Dual Welders

2

Comments

  • DrownDrown Underwater Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10392Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1775088:date=Jun 16 2010, 01:31 PM:name=antarez)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (antarez @ Jun 16 2010, 01:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775088"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->i wonder what it will look like to reload a weapon with only one hand X) - while the other one is firing<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Have to say, I didn't think of that. Guess dual shotguns with continuous fire is out of the question now...
  • Racer1Racer1 Join Date: 2002-11-22 Member: 9615Members
    edited June 2010
    Why not make both guns be bound to different weapon slots (just like the axe, pistol, etc). They could still both be shown in-game, but you would have to switch between them to use them.

    Does the heavy/mech have additional arms attached to reload the weapons? If not, I don't see how you would dual wield shotguns or GLs and also reload them -- unless you had to put away your second weapon to reload, which would be time consuming and annoying.

    However, dual axes and welders would be fun.
  • Squeal_Like_A_PigSqueal_Like_A_Pig Janitor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 66Members, Super Administrators, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Developer, Reinforced - Supporter, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Developer
    <!--quoteo(post=1775093:date=Jun 16 2010, 06:05 PM:name=Racer1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racer1 @ Jun 16 2010, 06:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does the heavy/mech have additional arms attached to reload the weapons? If not, I don't see how you would dual wield shotguns or GLs and also reload them -- unless you had to put away your second weapon to reload, which would be time consuming and annoying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The weapons that the heavy has won't need to be reloaded. There will be other features used, such as overheating on the minigun, requiring a cool down period.

    Anyway, I would say it's really not worth talking that much about at this point, as the NS1 heavy is not the best basis for discussion pertaining to the NS2 heavy.

    --Cory
  • culpritculprit Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33527Members, Constellation
    These words of Cory's really send my mind reeling with some interesting possibilities about what this new heavy/exo suit is going to be. It is starting to sound like the exo will be a whole new tier of marine tech unlike NS1's heavy or JP. Every little bit of info just finds me more intrigued and excited to know more.
  • JAmazonJAmazon Join Date: 2009-02-21 Member: 66503Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1775116:date=Jun 16 2010, 11:39 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jun 16 2010, 11:39 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775116"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The weapons that the heavy has won't need to be reloaded. There will be other features used, such as overheating on the minigun, requiring a cool down period.

    Anyway, I would say it's really not worth talking that much about at this point, as the NS1 heavy is not the best basis for discussion pertaining to the NS2 heavy.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Very nice! :D

    I would argue against the overheat mechanism simply because I don't like it :P Maybe we could just make it so that the turning speed is decreased.
  • JAmazonJAmazon Join Date: 2009-02-21 Member: 66503Members
    edited June 2010
    BALLS! double post.
  • Dank McShwaggerDank McShwagger Join Date: 2009-06-10 Member: 67784Members
    i think they mentioned that the heavy would have a stationary/lock down position
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1775063:date=Jun 16 2010, 09:43 AM:name=Drown)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drown @ Jun 16 2010, 09:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775063"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think it would be good to have the option to assign a single key to both weapons, but any reasonable person will realize the advantage in having separate fire buttons.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Percentage of situations in which you want to spread less fire over a longer period of time: 0%
    Percentage of situations in which you want to unload ASAP until whatever you're looking at dies: 100%

    Having an option may be fine (albeit useless), but let's be clear about this now, there is no advantage to independently firing two weapons in a fast-paced FPS like NS, unless of course, you enjoy having to reload every five seconds because one weapon is emptying at a different rate than the other.
  • spellman23spellman23 NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1775134:date=Jun 16 2010, 09:09 PM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jun 16 2010, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Percentage of situations in which you want to spread less fire over a longer period of time: 0%
    Percentage of situations in which you want to unload ASAP until whatever you're looking at dies: 100%

    Having an option may be fine (albeit useless), but let's be clear about this now, there is no advantage to independently firing two weapons in a fast-paced FPS like NS, unless of course, you enjoy having to reload every five seconds because one weapon is emptying at a different rate than the other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Overheating problems. Steady stream of doom on a building and don't want to be screwed if something else shows up.

    Halo 2 and 3 showed, especially with different weapons on different hands, where you only want to be firing one at a time.


    I'm guessing dual wielding with have disadvantages. Primarily removal of a alt-fire, and maybe inability to throw grenades. There was also talk about Heavies "Deploying" to gain accuracy at the cost of mobility.
  • steppin'razorsteppin'razor Join Date: 2008-09-18 Member: 65033Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1775134:date=Jun 17 2010, 02:09 PM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jun 17 2010, 02:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Percentage of situations in which you want to spread less fire over a longer period of time: 0%
    Percentage of situations in which you want to unload ASAP until whatever you're looking at dies: 100%

    Having an option may be fine (albeit useless), but let's be clear about this now, there is no advantage to independently firing two weapons in a fast-paced FPS like NS, unless of course, you enjoy having to reload every five seconds because one weapon is emptying at a different rate than the other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Grenade launcher in one hand and HMG in the other. I know I wouldn't want them both bound to the same key.
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1775137:date=Jun 16 2010, 11:43 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Jun 16 2010, 11:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775137"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Overheating problems. Steady stream of doom on a building and don't want to be screwed if something else shows up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Unless for some silly reason the heat is combined from both weapons, you never want a "stream"; the better strategy is to always unload faster, not slower.

    <!--quoteo(post=1775147:date=Jun 17 2010, 03:11 AM:name=steppin'razor)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (steppin'razor @ Jun 17 2010, 03:11 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775147"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Grenade launcher in one hand and HMG in the other. I know I wouldn't want them both bound to the same key.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I'm not sure what combinations are possible, but I'm mostly referring to a dual minigun arrangement.
    In the event that this becomes a core game mechanic (which I hope it does not), in the very least I would expect a bindable command that toggles firing both weapons in sync.
  • TrCTrC Join Date: 2008-11-30 Member: 65612Members
    I hate idea of 2 different buttons but if you must make it standard, please add a possiblity of binding (script!111) both to one key.
  • MuYeahMuYeah Join Date: 2006-12-26 Member: 59261Members
    thats a really dumb thing to complain about. if there is basic HL-like scripting you can easil change it to your liking:

    alias +shoot +attack;+attack2

    not that its even worth doing. sometimes you should just learn to do something new
  • RobBRobB TUBES OF THE INTERWEB Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    <!--quoteo(post=1775093:date=Jun 16 2010, 08:05 PM:name=Racer1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racer1 @ Jun 16 2010, 08:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775093"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does the heavy/mech have additional arms attached to reload the weapons? If not, I don't see how you would dual wield shotguns or GLs and also reload them -- unless you had to put away your second weapon to reload, which would be time consuming and annoying.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Why the hell do you need additional arms? If they really have a different layout, they are mount-feed (ammo is dispensed to them through their attachment to the exo).


    If the exo goes down, can you survive?
  • MathBRMathBR Join Date: 2007-12-21 Member: 63226Members
    ok, as i see, it is not every weapon that can be placed in dual mode, am i right?
    If so, i am very curious about that new game play in NS2
    otherwise tsc tsc tsc, no chances for an onos against a heavy with double HMG´s, I can´t see how marines will not be overpowered against all that new stuff, and still nothing new displayed on the alien side.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1775156:date=Jun 17 2010, 12:25 PM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Jun 17 2010, 12:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->thats a really dumb thing to complain about. if there is basic HL-like scripting you can easil change it to your liking:

    alias +shoot +attack;+attack2

    not that its even worth doing. sometimes you should just learn to do something new<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Usually the design isn't very good if you have to script yourself past it. I think we've learned something from NS1 and its partitially inaccessible customization.
  • Cereal_KillRCereal_KillR Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1775153:date=Jun 17 2010, 10:49 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jun 17 2010, 10:49 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775153"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Unless for some silly reason the heat is combined from both weapons, you never want a "stream"; the better strategy is to always unload faster, not slower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    I beg to differ, you very often want to be able to shoot constantly rather than all at the same time.


    Example:
    1. An alien comes at you, you shoot both weapons. Alien dead, you reload your weapons. Alien2 comes at you, you die.
    2. An alien comes at you, you shoot both weapons. Alien dead, you reload your left weapon. Alien2 comes at you, you shoot your right weapon. Left weapon reloaded, you reload your right weapon.


    Depending on the strength of the weapons, it can be very useful to have a stream rather than a burst. It's often enough to keep aliens at bay rather than to kill them.
  • DrownDrown Underwater Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10392Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1775134:date=Jun 17 2010, 12:09 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jun 17 2010, 12:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775134"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Percentage of situations in which you want to spread less fire over a longer period of time: 0%
    Percentage of situations in which you want to unload ASAP until whatever you're looking at dies: 100%

    Having an option may be fine (albeit useless), but let's be clear about this now, there is no advantage to independently firing two weapons in a fast-paced FPS like NS, unless of course, you enjoy having to reload every five seconds because one weapon is emptying at a different rate than the other.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    There are several advantages. Speaking in absolutes about fragments of a concept is just silly. Anyway, it's already been properly suggested that there are many situations where it is advantageous to have two independently firing weapons. I can think of several more.. particularly if the differing weapon options on the heavy have differing attributes. I know I wouldn't want to waste AP ammo on structures or lesser lifeforms when that onos is still roaming around nearby.
  • BacillusBacillus Join Date: 2006-11-02 Member: 58241Members
    I think it's pretty easy to come up with justifications for separate fire controls as long as you're allowed to make up features to support it. UWE folks just haven't talked about that part of the gameplay yet.

    I think it's at least one way to make the human sentry turret role more interesting.
  • LoeyLoey Join Date: 2009-10-31 Member: 69187Members
    ive always hated overheating weapons. instead of them just not firing once they;ve heated up, they should just become more reliable and have stoppages you have to rectify, like far cry 2.
  • DrownDrown Underwater Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10392Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1775178:date=Jun 17 2010, 11:18 AM:name=Loey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Loey @ Jun 17 2010, 11:18 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775178"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->ive always hated overheating weapons. instead of them just not firing once they;ve heated up, they should just become more reliable and have stoppages you have to rectify, like far cry 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You mean less reliable, not more. But that's not a bad idea to mix with overheating - when a weapon is overheated its attack cone goes to a range 10x normal and maybe attack speed slows, but doesn't stop.
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1775156:date=Jun 17 2010, 06:25 AM:name=MuYeah)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MuYeah @ Jun 17 2010, 06:25 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->thats a really dumb thing to complain about. if there is basic HL-like scripting you can easil change it to your liking:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    As others said, poor game design if you need to script something that should be standard.

    <!--quoteo(post=1775172:date=Jun 17 2010, 09:59 AM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Jun 17 2010, 09:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775172"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Example:
    1. An alien comes at you, you shoot both weapons. Alien dead, you reload your weapons. Alien2 comes at you, you die.
    2. An alien comes at you, you shoot both weapons. Alien dead, you reload your left weapon. Alien2 comes at you, you shoot your right weapon. Left weapon reloaded, you reload your right weapon.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Except that you neglected to note you took twice as long in #2 and only wounded Alien, by which time both Aliens have killed you (unless anyone absurdly believes it will be only one bullet per kill). In NS, the faster you kill something, the better.

    <!--quoteo(post=1775173:date=Jun 17 2010, 10:08 AM:name=Drown)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Drown @ Jun 17 2010, 10:08 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775173"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There are several advantages.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Absolutely none for the only confirmed setup we know of: dual miniguns. See above.
  • Revi.ukRevi.uk Join Date: 2010-04-12 Member: 71354Members
    There is a fundamental flaw in every ones logic in this thread. You're ALL applying this new mechanic to Natural Selection 1's game play.
  • RobBRobB TUBES OF THE INTERWEB Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19423Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited June 2010
    Really? Read again what I typed.

    edit-
    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Absolutely none for the only confirmed setup we know of: dual miniguns.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    doubled damage vs doubled firetime.
    I'd expect a skulk to think twice charging a dual wielding exo, no matter if it's firing dual or single.
  • culpritculprit Join Date: 2005-01-07 Member: 33527Members, Constellation
    They stated that the exo uses different weapons than the standard marine (or JP?). This means that the exo's weapons will not be reloaded and will not have secondary fire modes. It seems that the weapons will just be controlled by the two mouse buttons. This allows for conservative/suppressive fire as well as concentrated dual-fire at the players discretion. I can see how this sort of thing would be very useful with the exo, especially when in the 'lock-down' sentry mode.

    As for the balance of this powerful tech, I think this is countered by the Onos forward shield crouch ability. If you are locking down a pathway, and you see an onos headed up the hallway, it is probably time to call for backup/ambush or beat a retreat. This dynamic should make flanking tactics extremely useful for the marines.
  • DrownDrown Underwater Join Date: 2002-12-02 Member: 10392Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1775259:date=Jun 18 2010, 12:44 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jun 18 2010, 12:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Absolutely none for the only confirmed setup we know of: dual miniguns. See above.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Even if it's only dual miniguns and no other options are available, it will still be useful to have separate fire buttons. But it's good that you can't recognize the usefulness of having more options instead of less.
  • Cereal_KillRCereal_KillR Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1837Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1775259:date=Jun 18 2010, 06:44 AM:name=R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (R_e_n_e_g_a_d_e @ Jun 18 2010, 06:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Except that you neglected to note you took twice as long in #2 and only wounded Alien, by which time both Aliens have killed you (unless anyone absurdly believes it will be only one bullet per kill). In NS, the faster you kill something, the better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    No I didn't neglect that. In both cases you shoot both weapons for alien 1. In the second case, however, you have the opportunity of reloading a single gun while still being able to operate the second one should an alien decide to exploit your temporary weakness. Therefore bolstering your overall survivability because you will never be helpless.

    I am definitely not saying that dual wielding should be weapon 1 or 2 and that using one blocks the use of the other. I'm saying it should be weapon 1 and/or 2. Obviously most of the time you'd use both, but not always.
  • ChickenOfWarChickenOfWar Join Date: 2003-04-09 Member: 15352Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1774957:date=Jun 15 2010, 06:18 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jun 15 2010, 06:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1774957"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes, only Heavys can duel wield.

    --Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ugh friggen WHY would you implement something like this? This is natural selection not halo. Its just so... NOT a natural selection thing to do.
  • JimydJimyd Join Date: 2003-02-08 Member: 13289Members
    edited June 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1775322:date=Jun 18 2010, 12:59 PM:name=ChickenOfWar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ChickenOfWar @ Jun 18 2010, 12:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ugh friggen WHY would you implement something like this? This is natural selection not halo. Its just so... NOT a natural selection thing to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href="http://pendulumopinions.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/aliens-ripley-powerloader_1193711350.jpg" target="_blank">http://pendulumopinions.files.wordpress.co..._1193711350.jpg</a>

    H.E.X.O.(Heavy Exoskeleton), just replace the grip claws with Miniguns = NS2 Heavy.

    LOLZ!!!

    Common sense?

    Obviously the NS2 HEXO will be an enclosed carparace, since Lork Gas doesn't affect it(this also means it is armored).

    Combine that with Planetside Anchor Ability:

    <a href="http://www.darkintellect.com/yaoi/planetside/cinematic%20-%20the%20max%20that%20didn%27t%20make%20it.png" target="_blank">http://www.darkintellect.com/yaoi/planetsi...20make%20it.png</a>

    You get a beastly "Power Armor" for Marines to use.
  • Donner & BlitzenDonner & Blitzen Join Date: 2010-03-08 Member: 70879Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1775311:date=Jun 18 2010, 02:11 PM:name=Cereal_KillR)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cereal_KillR @ Jun 18 2010, 02:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1775311"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No I didn't neglect that. In both cases you shoot both weapons for alien 1. In the second case, however, you have the opportunity of reloading a single gun while still being able to operate the second one should an alien decide to exploit your temporary weakness. Therefore bolstering your overall survivability because you will never be helpless.

    I am definitely not saying that dual wielding should be weapon 1 or 2 and that using one blocks the use of the other. I'm saying it should be weapon 1 and/or 2. Obviously most of the time you'd use both, but not always.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    In the first case, you wouldn't need to reload either of your weapons, because you used fewer bullets from each gun to kill the alien.
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