alien evolution revolution
fr0st2k
Join Date: 2004-04-26 Member: 28210Members
Join Date: 2004-04-26 Member: 28210Members
<div class="IPBDescription">possible change in how aliens use resources</div>Resources for aliens are a bit strange imo. I think instead of limited evolution on 'time it takes to gather 'x' resources' they should be spent on other things, like specific upgrades per evolved alien, and whatever the alien commander will be able to do.
Heres a little expansion on that premise. Aliens start the game, they begin collecting resources, great...so far so good. However, a specific upgrade option is now available for aliens, which has multiple levels. The upgrade would be unique per player, but can be collected over the course of multiple lives.
Evolution Ability (essentially, all aliens would need this in order to evolve at all) -> relatively cheap, and just there as a buffer for the start of the game)
rank 1 = Increases current aliens evolution speed by 20%
rank 2 = 50% and cost more resources
rank 3 = 100% and even more resources
rank 4 = 500% and a lot of resources.
So now, when you start out as skulk, you can make a decision; Run around as a skulk for a while and upgrade, or start your evolution process immediately. Evolving would still cost resources, but it wouldnt be as huge a cost, and could be cut down dramatically. Essentially, you are balancing time in cocoon with resources needed.
In this scenario, aliens can essentially go Onos at the start of the game, and imo, this is where the fun of the idea comes from. When you go Onos at the start of the game, you'll be put into cocoon state. If you go into cocoon state at Rank 1 evolution speed, you'll obviously be in it for a while(2 mins?). And, to make things even more fun, a message should pop up to the marines saying, "Sensors are picking up strong alien signature!" or something, indicating where the cocoon is on the map. So now marines have to make a decision to go find and destroy the cocoon before it hatches, mixing up strategies a bit, and putting them on edge as well, making each game a bit more exciting.
Now, no one wants to sit in a cocoon for 2 minutes and stare at open hallways, so i suggest adding a little scout alien when you go into cocoon stage. A little cockroach guy that can climb on walls and move at a rather fast pace.
Doing things this way would help differentiate aliens and marines further, while ensuring that balance can be found between both teams.
I also like the idea of having the choice to evolve earlier and whenever you want, rather then having to do it later in the game.
Heres a little expansion on that premise. Aliens start the game, they begin collecting resources, great...so far so good. However, a specific upgrade option is now available for aliens, which has multiple levels. The upgrade would be unique per player, but can be collected over the course of multiple lives.
Evolution Ability (essentially, all aliens would need this in order to evolve at all) -> relatively cheap, and just there as a buffer for the start of the game)
rank 1 = Increases current aliens evolution speed by 20%
rank 2 = 50% and cost more resources
rank 3 = 100% and even more resources
rank 4 = 500% and a lot of resources.
So now, when you start out as skulk, you can make a decision; Run around as a skulk for a while and upgrade, or start your evolution process immediately. Evolving would still cost resources, but it wouldnt be as huge a cost, and could be cut down dramatically. Essentially, you are balancing time in cocoon with resources needed.
In this scenario, aliens can essentially go Onos at the start of the game, and imo, this is where the fun of the idea comes from. When you go Onos at the start of the game, you'll be put into cocoon state. If you go into cocoon state at Rank 1 evolution speed, you'll obviously be in it for a while(2 mins?). And, to make things even more fun, a message should pop up to the marines saying, "Sensors are picking up strong alien signature!" or something, indicating where the cocoon is on the map. So now marines have to make a decision to go find and destroy the cocoon before it hatches, mixing up strategies a bit, and putting them on edge as well, making each game a bit more exciting.
Now, no one wants to sit in a cocoon for 2 minutes and stare at open hallways, so i suggest adding a little scout alien when you go into cocoon stage. A little cockroach guy that can climb on walls and move at a rather fast pace.
Doing things this way would help differentiate aliens and marines further, while ensuring that balance can be found between both teams.
I also like the idea of having the choice to evolve earlier and whenever you want, rather then having to do it later in the game.
Comments
<ol type='1'><li>All lifeforms are free, main cost is time spent gestating (seems like this considering your comment about start and evolve instantly). Bigger lifeform (Onos) take a really, really long time, so probably unviable in early stages.</li><li>To reduce time gestating for any given lifeform, each individual Alien must upgrade their "Evolution" trait which reduces gestation time, and each level costs more and more res. These trait levels are kept for the rest of the game and are per-player.</li><li>Evolving to higher lifeforms like Fade and Onos not only take a lot of time but the Marines get notified.</li><li>To mitigate the down time, spawn glowie/scout-roach to give a mini-game while gestating.</li></ol>
My biggest beef is that you're making players sit around and gestate. If there's anything we've learned from NS1, people don't like to sit around and do nothing. The scouting idea is meh to help fix that problem, but it's a good start.
The other issue is item (1). If we make it so that a valid strat is hide 1 or 2 players in the Hive and start evolving the moment the game starts, we have a serious balance problem. If we make it unvalid, how do we show this to new players? Most don't understand that time spent evolving makes you useless to the team, and keeping Marines at bay early is more important than suddenly popping out as an Onos 5 minutes into the game. You're essentially making it possible for a new Alien to shoot his team in the foot, thinking they should just go for the biggest baddest Alien at the start.
The Evolution trait itself isn't too bad. Some way, perhaps for the Alien Commander, to upgrade how fast you gestate would allow players to re-gestate into higher lifeforms quicker and safer, so if you lose 2 Onoses, they can perhaps (if you've upgraded it) quickly get Onoses back into the fight.
Of course, I could just be misreading your post. I recommend you try to detail what the core of your idea is better. See: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=109046&st=0" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...109046&st=0</a>
The upgradeable evolve speed would have to be per player, and would have to be reset after each upgrade(which is why it needs to be per player).
*possible idea* would be to have a different resource for aliens on an individual basis (in fact...this could work for marines as well..maybe a new topic). For instance, dead marine bodies could be harvested(think WoW cannibalize skill). Using those resources, you can upgrade your evolve speed so that down the road they can make a quick run to a higher alien. (Marines could harvest aliens and use them to upgrade their guns as well)
I had thought about the problem is players decide to upgrade from the start, and i believe the above idea would solve that. I also mentioned earlier that it would require a small amount of resources for upgrades(which scale with alien tier of course) so that marines would at least have the ability to start moving in before they get the ONOS message.
Another idea for the alien commander upgrades would be something like, "Cloak energy reading" so that the onos evolve message wouldn't appear. This would be later game, when marines could actually deal with an Onos instead of requiring them to rush towards the gestating cocoon.
B) Bad players will regularly opt to grab some tea or something and go for broke with a two minute gestation.
C) Having your team-mates choose to be useless for two minutes is crap for the rest of the playing players.
D) If you're killed at 1min 59secs, it's almost two minutes absolutely waste at a dramatic cost for you and your team.
E) Negates the whole point of resources apart from for gorges.
F) If a good player gets a two minute onos, it's GG.
G) Doing nothing for two minutes is boring.
See, that right there is vague and makes me confused. What do mean "reset after each upgrade"? Do you mean after they evolve to a lifeform they lose the Evolution Speed levels they bought?
My main issue, if this is correct, is what is the primary benefit of this system? We've moved the cost from resources (# of nodes capped + time) to a purely time cost (sped up by resource spending). What does this really do that makes it better than the old way? The only major benefit I see is that we are no longer tied as tightly to resources to get higher lifeforms. However, by making the highest lifeforms take a really long time (i.e. too long to be practical) unless you have the Evolution Speed trait, aren't we still tying the higher lifeforms to resource income, and thus they only will show up later in the game? See again my other problem with noobs inadvertently wasting their 5 minutes to evolve and shooting themselves and their team in the foot. Is this a correct assessment?
<!--quoteo(post=1760646:date=Mar 22 2010, 11:47 AM:name=fr0st2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fr0st2k @ Mar 22 2010, 11:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->*possible idea* would be to have a different resource for aliens on an individual basis (in fact...this could work for marines as well..maybe a new topic). For instance, dead marine bodies could be harvested(think WoW cannibalize skill). Using those resources, you can upgrade your evolve speed so that down the road they can make a quick run to a higher alien. (Marines could harvest aliens and use them to upgrade their guns as well)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So instead of pure RFK and the baseline res node income, an alternative means to help players get their evolve back. Interesting, but I suggest that becomes its own topic. Unless for some reason this is a secondary resource that only feeds the Evolution Speed trait (and perhaps is the only resource you can use on leveling it up)?
<!--quoteo(post=1760646:date=Mar 22 2010, 11:47 AM:name=fr0st2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fr0st2k @ Mar 22 2010, 11:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1760646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I had thought about the problem is players decide to upgrade from the start, and i believe the above idea would solve that. I also mentioned earlier that it would require a small amount of resources for upgrades(which scale with alien tier of course) so that marines would at least have the ability to start moving in before they get the ONOS message.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Again, clarify. Are you also suggesting basic upgrades (Cloak, Celerity, etc.) require resources? And if so, how would that give the marines "the ability to start moving in before they get the ONOS message"?
If we move to a purely time-based system for lifeform upgrading, then I would agree that we would require basic upgrades like Celerity and Carapace to cost resources, although the main bulk will probably be spent on your new Evolution Speed trait.