their opinion equally valid. I'm 28 and I don't think it's unreasonable to find this news offering unsatisfying. Since the daily twitter updates have ceased altogether this is our only chance for any information whatsoever, and to be given this instead is frankly disappointing.
Very nice podcast. Interesting to hear some stuff about other companies and how you're going to try and use them in NS2 (especially the color correction seems like a really nice idea for artists).
It's also interesting to hear you talk about VALVe and how they try to use their customer feedback in their development and how you guys are trying to do the same. I do find it ironic however that this topic once again consist of a lot of posts from people who are expecting different things from the developers then the things which are given. As an active lurker on the TF2 forums, I must say I usually see the same kind of comments after a lot of their updates.
So yes, I must agree asking customer feedback is a very good idea, but aren't you also losing customers or making them less interested in the game by doing this? If you were to wait longer for revealing, people would know a lot more about what the game is going to be about and which features will be implemented, and less people with different expectations would be attracted (of course this is different from TF2 which is update-driven and NS2 which is still in development).
So in short : I would like to hear some comment about the downsides of early customer-interaction and feedback, and how the developers deal with these not-so-happy comments.
Whole UW team there? Where is the update ? Where is the fade ? Siege cannon and range display to make better maps? Where is the first engine running as a game in a simple map ? Pffff :(
Why dont u use camera view via Youtube ? Podcasts are really borring. :(
Hey lets see how UW team is working? That could be much more interesting & funy then this podcast. Dont u have a simple camera ?
C'mon UW works with high standarts. Powerfull engine, Simple and a great editor, high resoulition high effects. But a simple *.wav :(
I love these podcasts, but then again perhaps that's because I'm into gamesdev. (The previous vid podcast was also ace :) )
Would be nice to have more of those on how you guys are approuching problems and what you are all working on. But then again it probably takes more time to set up a decent podcast than just writing up a blogtext with some pics.
some months ago you were saying "hey we're focusing on the alpha to release soon, good news it's all coming together!" now we're soon in april and still no alpha...
So what about real news ? Some people come here EVERY DAY to hear news, so it would be great to tell them real news.
What will be the the next news ? how to cook potatoes ?
Because at this rythm i can see :
_News about the fade _News about the gorge _News about onos _news about Jp _news about HMG [...] _News about commander _news about each ###### building. [...] (at this point we're in 2015) _news about how to save the world ?
<!--quoteo(post=1760236:date=Mar 20 2010, 06:46 AM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Mar 20 2010, 06:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I consider myself to be a pretty big ###### on the internet but you people are just lame. There's no guarantee you get a friday update and it's not like development stopped.
/edit:
I think Blizzard changed the SC2 hotkeys so that virtually all of the hotkeys can be used with the left hand. Also, some of the new units may have had overlapping keys. I think the change is by far for the better. The Immortal, for example, has a hotkey of "I" which means I basically never use it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Wait are you telling me they are not using the grid hotkeys of NS1 (which were invented elsewhere but nevermind) ?
<!--quoteo(post=1760263:date=Mar 20 2010, 11:45 AM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ Mar 20 2010, 11:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760263"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>What is</b> with this update?
<b>S</b>ome months ago you were saying <b>something along the lines of</b> "<b>H</b>ey<b>,</b> we're focusing on the alpha <b>but we have no specific release date yet. Hang in there!</b>" <b>And since March won't be over for another ten or eleven days I am going to stop my useless rant because no one ever said the Alpha is going to be released in March.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
TFTFY
Interesting update. I'm not much into game developing (I've actually absolutely nothing to do with it). Just keep up the good work and take your time! :)
I just hope that Valve will have the common decency to release a Linux port for Steam.
Ah, a podcast! Personally I thought it was interesting, and I agree with SentrySteve, the reason Blizzard changed the hotkeys was to make it easier to reach all of them with one hand. So even though it might be a bit harder/unusual in the beggining for the players that played the first game, it's so much better in the long run.
The color correction sounds awesome, excited to see how it's gonna work out :)
<!--quoteo(post=1760239:date=Mar 20 2010, 06:07 AM:name=steppin'razor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steppin'razor @ Mar 20 2010, 06:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760239"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sometimes I feel embarrassed to even be posting along side some of these kids. Anyway, some nice banter in the podcast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1, finnally are not video games, games, and games for kids ? Damn could I be to old for NS2 ?
La ChupacabraJoin Date: 2008-02-25Member: 63729Members
love them, podcasts! keep the coming!
and I think I know what you mean by all this "inspiration": <a href="http://kotaku.com/5493684/pole-dancing-at-the-game-developers-conference" target="_blank">http://kotaku.com/5493684/pole-dancing-at-...pers-conference</a> xD
I definitely hoped for more about actual NS2, but some less spot on moments are understandable while updates are done on a weekly basis. Of course a less progress news this week creates some expectations for the next week, even if these never give any real indication of the development progress.
As you mentioned the DotA "clone" League of Legends and dared to say something like it is an interesting way to go, on how to change the basics of a game and simplify it and making it still funny ... I don't know if anyone of you developers played Defense of the Ancients and League of Legends, the latter is so obviously aimed at just harvesting money from noobish casual players and cuts <u>every</u> (really every ...) competetive aspect of DotA.
It turns from a game where you have a huge number of aspects to take care of to be any close to medicore to a game that has only two or three aspects left, which makes it completly boring for people who enjoyed DotA.
On the plus side it may have an upgraded graphic, some neat tools for statistics and reconnecting tools and in build player stat tools. But if you consider they made a whole game out of just a single MAP of Warcraft III and EVEN CUT stuff out, I guess no one should waste his or her money on that.
So this is in NO WAY a good idea on how to make a sequel to something, it's just a perfect example how you can just make a game that is maybe enjoyed by enough casuals so you can make some money.
I played DotA for a very long time now and I played the Beta of League of Legends excessivly (I'm not judging on the balance issues there are, because it's just a beta) so I'm not trolling (at least not thaaaat much :) )
Maybe the take away message of these Hero Arena Maps (or whatever the correct term for these types of games is) especially for DotA, is that you as a developer should give the community the tools to make a "mod" or "map" that becomes so popular that you get a lot of extra sales just through these "mods" or "maps" and this is the way you are going right now, so I'm very pleased with that, but you should never ever consider LoL a good example of a sequel of a game, it feels like taking a 3³ Rubrick's cube and hand out a 1³ to the casual players.
<!--quoteo(post=1760265:date=Mar 20 2010, 06:52 AM:name=Jiriki)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jiriki @ Mar 20 2010, 06:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait are you telling me they are not using the grid hotkeys of NS1 (which were invented elsewhere but nevermind) ?
If so, seriously Blizzard, wtf!?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Grid will be an option you can select at a later time but for now the hotkeys are all about memorization since blizzard chose strange hotkeys. For example, to put a tank into Siege Mode is "D" and to take it out is "E" or some combination equally redicilous. The first time I used tanks I lost them because I was mashing the hotkey that put them into siege mode assuming it's the same key to get them out. Syke.
I'm not sure if 100% custom hotkeys will ever be in.
Comments
Have some respect!
Enjoyed the podcast, was hoping for some game content peaks but this was good.
I guess this is a side effect of the <strike>organic pack</strike> steam-announcement. The ammount of trolls has surely grown in the last couple of weeks.
Anyway, nice to hear a podcast again. Keep them coming :)
Speaking of statistics, I got logs of hundreds of rounds of NS1 and I realized aswell you could do a lot of interesting statistics with that. I think puzl used NS1 statistics to do balancing. Outside game development, It'd be cool if you could see all kinds of statistics and graphs about the game afterwards (esp. good for commanders).
When it comes to minimaps and hotkeys, think the same thing applies to Dota and NS scene. NS1 hotkeys are ingenious, aswell as the minimap (+showmap). I wouldn't be surprised if you got a lot of fallout if you didn't have both in NS2 aswell. They have little to none drawbacks and massively add to teamwork and usability.
Speaking of recreating Wake Island (which I loved in Bf1942). Just redo ns_veil and you'll make a lot of competitive players happy. :-)
Also where's the updates for alpha (Summer 2009 (Investor spoiler for release, devs saying it's probably just alpha), Fall 2009 (release also originally, later alpha, then pre-alpha at the last days of fall?), "soon" January 6 2010), engine test ("shortly" March 2, 2010, few bugs to fix March 6 2010). Don't get me wrong, you're doing an awesome job and all but lately your lack of twitters or any info (and if we get anything it's on friday, what happened to midweek tweets?) about something playable/something for us gamers that really don't get the kick out of mapping is getting pretty frustrating.
/edit:
I think Blizzard changed the SC2 hotkeys so that virtually all of the hotkeys can be used with the left hand. Also, some of the new units may have had overlapping keys. I think the change is by far for the better. The Immortal, for example, has a hotkey of "I" which means I basically never use it.
Great job NS2 team :)
You mean the Steam announcement that only people who read the NS2 site know about? Because there is zero advertising for NS2 in Steam and no mention of it whatsoever on the Steam store. No forum for it either, nor was there any Steam announcement regarding the game posted.
I'm of the second part and I enjoyed the podcast however I do also understand that its difficult to cater for both parties. But perhaps it would be worthwhile trying to do so maybe on releasing some dev info try and release some "cool game spam".
<b>Anyhow great podcast (IMO) I found the randomness discussion especially interesting/hilarious considering my experience in some games.</b>
Listening to the Podcast now. No spaceships yet...
It's rather hypocritical to insult a group by calling them all "kiddies" and then say "nothing wrong with this", as if you consider their opinion equally valid. I'm 28 and I don't think it's unreasonable to find this news offering unsatisfying. Since the daily twitter updates have ceased altogether this is our only chance for any information whatsoever, and to be given this instead is frankly disappointing.
It's also interesting to hear you talk about VALVe and how they try to use their customer feedback in their development and how you guys are trying to do the same. I do find it ironic however that this topic once again consist of a lot of posts from people who are expecting different things from the developers then the things which are given. As an active lurker on the TF2 forums, I must say I usually see the same kind of comments after a lot of their updates.
So yes, I must agree asking customer feedback is a very good idea, but aren't you also losing customers or making them less interested in the game by doing this? If you were to wait longer for revealing, people would know a lot more about what the game is going to be about and which features will be implemented, and less people with different expectations would be attracted (of course this is different from TF2 which is update-driven and NS2 which is still in development).
So in short : I would like to hear some comment about the downsides of early customer-interaction and feedback, and how the developers deal with these not-so-happy comments.
Why dont u use camera view via Youtube ? Podcasts are really borring. :(
Hey lets see how UW team is working? That could be much more interesting & funy then this podcast. Dont u have a simple camera ?
C'mon UW works with high standarts. Powerfull engine, Simple and a great editor, high resoulition high effects. But a simple *.wav :(
(The previous vid podcast was also ace :) )
Would be nice to have more of those on how you guys are approuching problems and what you are all working on.
But then again it probably takes more time to set up a decent podcast than just writing up a blogtext with some pics.
Great stuff, GDC sounded interesting!
some months ago you were saying "hey we're focusing on the alpha to release soon, good news it's all coming together!"
now we're soon in april and still no alpha...
So what about real news ?
Some people come here EVERY DAY to hear news, so it would be great to tell them real news.
What will be the the next news ? how to cook potatoes ?
Because at this rythm i can see :
_News about the fade
_News about the gorge
_News about onos
_news about Jp
_news about HMG
[...]
_News about commander
_news about each ###### building.
[...] (at this point we're in 2015)
_news about how to save the world ?
Wake up guys...
/edit:
I think Blizzard changed the SC2 hotkeys so that virtually all of the hotkeys can be used with the left hand. Also, some of the new units may have had overlapping keys. I think the change is by far for the better. The Immortal, for example, has a hotkey of "I" which means I basically never use it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wait are you telling me they are not using the grid hotkeys of NS1 (which were invented elsewhere but nevermind) ?
If so, seriously Blizzard, wtf!?
<b>S</b>ome months ago you were saying <b>something along the lines of</b> "<b>H</b>ey<b>,</b> we're focusing on the alpha <b>but we have no specific release date yet. Hang in there!</b>"
<b>And since March won't be over for another ten or eleven days I am going to stop my useless rant because no one ever said the Alpha is going to be released in March.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
TFTFY
Interesting update. I'm not much into game developing (I've actually absolutely nothing to do with it). Just keep up the good work and take your time! :)
I just hope that Valve will have the common decency to release a Linux port for Steam.
The color correction sounds awesome, excited to see how it's gonna work out :)
+1, finnally are not video games, games, and games for kids ? Damn could I be to old for NS2 ?
and I think I know what you mean by all this "inspiration":
<a href="http://kotaku.com/5493684/pole-dancing-at-the-game-developers-conference" target="_blank">http://kotaku.com/5493684/pole-dancing-at-...pers-conference</a> xD
It's been almost a month since we recieved your email about engine test soon to be starting, and there's been no mention of it since?
It turns from a game where you have a huge number of aspects to take care of to be any close to medicore to a game that has only two or three aspects left, which makes it completly boring for people who enjoyed DotA.
On the plus side it may have an upgraded graphic, some neat tools for statistics and reconnecting tools and in build player stat tools.
But if you consider they made a whole game out of just a single MAP of Warcraft III and EVEN CUT stuff out, I guess no one should waste his or her money on that.
So this is in NO WAY a good idea on how to make a sequel to something, it's just a perfect example how you can just make a game that is maybe enjoyed by enough casuals so you can make some money.
I played DotA for a very long time now and I played the Beta of League of Legends excessivly (I'm not judging on the balance issues there are, because it's just a beta) so I'm not trolling (at least not thaaaat much :) )
Maybe the take away message of these Hero Arena Maps (or whatever the correct term for these types of games is) especially for DotA, is that you as a developer should give the community the tools to make a "mod" or "map" that becomes so popular that you get a lot of extra sales just through these "mods" or "maps" and this is the way you are going right now, so I'm very pleased with that, but you should never ever consider LoL a good example of a sequel of a game, it feels like taking a 3³ Rubrick's cube and hand out a 1³ to the casual players.
Enjoy your weekend,
1mannARMEE
- Garo =)
If so, seriously Blizzard, wtf!?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Grid will be an option you can select at a later time but for now the hotkeys are all about memorization since blizzard chose strange hotkeys. For example, to put a tank into Siege Mode is "D" and to take it out is "E" or some combination equally redicilous. The first time I used tanks I lost them because I was mashing the hotkey that put them into siege mode assuming it's the same key to get them out. Syke.
I'm not sure if 100% custom hotkeys will ever be in.