<!--quoteo(post=1770509:date=May 9 2010, 01:20 PM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ May 9 2010, 01:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770509"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Meh, I've seen 3-D in movies and games, it's definitely not "here" yet. Much like a handful of Fiber-optic-connected computers in the basement of DARPA didn't yet constitute the "Internet". It might be on it's way, but this isn't "it", 3-D today is more like an over-glorified bump-mapping of yester-decade.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are you high cause I have it and it's HERE. If you don't have an Nvidia 3d vision setup. STFU you don't know that the F your talking about. You work for ATI or something?
Sorry but I just hate people how sound they are some sort of authority on sht they don't know a thing about.
<!--quoteo(post=1770521:date=May 9 2010, 02:25 PM:name=alex1g)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alex1g @ May 9 2010, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770521"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you high cause I have it and it's HERE. If you don't have an Nvidia 3d vision setup. STFU you don't know that the F your talking about. You work for ATI or something?Sorry but I just hate people how sound they are some sort of authority on sht they don't know a thing about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> go learn to spell kid, get some class, come back when you have some couth.
Good lord old man. I was always thought to respect my elders so I'll leave it at that. But seriously if your too set it your ways don't hinder the rest of us from trying to have a good time.
<!--quoteo(post=1770521:date=May 10 2010, 05:25 AM:name=alex1g)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alex1g @ May 10 2010, 05:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770521"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Are you high cause I have it and it's HERE. If you don't have an Nvidia 3d vision setup. STFU you don't know that the F your talking about. You work for ATI or something?
Sorry but I just hate people how sound they are some sort of authority on sht they don't know a thing about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are more 3D setups then just the NVIDIA one. I prefer the Zalman equipment, but there are also the iz3d monitors or the DIY projector setups. Actually, to be 100% honest, I find the 120hz solutions all the major tv brands (and NVIDIA) are using to be the worst method with the flickering and rechargable glasses. They just chose the cheapest option for themselves (which is the most expensive for the consumer :( )
I looked at buying Zalman equipment but I wanted to play on a very large screen so I opted for the Nvidia solution. I had a regular projector so getting another one was no big deal. I'm extremely happy about my purchase and would recommend it for people looking into getting their own 3d setup. I play on a 6 by 8 foot screen and it is sooo awesome. The more ppl get informed about how awesome 3d is the more it will become mainstream. NS 2 is a piece of art so far in 3d, I can't wait till the full game comes out. I'm quitting my job and vegging out in the remake of NS_Hera.
<!--quoteo(post=1770573:date=May 10 2010, 04:23 PM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ May 10 2010, 04:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770573"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Projector solutions are limited to 720p in 3D.
Polarized glasses solutions divide your resolution by 2.
shuttering glasses are the best solution to have quality.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is true that the Zalman is interlaced, however at 1080 I can tell you from experience (Especially on the 21.5" monitor I have) that you don't notice. You also have to realise that the full resolution is there, just given to the seperate eyes. Only places that I've found you can tell it's interlaced is when reading very fine text. Even then the text is very readable. I've been able to play games like these for hours and hours at a time with no eyestrain (Heh, it was a marathon with friends :)). On the other hand - the iZ3D uses polarization too and does not use interlaced methods: Resolution is unaffected.
I've also used the 120hz shutters. Not only are the glasses really pricey ($150+ at last check) and require charging they also give a flickering effect that you can certainly feel after only a few minutes of play. I've no doubt it's usuable, but I can't imagine the strain is healthy on your eyes and the headaches are almost unavoidable when you thing about it (Constant flicking!).
I'm not entirely sure that projectors are limited to 720p either, do you have a source on that? I'd assume it's only limited to the resolution of the projectors you use?
projector are limited to 720p they can't manage full hd information x2 for 3D. (and we're still waiting for the HDMI 1.4a)
And with polarized glasses you're forced to have resolution divided by two... there's not other way (except for custom screen with planar system but it's difficult to realise and take a lot of place). And thats why polarized glasses have not been chosen by the most part.
With 120hz shuttering glasses you have a 60hz flicker on each eye.. How can u see some flickering at 60hz ??? it's impossible, that's the same frequency that the LCD had for years. What you say is true with 100hz screen (50hz per eyes).
720p is actually better than 1080i, so it runs silky smooth. I run my games at 1920 x 720 res. They're shuttering glasses so each eye gets 60 frames per second. You guys can see the 100s of people that are already using 3d tech at.
<!--quoteo(post=1770598:date=May 10 2010, 09:42 PM:name=Tgaud)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tgaud @ May 10 2010, 09:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1770598"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->projector are limited to 720p they can't manage full hd information x2 for 3D. (and we're still waiting for the HDMI 1.4a)
And with polarized glasses you're forced to have resolution divided by two... there's not other way (except for custom screen with planar system but it's difficult to realise and take a lot of place). And thats why polarized glasses have not been chosen by the most part.
With 120hz shuttering glasses you have a 60hz flicker on each eye.. How can u see some flickering at 60hz ??? it's impossible, that's the same frequency that the LCD had for years. What you say is true with 100hz screen (50hz per eyes).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm talking aobut using two polarized projectors - not just one :) Expensive sure, but amazing never the less.
And I'll tell you again, the resolution is not cut in two for the iZ3D, it uses an LCD 'sandwich' + polarization layer. It uses polarisation and no resolution affected. Don't believe me? Check out <a href="http://www.iZ3D.com" target="_blank">http://www.iZ3D.com</a>. THe resolution is not cut in two on a Zalmon either, it's just each alternate line is fed to the other eye. The resolution is still there, just split up. Cinemas also used polarised glasses and I can guarantee that they don't use interlaced :)
The difference with a CRT and this is that on the phosphorus panel on the front of the unit the light is refreshed every 60hz, not cut off and then resupplied completely. It's more of a (Very subtle) strobe effect rather then a flicker. More of a slight dim then relight instead of a full on-off situation. The difference is actually quite apparent :) Just ask these <a href="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=150297" target="_blank">Folk</a>. I found that post on the very front page of the NV3D forums.
when resolution is split up between eyes, it's what we call semi resolution. cuz each eyes see only one half resolution.
so imagine that you look a cube, you face it. you're in a 3d position where your left eyes see the front and left side of the cube, but your right eyes can't and only see the "front face".
Well, if you consider information about this left side of the cube, your left eyes will have a divided resolution.. and your right eye wont have the extra info of this side, cuz the right eyes is misplaced to see it.
So in the end, you only have half the resolution information of this part of the image.
This is an example with a cube, but that's the same thing with every polygon. It's why we call that "half resolution". cuz each eyes only see half and the info, and they aren't even complementary in all the scenario.
Heh, I have used both - and I can tell you it does not make a huge difference at all. Both drivers I believe just double the image anyway without rendering the different angular perspective: That is, 2D images with depth, and strange as that sounds. In this case, both eyes have the same information.
Anyway, In the end you have your preferences and I have mine. I just can't imagine a family buying a several thousand dollar TV set and then forking out $150 apiece for the glasses when polarisation like iZ3D's or the dual projector setup solves the issue without the Zalman's resolution cut (as insignificant as it might be). I am in fact returning my Zalman today due to a defect, so I'm back in the 3D-purchasing crowd again. I'm not sure what my next move will be, but I might wait until the next generation of polarized devices!
If I had a lot of money I'd be developing a polarised 3D projector (Rather then 120hz) for retail and selling at a reasonable price with inexpensive glasses. You would make a killing in the 3D craze. But I'm a student with no startup capital, so that can be someone elses enterprise :)
the only solution to have 3D in polarized and full HD 1080p is the planar screen.
You take two lcd, each one polarized differently. you put them in a 90degree angle. and between them , at 45degree you put a semi transparent/reflection glasse. So when you look the glasse you will see a full Left eye information by transparency, and a full right eye information by reflection.
That's the only way, but it's too complicated to build.
and by the way : driver does make a different angular perspectif, with the Z buffer. direct x has the information about object in space so it has all it need to make two different image.
the 2D -> 3D thing is just good for 2D movies sources. Games are full 3D.
But for the iZ3D and dual polarised projectors - this is not the case? Both eyes get full 3D information in this method!
I have seen that planar method before and it's interesting because it has little to no ghosting at all, but you're right, fairly infeasible. I'm interested to hear why you think that's the only method that can get 1080 though, as the above two seem to be two other methods that should work just fine? (the iZ3D monitor is not HD yet of course, but I believe they aim to have one out before the end of the year).
But you have to take a special screen.... and the videoproj cost.. 10 000$ :) And the luminosity is divided by 4. (divided by 2 by a mechanical effetct and then you have to add the glasses polarized effect...)
Both Ati and nVidia offer 3D modes. Relatively easy to code it into a game, but lack of commercial adoption for $200 LCD glasses you have to wear while playing, along with all the warnings that children, seniors, people prone to seizures, epilepsy, pregnant woman, etc shouldn't use the glasses, along with the warning that you shouldn't use them longer then 15 minutes at a time, should lead one to imagine, adoption of the technology isn't quite a priority for most game companies.
Comments
Are you high cause I have it and it's HERE. If you don't have an Nvidia 3d vision setup. STFU you don't know that the F your talking about. You work for ATI or something?
Sorry but I just hate people how sound they are some sort of authority on sht they don't know a thing about.
go learn to spell kid, get some class, come back when you have some couth.
Sorry but I just hate people how sound they are some sort of authority on sht they don't know a thing about.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are more 3D setups then just the NVIDIA one. I prefer the Zalman equipment, but there are also the iz3d monitors or the DIY projector setups. Actually, to be 100% honest, I find the 120hz solutions all the major tv brands (and NVIDIA) are using to be the worst method with the flickering and rechargable glasses. They just chose the cheapest option for themselves (which is the most expensive for the consumer :( )
Polarized glasses solutions divide your resolution by 2.
shuttering glasses are the best solution to have quality.
Polarized glasses solutions divide your resolution by 2.
shuttering glasses are the best solution to have quality.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It is true that the Zalman is interlaced, however at 1080 I can tell you from experience (Especially on the 21.5" monitor I have) that you don't notice. You also have to realise that the full resolution is there, just given to the seperate eyes. Only places that I've found you can tell it's interlaced is when reading very fine text. Even then the text is very readable. I've been able to play games like these for hours and hours at a time with no eyestrain (Heh, it was a marathon with friends :)). On the other hand - the iZ3D uses polarization too and does not use interlaced methods: Resolution is unaffected.
I've also used the 120hz shutters. Not only are the glasses really pricey ($150+ at last check) and require charging they also give a flickering effect that you can certainly feel after only a few minutes of play. I've no doubt it's usuable, but I can't imagine the strain is healthy on your eyes and the headaches are almost unavoidable when you thing about it (Constant flicking!).
I'm not entirely sure that projectors are limited to 720p either, do you have a source on that? I'd assume it's only limited to the resolution of the projectors you use?
(and we're still waiting for the HDMI 1.4a)
And with polarized glasses you're forced to have resolution divided by two... there's not other way
(except for custom screen with planar system but it's difficult to realise and take a lot of place).
And thats why polarized glasses have not been chosen by the most part.
With 120hz shuttering glasses you have a 60hz flicker on each eye..
How can u see some flickering at 60hz ??? it's impossible, that's the same frequency that the LCD had for years.
What you say is true with 100hz screen (50hz per eyes).
<a href="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showforum=40" target="_blank">http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showforum=40</a>
Most people on the site have differents setups.
(and we're still waiting for the HDMI 1.4a)
And with polarized glasses you're forced to have resolution divided by two... there's not other way
(except for custom screen with planar system but it's difficult to realise and take a lot of place).
And thats why polarized glasses have not been chosen by the most part.
With 120hz shuttering glasses you have a 60hz flicker on each eye..
How can u see some flickering at 60hz ??? it's impossible, that's the same frequency that the LCD had for years.
What you say is true with 100hz screen (50hz per eyes).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm talking aobut using two polarized projectors - not just one :) Expensive sure, but amazing never the less.
And I'll tell you again, the resolution is not cut in two for the iZ3D, it uses an LCD 'sandwich' + polarization layer. It uses polarisation and no resolution affected. Don't believe me? Check out <a href="http://www.iZ3D.com" target="_blank">http://www.iZ3D.com</a>. THe resolution is not cut in two on a Zalmon either, it's just each alternate line is fed to the other eye. The resolution is still there, just split up. Cinemas also used polarised glasses and I can guarantee that they don't use interlaced :)
The difference with a CRT and this is that on the phosphorus panel on the front of the unit the light is refreshed every 60hz, not cut off and then resupplied completely. It's more of a (Very subtle) strobe effect rather then a flicker. More of a slight dim then relight instead of a full on-off situation. The difference is actually quite apparent :) Just ask these <a href="http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=150297" target="_blank">Folk</a>. I found that post on the very front page of the NV3D forums.
cuz each eyes see only one half resolution.
so imagine that you look a cube, you face it. you're in a 3d position where your left eyes see the front and left side of the cube, but your right eyes can't and only see the "front face".
Well, if you consider information about this left side of the cube, your left eyes will have a divided resolution.. and your right eye wont have the extra info of this side, cuz the right eyes is misplaced to see it.
So in the end, you only have half the resolution information of this part of the image.
This is an example with a cube, but that's the same thing with every polygon.
It's why we call that "half resolution".
cuz each eyes only see half and the info, and they aren't even complementary in all the scenario.
and in the end it makes a big difference.
Both drivers I believe just double the image anyway without rendering the different angular perspective: That is, 2D images with depth, and strange as that sounds. In this case, both eyes have the same information.
Anyway, In the end you have your preferences and I have mine. I just can't imagine a family buying a several thousand dollar TV set and then forking out $150 apiece for the glasses when polarisation like iZ3D's or the dual projector setup solves the issue without the Zalman's resolution cut (as insignificant as it might be). I am in fact returning my Zalman today due to a defect, so I'm back in the 3D-purchasing crowd again. I'm not sure what my next move will be, but I might wait until the next generation of polarized devices!
If I had a lot of money I'd be developing a polarised 3D projector (Rather then 120hz) for retail and selling at a reasonable price with inexpensive glasses. You would make a killing in the 3D craze. But I'm a student with no startup capital, so that can be someone elses enterprise :)
the only solution to have 3D in polarized and full HD 1080p is the planar screen.
You take two lcd, each one polarized differently. you put them in a 90degree angle. and between them , at 45degree you put a semi transparent/reflection glasse.
So when you look the glasse you will see a full Left eye information by transparency, and a full right eye information by reflection.
That's the only way, but it's too complicated to build.
and by the way : driver does make a different angular perspectif, with the Z buffer.
direct x has the information about object in space so it has all it need to make two different image.
the 2D -> 3D thing is just good for 2D movies sources. Games are full 3D.
But for the iZ3D and dual polarised projectors - this is not the case?
Both eyes get full 3D information in this method!
I have seen that planar method before and it's interesting because it has little to no ghosting at all, but you're right, fairly infeasible.
I'm interested to hear why you think that's the only method that can get 1080 though, as the above two seem to be two other methods that should work just fine? (the iZ3D monitor is not HD yet of course, but I believe they aim to have one out before the end of the year).
But you have to take a special screen.... and the videoproj cost.. 10 000$ :)
And the luminosity is divided by 4. (divided by 2 by a mechanical effetct and then you have to add the glasses polarized effect...)
but.. if you have money .. :)
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw</a>