<!--quoteo(post=1780359:date=Jul 18 2010, 07:41 AM:name=ASnogarD)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ASnogarD @ Jul 18 2010, 07:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780359"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A possible yet RELATIVELY cheap possibility is to change the headgear depending on weapon the Marine is holding... like a full facemask + goggles when using the Flamer unit, prehaps lower the visor for the grenade launcher, a simple lower face only mask for the shotgun user and a the blue hud for the assault rifle user.
In case you were wondering : Full mask to protect against backbasts of the flamer, lowered visor for limiting blindness from grenade explosions, lower face only mask on the shotgun as he will be in close range ( implying but not really protection from gases and alien liquids) and the HUD to imply ranged accuracy from the AR (or is it LMG ?)
This would give some distinction at a relatively cheap cost in resources, in my opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That certainly sounds like a good idea. I wouldn't say change headgear but rather letting it transform a bit (it does look pretty modifiable as it is anyway), and possibly changing the colour of the visor or the back/front lights they have. It's perhaps a very clear way for the aliens to know which target to hit that way, but hey isn't the same true for the marines to hit the different alien classes?
I think that changing the visual distinction as far as TF2 or Global Agenda does it is over the top, but subtle changes like this would help both teamplay (protect the guy with the red visor and red chestlights, we need him!) and grant somewhat more of a unique feel to the player.
<!--quoteo(post=1780723:date=Jul 19 2010, 03:18 PM:name=Triggerman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Triggerman @ Jul 19 2010, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780723"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think that changing the visual distinction as far as TF2 or Global Agenda does it is over the top, but subtle changes like this would help both teamplay (protect the guy with the red visor and red chestlights, we need him!) and grant somewhat more of a unique feel to the player.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like the your idea about changing the colour of visors or LEDs on the armour. If someone with a grenade launcher had a Red shielded visor that was obvious to the aliens, Marines would have to protect him and the aliens know exactly who to go for. It would be a very subtle, but would add a new gameplay element for both teams.
I find it useless to change visor colours or anything depending on the weapon, i'm sorry but if you can't see a massive grenade launcher or differentiate it from an lmg/shotgun/switchaxe whatever, then yeah... I don't really have an argument about why I find it's useless, except for the fact that it just doesn't seem needed.
<!--quoteo(post=1780728:date=Jul 19 2010, 04:03 PM:name=Frhoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frhoe @ Jul 19 2010, 04:03 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find it useless to change visor colours or anything depending on the weapon, i'm sorry but if you can't see a massive grenade launcher or differentiate it from an lmg/shotgun/switchaxe whatever, then yeah... I don't really have an argument about why I find it's useless, except for the fact that it just doesn't seem needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
True, but say in 18 month when NS2 is complete, it would be a cool little polish up to have.
I still think it would be funky in addition to say.. having a big obvious HMG, the marine has also has larger ammo packs on his belt. Or marines with a GL having their left arms with extra shielding. Slight differences in armour or weapons depending on level etc. Just little things that wouldn't effect gameplay, but would make it seem more dynamic.
<!--quoteo(post=1780189:date=Jul 17 2010, 08:59 PM:name=Slycaster)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Slycaster @ Jul 17 2010, 08:59 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780189"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm sure NS will support 16v16, but the sweet spot is probably going to be anywhere from 8v8-12v12 depending on your preference. I'm assuming competitive NS2 will change from 6v6 to 8v8 with the addition of 2 more commanders and an alien commander. (potentially 6 commanders during a full scale Tier 3 vs Tier 3 game) We'll see how it plays out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's doubtful a competitive team FPS will ever have a sustainable community with teams over 6v6. It's just too difficult to get that many arseholes from the internet to co-operate that long in one team. Also, having to wait for 16 players to turn up so you can play takes a lot longer than 12 or 10. It also has the nice bonus of each player's individual skill meaning more, which competitive players obviously get a hard-on for.
I think the marines look good, I don't really understand the complaint. They're a nice upgrade from NS1 marines. I see them more as a blank canvas which allows you to pay more attention to the weapon they're holding.
<!--quoteo(post=1780728:date=Jul 19 2010, 11:03 AM:name=Frhoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frhoe @ Jul 19 2010, 11:03 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1780728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I find it useless to change visor colours or anything depending on the weapon, i'm sorry but if you can't see a massive grenade launcher or differentiate it from an lmg/shotgun/switchaxe whatever, then yeah... I don't really have an argument about why I find it's useless, except for the fact that it just doesn't seem needed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sometimes it's not all about the player's good perception and heightening the skill cap, but the fact that the game could/should visually distinct points of interest. There's plenty of work done to make sure that classes in games have a distinct profile and animations (again TF2 and Global Agenda being two good examples) and it's there for a good reason. Just because the players can quickly establish what they are meeting, that doesn't really take away the skill from actually killing the enemy? If you want your players to enjoy the game from the first trembling steps to epic-pwnage soloer, you have to help them learn it as fast as possible.
It's a very minor edit, but in the end it will help new players to actually see that difference. And that I think shouldn't be understated... But as said it's hardly of importance for alpha/beta, especially in the SE-crowd that knows the game so well already.
To add on to previous arguments, in the military, Marines are <i>supposed</i> to be similar. Marines (and even Space Marines) are supposed to be fit, shaved, fairly tall, and uniform in many ways other than weapon proficiencies. The military has standards that all Marines must meet to become a Marine, and these standards mean that all Marines share similar qualities.
That's not even getting into the fact the in every military establishment's (other than spec ops or guerrilla teams) uniforms are supposed to be... well... uniform (with the exception of rank/division insignia).
And as stated before, you can upgrade to new and different things as a Marine, which is what prevents Marines from just being a bland team.
I think the marines (basically- the armour) looks great. Maybe not Crysis-suit wow or I-could-grate-cheese-on-your-biceps-Gears-of-War wow, but still good!
I think what I like most of the marines in NS2 is that their equipment looks practical and military issued. Nothing fancy or over-the-top, it's just functional for the task at hand. Like their switch-axe, it's compact and useful, it makes sense for space marines to have something like that.
Comments
In case you were wondering : Full mask to protect against backbasts of the flamer, lowered visor for limiting blindness from grenade explosions, lower face only mask on the shotgun as he will be in close range ( implying but not really protection from gases and alien liquids) and the HUD to imply ranged accuracy from the AR (or is it LMG ?)
This would give some distinction at a relatively cheap cost in resources, in my opinion.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That certainly sounds like a good idea. I wouldn't say change headgear but rather letting it transform a bit (it does look pretty modifiable as it is anyway), and possibly changing the colour of the visor or the back/front lights they have.
It's perhaps a very clear way for the aliens to know which target to hit that way, but hey isn't the same true for the marines to hit the different alien classes?
I think that changing the visual distinction as far as TF2 or Global Agenda does it is over the top, but subtle changes like this would help both teamplay (protect the guy with the red visor and red chestlights, we need him!) and grant somewhat more of a unique feel to the player.
I like the your idea about changing the colour of visors or LEDs on the armour. If someone with a grenade launcher had a Red shielded visor that was obvious to the aliens, Marines would have to protect him and the aliens know exactly who to go for. It would be a very subtle, but would add a new gameplay element for both teams.
True, but say in 18 month when NS2 is complete, it would be a cool little polish up to have.
I still think it would be funky in addition to say.. having a big obvious HMG, the marine has also has larger ammo packs on his belt. Or marines with a GL having their left arms with extra shielding. Slight differences in armour or weapons depending on level etc. Just little things that wouldn't effect gameplay, but would make it seem more dynamic.
It's doubtful a competitive team FPS will ever have a sustainable community with teams over 6v6. It's just too difficult to get that many arseholes from the internet to co-operate that long in one team. Also, having to wait for 16 players to turn up so you can play takes a lot longer than 12 or 10. It also has the nice bonus of each player's individual skill meaning more, which competitive players obviously get a hard-on for.
I think the marines look good, I don't really understand the complaint. They're a nice upgrade from NS1 marines. I see them more as a blank canvas which allows you to pay more attention to the weapon they're holding.
Sometimes it's not all about the player's good perception and heightening the skill cap, but the fact that the game could/should visually distinct points of interest.
There's plenty of work done to make sure that classes in games have a distinct profile and animations (again TF2 and Global Agenda being two good examples) and it's there for a good reason. Just because the players can quickly establish what they are meeting, that doesn't really take away the skill from actually killing the enemy?
If you want your players to enjoy the game from the first trembling steps to epic-pwnage soloer, you have to help them learn it as fast as possible.
It's a very minor edit, but in the end it will help new players to actually see that difference. And that I think shouldn't be understated...
But as said it's hardly of importance for alpha/beta, especially in the SE-crowd that knows the game so well already.
That's not even getting into the fact the in every military establishment's (other than spec ops or guerrilla teams) uniforms are supposed to be... well... uniform (with the exception of rank/division insignia).
And as stated before, you can upgrade to new and different things as a Marine, which is what prevents Marines from just being a bland team.
edit: fixed typos