Merging levels

BrawBraw Join Date: 2008-03-21 Member: 63920Members, Constellation
Like many of you (I assume) I've made several small parts of my map in separate files. Mainly due to performance issues but also because I simply didn't have the overview planned when I initially started out.

Anyways, there comes a time when you would want to start merging these parts. So the question becomes, what's the best method to do this?

I do as follows:
- Open the least complex level of the two I want to merge
- Deactivate filter props, lights & entities
- Select all (ctrl+a) and copy
- Open the other part
- Turn texture lock off
- Paste in my copied part
- Turn texture lock on
- Move the copied part into position
- I later copy over all of the entities and props

Now, this fixed the offset texture problem that happens when you got texture lock on all the time, but the copied part is still not aligned to the grid, and I can't get it to align even with the move origin cycle tool (though this should be possible since I did not copy any of the entities or props). Anyone got a solution to this?

Comments

  • BrawBraw Join Date: 2008-03-21 Member: 63920Members, Constellation
    Noes, I'm an idiot :P Tried to move the map around with the move origin cycle tool inside the original level-file (without copying it inside another level). Turns out it gets skewed away from the grid there too, had a couple of misaligned lines... Gonna be a whole lot of work to go through all the different parts and align every single line :(
  • SgtBarlowSgtBarlow Level Designer Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22749Members, NS2 Developer
    Click Tools > Settings
    In the Keybindings tab open the "Edit" tree, find "Move Origin Cycle" and bind it to a key like "O".
    Select your objects and select the Move tool then hit the the "O" key twice and then move your stuff.
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    Any news on merging levels?

    I'm building everything in one file from now on, but I had to merge one part I built earlier.
    My experience so far, maybe it helps someone:

    I had trouble to paste stuff, when I opened both maps in one editor after each other.
    It worked fine, when I started the editor twice to open each map.
    Didn't try to switch texture lock during the process, so I can't tell about that. Does this also work, when you select everything (props, lights)??

    I copied over everything in one step. In order to avoid decimal coordinates I created a huge retangle, which extended the actual selection in every direction except height (I guess you have to create a huge box, if you are going to move your area in all directions).
    After adding that huge face to your selection you can move everything safely without screwing up the coordinates.
    My texture-alignment went off though, but maybe the texture lock switch can solve this.
  • BrawBraw Join Date: 2008-03-21 Member: 63920Members, Constellation
    edited June 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1773163:date=Jun 3 2010, 08:31 AM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ Jun 3 2010, 08:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773163"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Any news on merging levels?

    I'm building everything in one file from now on, but I had to merge one part I built earlier.
    My experience so far, maybe it helps someone:

    I had trouble to paste stuff, when I opened both maps in one editor after each other.
    It worked fine, when I started the editor twice to open each map.
    Didn't try to switch texture lock during the process, so I can't tell about that. Does this also work, when you select everything (props, lights)??

    I copied over everything in one step. In order to avoid decimal coordinates I created a huge retangle, which extended the actual selection in every direction except height (I guess you have to create a huge box, if you are going to move your area in all directions).
    After adding that huge face to your selection you can move everything safely without screwing up the coordinates.
    My texture-alignment went off though, but maybe the texture lock switch can solve this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The "huge-box"-technique was pretty smart, hadn't thought of that.

    Anyway, I've found out that the texture-lock switch I was talking about in the top does not matter. Just have texture-lock on at all times. What you would want to do is copy the original level, then open the one where you would like to paste it. Paste it (the faces should be invisible to you until you move it, at least they are for me) and move the selection a little in one direction (move it while dragging only one of the axis-arrows). Now, if the textures look good, you can move the whole thing as you want, they should stay aligned from now on.

    If they look misaligned after you moved the selection a little in one direction, then you delete it and try again (paste & move that is) until you got it.

    I have no idea why it behaves like this so don't even ask, haha.

    BTW: this should work even if you copy props, lights etc. along with the faces.



    edit: the thing about moving it in one direction, and then only a little bit is not required to make this work. You can move it in multiple directions at once, and far away, but by moving it in only a little one direction increases your chances (AFAIK). And don't think that when I say "move it in one direction a little" the textures get misaligned but it's not very noticeable because you didn't move it much, that's not how it should work.
  • Lemming JesusLemming Jesus Join Date: 2010-04-13 Member: 71385Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1768156:date=Apr 21 2010, 10:25 AM:name=Braw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Braw @ Apr 21 2010, 10:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Like many of you (I assume) I've made several small parts of my map in separate files. Mainly due to performance issues but also because I simply didn't have the overview planned when I initially started out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You assume wrong. Why would we do something that insane?


    <!--quoteo(post=1768156:date=Apr 21 2010, 10:25 AM:name=Braw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Braw @ Apr 21 2010, 10:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1768156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Anyways, there comes a time when you would want to start merging these parts. So the question becomes, what's the best method to do this?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The best method is to start over and use layers. Seriously. You're only making it hard for yourself.
  • BrawBraw Join Date: 2008-03-21 Member: 63920Members, Constellation
    edited June 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1773215:date=Jun 3 2010, 09:52 PM:name=Lemming Jesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lemming Jesus @ Jun 3 2010, 09:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773215"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You assume wrong. Why would we do something that insane?



    The best method is to start over and use layers. Seriously. You're only making it hard for yourself.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You are joking me right, right? In the quote I said why I have done it this way (and many others I'm sure).
    It's not hard to merge levels, say it takes me 1 minute to merge two levels which both have taken me 100 hours of work, but you mean I should just start over instead? The hell is wrong with you? Get out of this thread please, troll.
  • SgtBarlowSgtBarlow Level Designer Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22749Members, NS2 Developer
    Well Lemming Jesus, that makes me insane too.

    Currenty I have postponed my map because the layers just do not do anything for you.
    There is no performace gain when stuff is hidden.
    Either culling isnt working or still isnt implemented and copy paste is still too big of an issue for me to be willing further make sections in seperate files to merge when its all eventually fixed, id rather wait until its fixed.

    The editor needs a max draw distance slider.
  • Dalin SeivewrightDalin Seivewright 0x0000221E Join Date: 2007-10-20 Member: 62685Members, Constellation
    I agree with Lemming here. Having more than one file for a single map is kind of a bad practice, IMO, and sure it may be helping you get work done until the Editor has some much needed features implemented, but you really are creating more work than is needed. I have only minimal performance issues with somewhat large maps and most of the time hiding parts of the map I'm not working with does help with some of the performance issues (lights are a pretty big killer).

    Your reaction to his comment seems a bit much though. Since you sound like you don't want to restart your map thats fine, but layers do work in many cases. And how do you know that restarting your map now that you have more a clear layout won't benefit you in the long run? I don't know how large these maps are, but consider maybe your map might be getting too big?
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1773255:date=Jun 4 2010, 10:24 AM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Jun 4 2010, 10:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773255"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The editor needs a max draw distance slider.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    QFE

    Hiding lights in layers helps a bit, but there isn't much performance gain by hiding everything in layers at least from my experience.
    Also it kinda seems that Spark always gets stuck on the lowest performance level despite re-hiding things or switching back to unlit mode.

    I had a seperate map file aswell, but I merged it and I'm using only one file from now on mainly because the merging is even more annoying than the performance issues.

    @Dalin: Have you seen screenshots of Barlow's map? Maybe you should consider that your map might be too low on details (which is fine, if you wanna check the layout first).
    That seems more likely to me at least, also considering that the two demo-maps of the engine test lag like hell in spark and they aren't huge at all.
  • SgtBarlowSgtBarlow Level Designer Join Date: 2003-11-13 Member: 22749Members, NS2 Developer
    What beats me is if I look at the enterie map where everything is rendered:
    In editor its unbareably choppy.
    In game its jerky.
    In the Cinematic Editor its almost smooth as paste.

    So I am getting 3 large differences in performance between all 3 apps as apposed to much smaller ones.
  • BrawBraw Join Date: 2008-03-21 Member: 63920Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1773258:date=Jun 4 2010, 09:52 AM:name=Dalin Seivewright)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dalin Seivewright @ Jun 4 2010, 09:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773258"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree with Lemming here. Having more than one file for a single map is kind of a bad practice, IMO, and sure it may be helping you get work done until the Editor has some much needed features implemented, but you really are creating more work than is needed. I have only minimal performance issues with somewhat large maps and most of the time hiding parts of the map I'm not working with does help with some of the performance issues (lights are a pretty big killer).

    Your reaction to his comment seems a bit much though. Since you sound like you don't want to restart your map thats fine, but layers do work in many cases. And how do you know that restarting your map now that you have more a clear layout won't benefit you in the long run? I don't know how large these maps are, but consider maybe your map might be getting too big?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sorry if my comment was offensive, but I don't see how he could be serious about what he said. Merging two levels take 1 minute, what's the big deal? Why should I spent 100 hours of work when I could simply spend 1 minute, makes no sense at all to me. You could argue that the result would be better, since I've gotten better at mapping and all since I've started out, but if you think that way you would start all over everytime you finished something up? Better just make a new map instead of starting over.

    But I've already merged all my levels anyways, and it turned out fine (made the topic quite a long while ago).
  • Lemming JesusLemming Jesus Join Date: 2010-04-13 Member: 71385Members
    edited June 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1773255:date=Jun 4 2010, 02:24 AM:name=SgtBarlow)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SgtBarlow @ Jun 4 2010, 02:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773255"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There is no performace gain when stuff is hidden.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Uh, what? Layers are the only way I can edit my map without it lagging. There's a huge performance gain. Are you sure you're using layers properly?


    <!--quoteo(post=1773263:date=Jun 4 2010, 05:54 AM:name=Braw)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Braw @ Jun 4 2010, 05:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773263"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry if my comment was offensive, but I don't see how he could be serious about what he said. Merging two levels take 1 minute, what's the big deal? Why should I spent 100 hours of work when I could simply spend 1 minute, makes no sense at all to me. You could argue that the result would be better, since I've gotten better at mapping and all since I've started out, but if you think that way you would start all over everytime you finished something up? Better just make a new map instead of starting over.

    But I've already merged all my levels anyways, and it turned out fine (made the topic quite a long while ago).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If it is so easy and fine, why was this topic even made?
  • BrawBraw Join Date: 2008-03-21 Member: 63920Members, Constellation
    edited June 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1773319:date=Jun 4 2010, 09:45 PM:name=Lemming Jesus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lemming Jesus @ Jun 4 2010, 09:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1773319"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If it is so easy and fine, why was this topic even made?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This topic was made because at the time I had problems with the faces not getting aligned to the grid (as stated in the original post), however thanks to SgtBarlow's answer this is no longer a problem. So it's easy and fine now :) Let's leave it at that, shall we?

    Thank you btw, Barlow, thought I'd posted a thank-you-post already, but apparently I hadn't!
  • RazorRazor Join Date: 2010-02-23 Member: 70695Members
    You all may have noticed by now but I just wanted to add that you can get performance gains in full screen view( alt + w) and by facing away from the majority of the map in addition to hiding out layers.

    I also consider having a level split into multiple files bad practice but I may give it a try after all.
  • LoeyLoey Join Date: 2009-10-31 Member: 69187Members
    i tend to make rooms and corridors in seperate files because i find it easier to work with (less lines in the xyz view) and i usually day dream up a sweet room or hallway then jump on spark and make it. once i have enough hallways and rooms ill start to think of a layout and put them all together like lego
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