Nerve gas grenades
JAmazon
Join Date: 2009-02-21 Member: 66503Members
Join Date: 2009-02-21 Member: 66503Members
<div class="IPBDescription">slight concern</div>When I read that nerve gas grenades were planned for the marines on the new update I was a little ambivalent. This is not a complaint just some food for thought concerning a potential nerve gas mechanic for the rines.
- Will it cause player impairment? I hope not, things like slow movement or blurry vision have no place in a game like this and would only serve as an annoyance.
- Will it basically be marine spores? Part of what makes NS so neat is the extreme differences in the two teams. I feel like giving the marines a spore-esque area denial weapon is a step towards homogeneity.
Nothing to get worked up about, just some thoughts.
- Will it cause player impairment? I hope not, things like slow movement or blurry vision have no place in a game like this and would only serve as an annoyance.
- Will it basically be marine spores? Part of what makes NS so neat is the extreme differences in the two teams. I feel like giving the marines a spore-esque area denial weapon is a step towards homogeneity.
Nothing to get worked up about, just some thoughts.
Comments
1. Development time hasn't been wasted creating a single item for a single purpose.
2. And more important, variety/change, not a direct NS1 clone anymore(thank gosh).
*****
I'm pretty sure if you choose to take Nerve Gas Grenades(NGGs), you won't be able to take High Explosive Grenades(HEGs).
Loadout selection seems to be actually important now as a Marine, and not just drop Shotguns Com and win the map(HMGs are just icing).
Collective sigh from the marines in NS1 when the onos appeared and all 4 of its abilities can hinder marines' movements.
Collective sigh from the marines in NS1 when the onos appeared and all 4 of its abilities can hinder marines' movements.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hindering alien movement would be awful. Fades will die constantly. The only fair way to block a fade was (and should still be) physically standing in front of its path (at which point the marine better have a shotgun or he's toast anyway)
Conversely for the marines, hindering movement is much more acceptable since they usually travel together and rely on ranged weaponry. I agree with the Onos being a bit too good at freezing marines but at least he's supposed to be one of the closest things aliens have to a game-ender. (not to mention he had to get fairly close to stomp/devour/etc)
So I really doubt marines will be able to hinder the alien's movement. What I am concerned about is nerve gas being too good against skulks who after getting hit with a little bit could right away be weakened to the point where they had to retreat instead of even considering engaging. This would allow marines to scare away skulks without even having to shoot at them...
Since we kind of know now the Flametrhower will be volumetric when used in vents, NGGs will do the same thing. Maybe the NGGs will only really be most effective in Vents, where the gas packs together tightly and spreads out.
Agree. Don't see anything wrong with it. I'd be disappointed if NS2 had the exact same weapons as the original.
But a damage style area of effect would be what they are looking for I imagine. Certain upper rafters and vents where lerks can normally just run from grenades and not take much damage only to come back and be annoying after a couple seconds. This would make a better long lasting counter if the lerk had to wait for the damage area to disappear. But still be able to fly through the nerve gas to throw down its own gas taking damage but returning to heal.
You can always alter how fast it spreads. How fast it releases from the canister. How much damage it does. How large the area it covers.
If marines are going to have spore than aliens damn well better have grenade launchers or turret factories. and yes im being sarcastic.
Not this topic again...
the GaG?
But I like the idea of a tactic support grenade, aslong as it does not get op. Could be a good thing for some marines to drop in marine base when the onos attack (yes if there is ff the rines would take damage to, but usually you die fast with onos anyway, and heavy armor should nullify the gas dmg), just to make it easyer to bring them down.
Or for those moments you know there is a gorge in the vent building stuff and shooting on your cc (I assume the grenade would also make everything that is exposed to it uncloak).
- Will it basically be marine spores? Part of what makes NS so neat is the extreme differences in the two teams. I feel like giving the marines a spore-esque area denial weapon is a step towards homogeneity.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First you rule out basicly anything that mostly doesn't involve damage because "it has not place in a game like this" (whatever that means)
And next you say if it just does damage it would be lame...
o_O
I think to figure out what the nerve gas grenades should do we should first need to know how they are implemented. Can they be restocked? Is it a single weapon or an upgrade for the full team? Ammo count? Cost? Research time? Requirements for the tech? ect.
After that you can start thinking what they should do...
Personaly i would love a small area denial weapon no matter how it's done either trough damage or trough other effects (or maybe even both). Maybe make it have different effects depending on the lifeform, that way you could have movement imparing effects on skulks and something different on fades to prevent it from beeing overpowered against higher liferforms.
The best way to get what I'm saying is that <u>any impairment effect should grant a small(ish) statistical advantage, not an overt one</u>. That is to say that over an infinite number of trials the impaired player should have a decreased success rate, but not guaranteed loss from the status effect. An example of an overt advantage would be Onos' stomp which completely nullifies attack and movement. A statistical advantage is something like the screen flash from UT2004's link gun.
If marines are going to have spore than aliens damn well better have grenade launchers or turret factories. and yes im being sarcastic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, considering the descriptions of alien buildings we've been given, I'd say this isn't out of the question. So much for your sarcasm!
Maybe small damage over time and screen distortion? Not a drastic distortion, just enough that the alien won't make out many details (like if a marine is looking/aiming at him) but still able to move around without running against walls all the time. That way it could be used to scare of vent lurkers and prevent them from scouting.
Depending on how alien abilities work it maybe it could disable certain abilities, mainly ranged ones, like spikes/bilebomb (is there even a bilebomb?).
In the end it should be something that gives a <b>temporary</b> solution for the marine in the field for those annoying moments when some lifeform sits in an unreachable vent harrasing the marines. Nothing that would kill the alien but rather prevent it from harrasing for a limited time. Assuming those grenades can't be restocked.. if they can be restocked even if it's just at an armory than it needs to do something else because it could be exploited too easily.
Hopefully this means that Alien +10% Whip Attack Damage is nullified for a short duration while in the Nerve Gas cloud.
Think of all possible ways it could block the Kharaa's special abilities, then you probably know what the Nerve Gas does.
I would hope they thought of this increased enhancement of complexity, if not, they are now.
or a gas that inhibits the skulks ability to cling to walls, fire the gas into a room and watch the skulks drop from the ceiling.
I like this idea kinda
or a gas that inhibits the skulks ability to cling to walls, fire the gas into a room and watch the skulks drop from the ceiling.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
or both, this idea is very creative, something that is similar to or elaborates on this concept would be very interesting :D
<b>or a gas that inhibits the skulks ability to cling to walls, fire the gas into a room and watch the skulks drop from the ceiling.</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<b>Hence, <u>Nerve</u> Gas Grenades.</b>
Like I said, start thinking of ideas what the Nerve Gas could affect, and you just thought of one example. Good job.
*****
Nitrous oxide grenades could be funny for the Gorge Louging mode that will eventually happen(you know it will).
*****
Another one, Gorge can't use his Cowar(Adrenaline Shield) Ability, since it loses "focus" concentrating(lore wise).
-OR-
The Gorge's Adrenaline depletes much faster inside Nerv Gas. =)
But as marines arent really equipped to fight aliens as much as other marines (its what they usually do), would it not make sense if the grenade was one lethal to humans? And that it on aliens had another effect such as low damage, removing cloak, disabling other alien abilities and as its gas, obstruct their (and marines) vision.
And carefull about adrenaline drain, imagine it draining a fades adren so he can't blink anymore. That would be kinda OP....
At least if blink still works like that, because afaik they changed abilities to be on a cooldown and made adrenaline usefull for something else.
Like i said: without knowing more about the games mechanics and abilities it's kinda hard to come up with a balanced and working idea for what the nerve gas grenades do.
I understand that it's logical to have gas grenades if you get ambushed all the time, but at the same time these grenades shouldn't feel like the spore clouds by lerks.
I'm somehow tired of these topics, we have discussed nearly everything before :P
how about a gas could that obscures the alien commanders view for a short time?
or perhaps it interferes with the aliens synapse network thus disabling any 'team' based skills for short while, or while in the area of effect.
example; aliens in the area of effect can no longer see parasite tagged enemies, and team msg's, such as "your hive is under attack" are disabled until they leave the area
each individual still retains her offensive capabilities, but is unable to co-ordinate attacks with as much accuracy.
could make for interesting tactics before a marine offensive is launched...
For example, you could flood a hive room with nerve gas, then start shooting the hive down without the aliens getting any kind of verbal or visual warning from the game.
Perhaps it could disable/reduce the effectiveness of alien structures temporarily while it is active. Throw a nerve gas grenade into a room full of (NS2 equivalent) OC's, and they become inactive or weakened.