New info taken out of the game's code

Mr. Epic

<!--quoteo(post=1766493:date=Apr 13 2010, 02:16 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Apr 13 2010, 02:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not dynamically creating new pathways. It would utilize a portal system, basically placing an alien infestation tunnel model in between the 2 portal ends. Perfectly doable, though still quite a bit of work to do properly, so it may or may not make it in the first release.

--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
it would be EXTREMELY cool if you could do it, the hardest part is would be allowing other players to see eachother properly...

If you required the tunnels to be in an "S" shape of sorts, you would eliminate any chance of having to render both worlds at once. Additionally, if you set minimum size requirements to the tunnel distances you could also ensure that the S shape would never be negated.

Zek

I can't imagine a dynamic tunnel going all the way between the two points actually being feasible in practice, given all the different possible map layouts, but just a hint of a tunnel bulge going off into the wall on each side would be pretty cool.

Mr. Epic

<!--quoteo(post=1767736:date=Apr 18 2010, 07:13 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Apr 18 2010, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767736"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I can't imagine a dynamic tunnel going all the way between the two points actually being feasible in practice, given all the different possible map layouts, but just a hint of a tunnel bulge going off into the wall on each side would be pretty cool.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Exactly, it isn't a real tunnel... but visually from the outside it could look legitimate enough. What I meant by the minimum distances was to ensure that there wouldn't be a case where an alien com could drop two tunnel entrances on opposite sides of a thin wall... in such a case it would be jarring to not see straight through them. If you made it such that the entrance and exit were a minimum distance, then the mechanism by which the virtual tunnel would work (and the method of ensuring you don't have to render through the portals) could make the system work and it would seem more believable.

Zek

<!--quoteo(post=1767738:date=Apr 18 2010, 07:42 PM:name=CyberMantis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CyberMantis @ Apr 18 2010, 07:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767738"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exactly, it isn't a real tunnel... but visually from the outside it could look legitimate enough. What I meant by the minimum distances was to ensure that there wouldn't be a case where an alien com could drop two tunnel entrances on opposite sides of a thin wall... in such a case it would be jarring to not see straight through them. If you made it such that the entrance and exit were a minimum distance, then the mechanism by which the virtual tunnel would work (and the method of ensuring you don't have to render through the portals) could make the system work and it would seem more believable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not talking about an actual hole you can see through, I highly doubt that will happen. I think they mean it would be like a delayed phase gate just with the appearance of a tunnel connecting between the two, like a bulge along the wall. Even that would be very hard to create with all the possible hurdles in map architecture and places it wouldn't look right.

radforChrist

Well, as long as it is programmed to avoid existing geometry, a dynamic tube connecting two points would be do-able.

Personally, I'd like to see it function as a PG, i.e., it automates the trip, but you see a FP view of flying through the tunnel, then "popping" out the other side.

All in all, I think this could be pretty amazing.

Mr. Epic

<!--quoteo(post=1767740:date=Apr 18 2010, 07:45 PM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Apr 18 2010, 07:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767740"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not talking about an actual hole you can see through, I highly doubt that will happen. I think they mean it would be like a delayed phase gate just with the appearance of a tunnel connecting between the two, like a bulge along the wall. Even that would be very hard to create with all the possible hurdles in map architecture and places it wouldn't look right.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I see, and I agree... and as was just said by the last poster you could have an animation of movement through the tunnel. Its an interesting idea, we'll see how it tuns out.

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1767742:date=Apr 18 2010, 04:02 PM:name=radforChrist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (radforChrist @ Apr 18 2010, 04:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767742"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well, as long as it is programmed to avoid existing geometry, a dynamic tube connecting two points would be do-able.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Cory's post leads me to believe this is what they plan. By "portals" I think he is referring to a system where the tunnel would actually be in a different part of the map than the actual level, but the portals would allow the entrance/exit of the tunnel to be connected with the entrance/exit in map. To the player it would be equivalent to going into a vent.

This is one of the nice thing about game worlds. We can do things like this that in the real world would require extra spatial dimensions. :D

SentrySteve

<!--quoteo(post=1767754:date=Apr 18 2010, 09:57 PM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Apr 18 2010, 09:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767754"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Cory's post leads me to believe this is what they plan. By "portals" I think he is referring to a system where the tunnel would actually be in a different part of the map than the actual level, but the portals would allow the entrance/exit of the tunnel to be connected with the entrance/exit in map. To the player it would be equivalent to going into a vent.

This is one of the nice thing about game worlds. We can do things like this that in the real world would require extra spatial dimensions. :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That would really suck because the commanders for both teams would be unable to see/assist their players as they would just disappear off the screen. This is assuming, of course, the commander doesn't see some awkward corner of the map that has canal tunnels connected to nothing.

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1767755:date=Apr 18 2010, 06:00 PM:name=SentrySteve)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SentrySteve @ Apr 18 2010, 06:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767755"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That would really suck because the commanders for both teams would be unable to see/assist their players as they would just disappear off the screen. This is assuming, of course, the commander doesn't see some awkward corner of the map that has canal tunnels connected to nothing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is the type of situation which makes it a difficult thing for them to implement. From a technical standpoint it's not too hard, but to make sure it works with all the other stuff in game (commander's view, hive sight, scent of fear, parasite) is more difficult.

culprit

The idea of a 3d tunnel that portals connect to is pretty cool. It would be difficult to address all the possible cases of portals being placed on ceilings, walls and floors and still have it make sense for the user. One way to address this would be to limit the canal openings or portals to only the floor. This way the 3d tunnel could be constructed with those types of openings in mind.

Having marines able to access these canals would be more questionable. It would certainly be thrilling, but even alien use of the PG was disabled for balance purposes. The other question that comes to mind is having more than 2 openings at one time. Would it be possible to create a 3d tunnel hub that could have multiple portals connecting various areas of the map together? This seems far-fected but still very intriguing. For balance once again, the max # of canal portals would be a prime consideration.

While the suggestion of an animated portal journey certainly simplifies the implementation, I think it really takes away from the unique idea of using actual portals.

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1767765:date=Apr 18 2010, 07:17 PM:name=culprit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (culprit @ Apr 18 2010, 07:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767765"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The idea of a 3d tunnel that portals connect to is pretty cool. It would be difficult to address all the possible cases of portals being placed on ceilings, walls and floors and still have it make sense for the user. One way to address this would be to limit the canal openings or portals to only the floor. This way the 3d tunnel could be constructed with those types of openings in mind.

Having marines able to access these canals would be more questionable. It would certainly be thrilling, but even alien use of the PG was disabled for balance purposes. The other question that comes to mind is having more than 2 openings at one time. Would it be possible to create a 3d tunnel hub that could have multiple portals connecting various areas of the map together? This seems far-fected but still very intriguing. For balance once again, the max # of canal portals would be a prime consideration.

While the suggestion of an animated portal journey certainly simplifies the implementation, I think it really takes away from the unique idea of using actual portals.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with everything you have said. I don't think that the portals really need to be limited to the floor, but preventing marines from entering (mouth of tunnel shutting or something) would be good.

Having tunnels actually connect with other tunnels to create intersecting paths would be awesome. I definitely think this would be the way to go, and though it would take a little bit more than a more simple point to point implementation, I think this would definitely still be technically possible.

Another cool thing about this is that because the paths would conceptually be implemented as stepping into a different dimension, you could shorten or lengthen the paths as you pleased. :)

FocusedWolf

<!--quoteo(post=1766493:date=Apr 13 2010, 02:16 AM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Apr 13 2010, 02:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1766493"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not dynamically creating new pathways. It would utilize a portal system, basically placing an alien infestation tunnel model in between the 2 portal ends. Perfectly doable, though still quite a bit of work to do properly, so it may or may not make it in the first release.

--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

That is a really cool idea. I guess the purpose is instead of making the aliens lightning fast to make up for their lack of PG's, that we let them tunnel through the map? :P

Are these "portal ends" fixed?

Crazyperson4200

I don't know how difficult it would be to implement, but having some kind of layer to let the game know where the tunnels need to/can burrow under/through without causing a tunnel to clip through hallways on lower/upper levels or setting a lowest usable hallway point so the tunnels teleport to a space down underneath and then teleport back up once you run a certain length depending on how far apart the tunnels are would seem to be an "easier concept" idea, but again I haven't worked with mapping tools or the engine itself to know how this would play out in reality, and I'm sure the Dev's are still working on an idea to perfect it if they don't scrap the idea.

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1767770:date=Apr 18 2010, 08:01 PM:name=Crazyperson4200)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Crazyperson4200 @ Apr 18 2010, 08:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767770"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't know how difficult it would be to implement, but having some kind of layer to let the game know where the tunnels need to/can burrow under/through without causing a tunnel to clip through hallways on lower/upper levels or setting a lowest usable hallway point so the tunnels teleport to a space down underneath and then teleport back up once you run a certain length depending on how far apart the tunnels are would seem to be an "easier concept" idea, but again I haven't worked with mapping tools or the engine itself to know how this would play out in reality, and I'm sure the Dev's are still working on an idea to perfect it if they don't scrap the idea.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The second one I believe is essentially what they are planning. To the users it will look like the tunnel is part of the map geometry (they will never realize that they teleport), but in reality the tunnel's geometry will be separate from the actual map geometry.

radforChrist

The beauty of this is how Kharaa can utilize strategy with this. In the same way PG's only teleported marines in NS1 (well, not ALWAYS like that, onos using a PG into MS was great!), alien only adds some dimension. But personally I'd love to see marines able to use these tunnels as well. imgaine a Kharaa placed the tunnel entrance on the ceiling of a tall room. The marine pops through, takes fall damage, and is now unable to get back through. There's benefits either way.

Regardless of how/when this is implemented, GJ devs on thinking up these type enhancements.

tim

Drown

<!--quoteo(post=1767833:date=Apr 19 2010, 10:33 AM:name=radforChrist)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (radforChrist @ Apr 19 2010, 10:33 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767833"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->But personally I'd love to see marines able to use these tunnels as well. imgaine a Kharaa placed the tunnel entrance on the ceiling of a tall room. The marine pops through, takes fall damage, and is now unable to get back through. There's benefits either way.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Oh man this makes me laugh... love the idea. Although to make it differ from the phase gates of old add a small processing time after use... which stands in for the time it takes to crawl through the infestation tunnel. In any case I just hope you can throw grenades through them this time ;)

Bacillus

I think the canals are my favourite addition at this point. There are probably things that turn out to be even more interesting, but in NS1 context and the information we've got right now, the canals feel already pretty interesting and strategical. Hopefully the placement system is flexible. I can already see aliens finding hard to reach positions for the canals and marines adapthing with mines, welders, boosting and whatever possible to fight the multiple direction aggression.

Dank McShwagger

So this thread is full of win imo... it revelas quite a bit of unreleased info, most of it specualation but for the most part it all seems self explanatory... plus the reveal of canals.

I already purchased my copy of the game long ago but if i hadnt i would be doin so right now.

What i gathered from the previous posts is that they plan on making a seperate mapping for the canals which anyone who enters gets teleported into to simulate going underground.

I see people are addressing the issue of the commanders not being able to aid marines in the canals because the virtual tunnel isnt located dynamically on the map... which i think is a good thing. the canals arnt really meant for marines but if they want to be so brave as to enter one they will not be supported by their commander.

... so if the biggest obstacle is getting these canal tunnels dynamically placed for the commanders to be able to view then i say make the tunnels and anything inside of them completly invisible to the commanders... ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!

ideas like this are what is going to make this game epic... PLEASE UWE PLEASE MAKE CANALS A REALITY IN THE INITIAL RELEASE PLEAAAAAAAAAASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!

FocusedWolf

<!--quoteo(post=1767772:date=Apr 19 2010, 12:05 AM:name=Psyke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Psyke @ Apr 19 2010, 12:05 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1767772"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The second one I believe is essentially what they are planning. To the users it will look like the tunnel is part of the map geometry (they will never realize that they teleport), but in reality the tunnel's geometry will be separate from the actual map geometry.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Wait so is it like... the mapper adds these portals around the map... like exits to a vent... And then when a person enters, they have a choice of selecting the destination... and depending on how far away that is from your current location = how far you must walk through a really long tunnel under the map?

This is for one thing a cool idea because then a mapper doesn't need to go insane making really intricate ventilation systems. What was that one map with the water filled one that ran under the map and connected to one of the hives... and also had that extensive vent system in the ceiling outside the mess hall that led to a gorge-hideout?? :P

remi

It's not a vent replacement as I understand it. It's a canal that the alien commander(?) would be able to dynamically place on the map to help in the aliens' assault.

The rest of it is sort of the right idea... Except it wouldn't be go into it, select a destination, and walk in an unrelated/unconnected tunnel. From the player's perspective it would like like they walk directly into the tunnel, walk to the end, and walk out of the other side of it. The actual implementation would be that the geometry would be in a separate part of the world with portals (thing how the game Portal works) connecting the tunnel with the world.

Dank McShwagger

<!--quoteo(post=1765120:date=Apr 10 2010, 12:34 AM:name=TrueVeritas)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TrueVeritas @ Apr 10 2010, 12:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1765120"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>Drifter:</b>
Armor: 25
Health: 100
Cost: 1
Movespeed: 4
Drifter Flare Tech cost: 10
Drifter Flare Tech time: 25
Drifter Flare Blind time: 10

Yeah, no idea.

More to come, as well as cleaning this up eventually.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

sounds like a possible scout-bot or support-bot controlled by the commander

Dalin Seivewright

IMO, having actual map geometry for these canals would be a horribly out dated approach. This sort of stuff was required in games like Quake and UT for that sort of "omg I'm going through some sort of warp tunnel" feel, but NS2 is a new engine and shouldn't be constricted to such strategies. I think that these cannals should either exist like those in Portal (with a re-tunnel delay after usage for balancing) or stepping into a canal should make the player disapear with some special effect, at which point, a cinematic built in the cinematic editor is played on the players screen. When it is over (ie. when the cinematic has the screen going through a teleporter on the other side) the players view of the game world is restored, along with the players own visability, and is popped out at the end point.

This means that no geometry should be needed (unless I'm mistaken at how the cinematics editor works), and mappers wouldn't be required to make their own cinematic for their map (but would probably have the option of creating one anyways).

Kisle

Can marines use this tunnel 2?

Slycaster

<!--quoteo(post=1768115:date=Apr 21 2010, 04:03 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Apr 21 2010, 04:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768115"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->IMO, having actual map geometry for these canals would be a horribly out dated approach. This sort of stuff was required in games like Quake and UT for that sort of "omg I'm going through some sort of warp tunnel" feel, but NS2 is a new engine and shouldn't be constricted to such strategies. I think that these cannals should either exist like those in Portal (with a re-tunnel delay after usage for balancing) or stepping into a canal should make the player disapear with some special effect, at which point, a cinematic built in the cinematic editor is played on the players screen. When it is over (ie. when the cinematic has the screen going through a teleporter on the other side) the players view of the game world is restored, along with the players own visability, and is popped out at the end point.

This means that no geometry should be needed (unless I'm mistaken at how the cinematics editor works), and mappers wouldn't be required to make their own cinematic for their map (but would probably have the option of creating one anyways).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I disagree with this post entirely. It's archaic to have a system where you have a warp tunnel feel, because it doesnt create a sense of space and time that the player themselves are passing through. It's like a loading screen, which breaks immersion.

Going through a portal and navigating a 5 second detailed model of an underground biological canal would be far more immersive, make more sense, and be a great way to make canal use seem as "real" as it can be.

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1768154:date=Apr 21 2010, 08:16 AM:name=Cyanide)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cyanide @ Apr 21 2010, 08:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768154"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I disagree with this post entirely. It's archaic to have a system where you have a warp tunnel feel, because it doesnt create a sense of space and time that the player themselves are passing through. It's like a loading screen, which breaks immersion.

Going through a portal and navigating a 5 second detailed model of an underground biological canal would be far more immersive, make more sense, and be a great way to make canal use seem as "real" as it can be.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with this post entirely.

Anything that takes control away from the player for a set time breaks immersion.

culprit

The cinematic portal effect certainly seems like a more simple solution, but I do not think it is the best way to implement the canals. A pre-scripted cinematic basically takes you out of the game.

Having an actual space in between portals would be much more interesting. It would allow teammates to group together in anticipation of a concerted attack. It could even be used like a hide-away of null-space with just one portal opening. When the other portal is created, then players inside the canal could come bursting out. To balance this it could be lethal to players to remain in the canal space when both openings are destroyed. That way marines could destroy a forward ambush opening while aliens players escape to safety. If alien players remained in the canal while the last opening was destroyed, they would perish. This would add a risk-factor to using the canals without being careful to guard at least one connected portal.

Flayra

Oops, not sure how Balance.lua made it in there. Leave it to you guys to find it! :)

I probably shouldn't have to say this but...everything you see in there is subject to change. We're hoping to include everything in there eventually, but some of those take a lot of resources (canals, exosuits, etc.) so we're not sure what will make it in there for v1.0, what will come later and what will be cut. We'll do our best though!

Dalin Seivewright

I think having a whole bunch of aliens in "null space" away from the actual game world for more than a few seconds would break immersion far more than a cinematic file being played. My thoughts of the cinematic would be that the player would still be able to look around (they wouldn't have their weapons, unless they were aliens, as their weapons are a part of their bodies) but, yes the general cinematic would be pre-scripted, although I don't think its entirely not impossible to make several pre-determined paths in the cinematic an have the players camera take one of them.

If the aliens want to mount a "canal" rush, they can do so on the entrance side at their base, which would be just as effective as if they waited in a "null space" part of the map. Also, there are likely to be more than one canal system running in a map at a given time, so will mappers be required to make in upwards of 4-5 "null" spaces?

Then again, Cinematic files may have the ability for players to walk around in them, but I doubt it.

<!--QuoteBegin-"Charrrrrrlieeeee"+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ("Charrrrrrlieeeee")</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I probably shouldn't have to say this but...everything you see in there is subject to change.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We know, but its sure fun to discuss implementation.

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1768169:date=Apr 21 2010, 10:06 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Apr 21 2010, 10:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768169"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think having a whole bunch of aliens in "null space" away from the actual game world for more than a few seconds would break immersion far more than a cinematic file being played. My thoughts of the cinematic would be that the player would still be able to look around (they wouldn't have their weapons, unless they were aliens, as their weapons are a part of their bodies) but, yes the general cinematic would be pre-scripted, although I don't think its entirely not impossible to make several pre-determined paths in the cinematic an have the players camera take one of them.

If the aliens want to mount a "canal" rush, they can do so on the entrance side at their base, which would be just as effective as if they waited in a "null space" part of the map. Also, there are likely to be more than one canal system running in a map at a given time, so will mappers be required to make in upwards of 4-5 "null" spaces?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not getting it. The null space would not be separate from the map from the perspective of the players. This is merely an implementation detail. From the player's perspective it would look just like a vent. You would go into it, be able to turn around, look out at stuff, walk through it, see out the other side, and jump out.

<!--quoteo(post=1768165:date=Apr 21 2010, 09:44 AM:name=culprit)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (culprit @ Apr 21 2010, 09:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768165"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Having an actual space in between portals would be much more interesting. It would allow teammates to group together in anticipation of a concerted attack. It could even be used like a hide-away of null-space with just one portal opening. When the other portal is created, then players inside the canal could come bursting out. To balance this it could be lethal to players to remain in the canal space when both openings are destroyed. That way marines could destroy a forward ambush opening while aliens players escape to safety. If alien players remained in the canal while the last opening was destroyed, they would perish. This would add a risk-factor to using the canals without being careful to guard at least one connected portal.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<strike>I don't know if you would actually need to kill players who are still in the canal. It would probably be just as effective to have the canal persist, but just have rubble in front of where the exit used to be. Alien players would have to waste a lot of time running back to the entrance this way.</strike>
I'm dumb and misread your post... apparently we agree!

If both sides got destroyed it could either instantly kill the players inside, or have them suffocate... My vote is for the latter. :)

remi

<!--quoteo(post=1768167:date=Apr 21 2010, 09:56 AM:name=Flayra)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Flayra @ Apr 21 2010, 09:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768167"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oops, not sure how Balance.lua made it in there. Leave it to you guys to find it! :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was quite happy about it. Gave me a little bit of interesting reading when I first started exploring the code. :)

I have no idea what hydra is though...
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->kHydraRange = 20.0
kHydraROF = 1.0<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Anyone else know?