A new alien class!
Veera Kanipupu
Join Date: 2010-07-17 Member: 72495Members
Join Date: 2010-07-17 Member: 72495Members
<div class="IPBDescription">The one thing aliens have needed all along - proper ranged support</div>Hello there old veterans and new recruits alike!
As an old player of Natural Selection I have now decided to chip in my own two cents for the developing and polishing of an old love - Natural Selection. At this point I believe it would be fair to give out a warning, up ahead is a lot of reading to be done for the patient people.
Natural Selection has always been about a (mostly)melee based team fighting a ranged based team, which has always irked me off a little.
Skulks are quite fragile, and are not really meant for frontline fighting. Ambushing has been suggested as the alternative, but sometimes the map design has not really allowed for that to happen much.
Lerks have been reduced to vent-camping and flinging out the occasional spore cloud before having to make a hasty retreat from cheap hand grenades and/or snipers compressed into a handgun.
Fades are doing their job good enough (some might argue that *too* good), but getting the resources for a player to go fade will usually take out too long if the team has not been capable of holding resource towers.
Onoses then? Oh how to mighty have fallen... Onoses are nowadays not much more than an oversized, overpriced bulletsink, who has been reduced to a mere shade of it´s former glory.
Of course, one might argue with the classical argument of "Lrn2playnub" and so on, but that is hardly constructive is it?
Besides that, one thing still remains unchanged - NS2 could something new on it´s bones. Something fresh to spark some more interest among the player base of the good, old NS1. That´s where my idea tags along.
What I am proposing is a new kind of alien, fulfilling the role of ranged support / distruption / ambushing.
Lurker
Appearance - somewhat of a crossbreed between a squid, amoeba and spider. A transparent mass, moves along with the tentacles/ legs it uses to hang into walls and nooks. Moves along by crawling upon the floor. Has the ability to pounce from one place to another, which would consume energy. Is capable to stick into walls, ceilings, nooks and crannies, but is not capable of wallwalking. IS however capable of "blending" in with its surroundings after remaining stationary for some time, imagine a chameleon, lying in wait, observing and praying on it´s future dinner. Ingame terms it might mean something like a 50-percent cloaking while stationary, countered by observatories and scans as usual.
Weaponry and abilities:
1. Acid spray - Acid ball
The lurker is capable of spraying it´s victim with caustic acid, which damages the armor and eats through unprotected flesh at disturbing ease. An alien variety of the marine flamethrower of sorts. Secondary mode allows the lurker to hurl a ball of caustic acid, which explodes upon contact, also laying a pile of burning residue, hazardous to those who pass on it.
2. Ink Cloud - One of the more despised abilities on this vile creature. The lurker sprouts out a cloud of spores, which upon impacting with it´s target explode into a smoke screen of sorts, providing aliens with ranged cover. This cloud does not offer protection from bullets in the way umbra might, but it does remove the visibility of marines caught in the middle. The Kharaa however remain largely unaffected - being able to see marines covered in ink as if they were lighted up. Think of the hive vision, lighting up the marines. Or other possibility being marines showing in negative colors - black becoming white and so on. I have not come up with a good alternative for the secondary fire mode of ink cloud, mostly because in my opinion it does not need one. If desired, the primary fire could shoot a cloud all around the Lurker, while the secondary fire would allow the Lurker to select the location where the ink cloud is being released.
3. Web spray - The Lurker is capable of spraying it´s victims in a sticky substance, which restricts movement and thus making it harder for marines to escape their inenitable doom in the form of other aliens sneaking closer and closer. The web is not meant to do damage, nor impact the firing speed. It only should affect the movement speed and if possible, turning speed of marines - making them easier prey for other aliens to finish them off. Heavy Armor marines would however remain unaffected. Surely being inside powered armor has it´s perks?
4. EMP pulse / Electric Shock. The Lurker has the ability to reign chaos and misfortune upon it´s foes, but now it possesses the ability to do so in a way that also damages it´s foes. The Lurker, apparently by rubbing it´s legs against each other is able to generate enough static energy, ready to be released in an electic pulse around itself. This pulse would cause some damage on the targets, while also making their screens shake, restricting visibility. Structures would also be affected, causing blackouts and temporary malfunctions. Main usage would be for example in making the siege cannons stop firing, stopping the base turrets from shooting and so on. Secondary fire would allow the lurker to continue charging the pulse, making it´s effects stronger and longer lasting. Charging would consume energy, and also generate a loud noise, in order to serve as a warning. The lurker could also have an aura of electricity being created around itself, to also give out a visual clue/ warning.
The Lurker is not the sturdiest of alien. It could go down to a well-aimed shotgun blast and some stray shots. I am thinking of its durability somewhere between lerk and gorge.
So how does the Lurker perform in action then?
Imagine a situation of aliens taken over a room. A lurker remains stationary, waiting for marines to come in an attempt to retake the location. Lurker awaits patiently for the marines to enter, and due to not having keen enough eyes to spot the Lurker, it remains unseen.
Marines reach the center of the room, and the Lurker springs into action by shooting a cloud of ink in the middle of marines. The marines are now having their visibility reduced, making it easier for nearby skulks to start rushing towards the marines. The lurker immediately follows by shooting up acid bomb to soften up the marines. Now the skulks have reached the marines, starting to shoot out at the skulks, finishing them off. Lurker, now being spotted, has to make a run for it - lest it be blown to smithereens by machine gun fire. So it springs into action by releasing a cloud of ink over itself, and proceeding to pounce towards the closest exit, for example a vent nearby. So it pounces into action and leaps away, first to the floor, then towards the roof again, before crawling behind the nearest corner. There it lays down some web in order to slow down it´s pursuers and goes on to fight another day.
This is what I have come up to so far. Names, appearance, abilities and so on are all subject to discussion, and as usual, any criticism and comments would be more than welcome! Thank you for reading this far.
As an old player of Natural Selection I have now decided to chip in my own two cents for the developing and polishing of an old love - Natural Selection. At this point I believe it would be fair to give out a warning, up ahead is a lot of reading to be done for the patient people.
Natural Selection has always been about a (mostly)melee based team fighting a ranged based team, which has always irked me off a little.
Skulks are quite fragile, and are not really meant for frontline fighting. Ambushing has been suggested as the alternative, but sometimes the map design has not really allowed for that to happen much.
Lerks have been reduced to vent-camping and flinging out the occasional spore cloud before having to make a hasty retreat from cheap hand grenades and/or snipers compressed into a handgun.
Fades are doing their job good enough (some might argue that *too* good), but getting the resources for a player to go fade will usually take out too long if the team has not been capable of holding resource towers.
Onoses then? Oh how to mighty have fallen... Onoses are nowadays not much more than an oversized, overpriced bulletsink, who has been reduced to a mere shade of it´s former glory.
Of course, one might argue with the classical argument of "Lrn2playnub" and so on, but that is hardly constructive is it?
Besides that, one thing still remains unchanged - NS2 could something new on it´s bones. Something fresh to spark some more interest among the player base of the good, old NS1. That´s where my idea tags along.
What I am proposing is a new kind of alien, fulfilling the role of ranged support / distruption / ambushing.
Lurker
Appearance - somewhat of a crossbreed between a squid, amoeba and spider. A transparent mass, moves along with the tentacles/ legs it uses to hang into walls and nooks. Moves along by crawling upon the floor. Has the ability to pounce from one place to another, which would consume energy. Is capable to stick into walls, ceilings, nooks and crannies, but is not capable of wallwalking. IS however capable of "blending" in with its surroundings after remaining stationary for some time, imagine a chameleon, lying in wait, observing and praying on it´s future dinner. Ingame terms it might mean something like a 50-percent cloaking while stationary, countered by observatories and scans as usual.
Weaponry and abilities:
1. Acid spray - Acid ball
The lurker is capable of spraying it´s victim with caustic acid, which damages the armor and eats through unprotected flesh at disturbing ease. An alien variety of the marine flamethrower of sorts. Secondary mode allows the lurker to hurl a ball of caustic acid, which explodes upon contact, also laying a pile of burning residue, hazardous to those who pass on it.
2. Ink Cloud - One of the more despised abilities on this vile creature. The lurker sprouts out a cloud of spores, which upon impacting with it´s target explode into a smoke screen of sorts, providing aliens with ranged cover. This cloud does not offer protection from bullets in the way umbra might, but it does remove the visibility of marines caught in the middle. The Kharaa however remain largely unaffected - being able to see marines covered in ink as if they were lighted up. Think of the hive vision, lighting up the marines. Or other possibility being marines showing in negative colors - black becoming white and so on. I have not come up with a good alternative for the secondary fire mode of ink cloud, mostly because in my opinion it does not need one. If desired, the primary fire could shoot a cloud all around the Lurker, while the secondary fire would allow the Lurker to select the location where the ink cloud is being released.
3. Web spray - The Lurker is capable of spraying it´s victims in a sticky substance, which restricts movement and thus making it harder for marines to escape their inenitable doom in the form of other aliens sneaking closer and closer. The web is not meant to do damage, nor impact the firing speed. It only should affect the movement speed and if possible, turning speed of marines - making them easier prey for other aliens to finish them off. Heavy Armor marines would however remain unaffected. Surely being inside powered armor has it´s perks?
4. EMP pulse / Electric Shock. The Lurker has the ability to reign chaos and misfortune upon it´s foes, but now it possesses the ability to do so in a way that also damages it´s foes. The Lurker, apparently by rubbing it´s legs against each other is able to generate enough static energy, ready to be released in an electic pulse around itself. This pulse would cause some damage on the targets, while also making their screens shake, restricting visibility. Structures would also be affected, causing blackouts and temporary malfunctions. Main usage would be for example in making the siege cannons stop firing, stopping the base turrets from shooting and so on. Secondary fire would allow the lurker to continue charging the pulse, making it´s effects stronger and longer lasting. Charging would consume energy, and also generate a loud noise, in order to serve as a warning. The lurker could also have an aura of electricity being created around itself, to also give out a visual clue/ warning.
The Lurker is not the sturdiest of alien. It could go down to a well-aimed shotgun blast and some stray shots. I am thinking of its durability somewhere between lerk and gorge.
So how does the Lurker perform in action then?
Imagine a situation of aliens taken over a room. A lurker remains stationary, waiting for marines to come in an attempt to retake the location. Lurker awaits patiently for the marines to enter, and due to not having keen enough eyes to spot the Lurker, it remains unseen.
Marines reach the center of the room, and the Lurker springs into action by shooting a cloud of ink in the middle of marines. The marines are now having their visibility reduced, making it easier for nearby skulks to start rushing towards the marines. The lurker immediately follows by shooting up acid bomb to soften up the marines. Now the skulks have reached the marines, starting to shoot out at the skulks, finishing them off. Lurker, now being spotted, has to make a run for it - lest it be blown to smithereens by machine gun fire. So it springs into action by releasing a cloud of ink over itself, and proceeding to pounce towards the closest exit, for example a vent nearby. So it pounces into action and leaps away, first to the floor, then towards the roof again, before crawling behind the nearest corner. There it lays down some web in order to slow down it´s pursuers and goes on to fight another day.
This is what I have come up to so far. Names, appearance, abilities and so on are all subject to discussion, and as usual, any criticism and comments would be more than welcome! Thank you for reading this far.
Comments
You re-described Acid Spores from NS1, except in a stream or a exploding on impact ball as its main attack, and the webs from a Gorge for slowing.
It's been brought up before and the many players agree visual impairment is not an especially good mechanic to use on Marines due to the close-combat nature of the fighting. I personally dislike it.
The only intriguing idea for me is the EMP. But I have misgivings due to the ability to shut down buildings. Seems like it could be quite overpowered in certain situations.
Really though the biggest thing is there is a huge amount of effort required to make a whole new Alien class, and in general people are pretty reluctant unless you have a seriously kick-ass idea to get behind a new Alien.
I stopped reading after this:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Natural Selection has always been about a (mostly)melee based team fighting a ranged based team, which has always irked me off a little.
Skulks are quite fragile, and are not really meant for frontline fighting. Ambushing has been suggested as the alternative, but sometimes the map design has not really allowed for that to happen much.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In fact, after you stated that it irks you off that aliens are mostly melee based.
Now think about it. Even while skulks are fragile and an ambushing class, even while mapdesign doesnt allow for such tactics, they are usefull. Don't you think that your tactics are wrong when everyone else trys their best?
Instead of changing the game, change yourself first.
Analyze what YOU might be doing wrong, then come and suggest changes that upheave the whole game.
Yes, a single class changes the balance drastically, even if wouldn't appear so.
If it is sturdier than a skulk and costs less than a fade, it's problematic.
Also, with alpha coming up in less than two weeks, wouldn't you think that UWE already thought about the core problems of each class?
And your suggesting of 4 attacks shows you didnt even bother to inform yourself. As each alien has a distinct moving ability right from hive 1 now (think leap, fly, charge, blink belly sliding, etc), that is not an attack as to directly kill (might deal damage, i dont know, but its not meant as a replacement for, lets say, bite).
Plus, it interferes with both the lerk's and onos' role, which is simply bad.
The lerk has a gas cloud which is very similar to your ink cloud.
The web spray is good but it means that you would have to get close to your enemy and this seems to be a bit more long-ranged than short-ranged.
You have a few good ideas but these would go better in improving the current Kharaa moves.
It seems to be a creature that doesn't go into combat that much but instead sets traps and that was a small part of what the gorge could do in NS...
You also have to think about balance. Another class would mean that people will have to learn how to counter it and if it is to powerful then the balance would be tipped.
Also, your descriptive writing is very good are you a writer by any chance?
Now to go on and try to play the devil´s advocate a bit further...
"Lerk already fills the ranged support role, and better." - Yes, Lerk is ranged support. I am not even trying to deny that one. What I am curious about is that if there is some way to add more of that, in a different variety. One thing that also popped into my mind is that is it plausible to implement Lurker as a ranged support / ranged ambush unit? I do not think we have such a niche filled yet. I guess what I am trying to create here is a method that punishes marines for ramboing in gung-ho with guns blazing. Go loose and you deserve to get your head chopped off.
"You re-described Acid Spores from NS1, except in a stream or a exploding on impact ball as its main attack, and the webs from a Gorge for slowing." - Acid Spores are/were a form of hit-and-run area-denial weapon, from a highly mobile platform. The acid spray from lurker is more along the lines of direct damage, either applied directly towards the target(s). Intention is a "flamethrower" of sorts. The acid bomb is just a "safer" variety to do the same. Area denial as well, not denying that. Might need more discussion though, so I am open for reworking.
Perhaps a method to lay mines or so could be useful? Sporemines (plug-in I know) served a quite interesting gameplay mechanic to me. More options seem like a good idea. Balanced, useful, *needed* gameplay options sound like a great option to me.
"It's been brought up before and the many players agree visual impairment is not an especially good mechanic to use on Marines due to the close-combat nature of the fighting. I personally dislike it." - The rationalisation behind the Ink Cloud as an offensive weapon is simple. Marines as humans are mostly based on vision for their hunting method. Surely an intelligent bacteria, capable of evolving into living battering rams and teleporting, gravity defying scythes-for-hands walking shredders would also be capable on capitalizing on such an obvious achilles heel? The duration, amount of visibility reduced and area would naturally be subject to tweaks and thus eventually be balanced. Once again, the idea is to discuss if there is the possibility to fit in something new? So far I am not unconvinced that the idea of a new class is void of such potential.
"In fact, after you stated that it irks you off that aliens are mostly melee based."
Yes, not that it being all that bad of an idea in itself. Unsymmetrical teams certainly give/gave NS the unique feeling of it.
"Now think about it. Even while skulks are fragile and an ambushing class, even while mapdesign doesnt allow for such tactics, they are usefull. Don't you think that your tactics are wrong when everyone else trys their best?"
More tactical options is exactly what I am trying to add here. Sure, mapdesign ruins some perfectly good ambushing moments, and that is not the games fault in itself. That would be the mappers fault. However, would removing some of the "flaws" of map design by adding more tactical versatility be instead a more creative approach to the problem? Would it not also open up more options for mappers? This does not however mean that I intend to force mapmakers into creating long corridors because of aliens having the option of smoke-screening their opposition?
"Instead of changing the game, change yourself first.
Analyze what YOU might be doing wrong, then come and suggest changes that upheave the whole game." - Oh I have. The game is called Natural Selection. To me it means adapt or die. Quite literally in the in-game world.
"Yes, a single class changes the balance drastically, even if wouldn't appear so."
- I am aware that this class would change the balance of the game. Adding something new is *supposed* to do so.
"If it is sturdier than a skulk and costs less than a fade, it's problematic."
- Agreed. However, it is subject to gameplay testing, and in my honest opinion, the hitpoints and durability would not be the biggest issue with this one. Balance would come by testing. Right now it is obviously impossible for me to say the exact hitpoints etc. for not knowing the different damagetypes, being unable to do dps-calculations and so on.
"Also, with alpha coming up in less than two weeks, wouldn't you think that UWE already thought about the core problems of each class?"
- Why certainly I would. So far I have no information concerning how some of the core problems are solved, thus making it also impossible for me to have any possibilities in figuring out whether those things would make my idea obsolete or not. So I throw my two cents on to the table.
"And your suggesting of 4 attacks shows you didnt even bother to inform yourself. As each alien has a distinct moving ability right from hive 1 now (think leap, fly, charge, blink belly sliding, etc), that is not an attack as to directly kill (might deal damage, i dont know, but its not meant as a replacement for, lets say, bite)."
- I am not exactly sure what you are intending to say here. Yes, I am aware that each alien has a somewhat distinctive movement style. The
way I envision Lurker to get from one place to the other is by pouncing from one firing position to the other, serving as a mobile ranged support platform of sorts. Causing some damage, but being mainly a support tool to help other aliens close in for the kill in frontal combat, and being a much more effective defensive tool when properly used. An anti-rambo and anti-rushing tool, delaying the marines and buying more time for regrouping. Yes, you did get it right though if you are implying that the Lurker´s pounce/leap does not do damage. That is not my intention.
"Plus, it interferes with both the lerk's and onos' role, which is simply bad." - How exactly? The EMP-pulse is supposed to be an assistant in hurting HA-trains, should they exist in NS2 as we know them from NS1. However, the Lurker is not meant for direct frontal assault like the onos is.
"The only intriguing idea for me is the EMP. But I have misgivings due to the ability to shut down buildings. Seems like it could be quite overpowered in certain situations." - Yes, it might be overpowered. The ability to shut down buildings might also be redundant. I am not intending the EMP to be an instant shut-off for everything. It could for example cause turrets to track their targets slower, lose accuracy, shoot in a slower pace or anything else among the lines. For other marine equipment, the results could vary. One potential use I thought for the EMP would be for example in a siege situation. The Lurker would charge the siege turrets, EMP it, causing it to fire slower - thus buying the Kharaa more time to regroup or something like that.
"You also have to think about balance. Another class would mean that people will have to learn how to counter it and if it is to powerful then the balance would be tipped." Adding something new naturally takes some effort in learning, which is exactly as it should be. I am interested in filling out a niche that would add more to the total gameplay experience, not take away from it by adding a cheesecannon of dewm.
"Also, your descriptive writing is very good are you a writer by any chance?" - Thanks for the compliment! I am indeed a writer of sorts, but that small descriptive part is just a by-product of a sinister mind :)
Thanks again for anyone reading this far. Also more thanks for the feedback, any constructive criticism is welcomed :)
I think we should make them more focused what they are already good at instead of suggesting new abilities
Also, make it a LITTLE easy for n00bs, not much, just enough that they don't get pissed at the game.
If you feel like the game is lacking something, say why and how it could be fixed. Don't make up a new class with its own name, the forum and most definitely the devs won't care about it.
While you are really trying to make it sound like it's not a slightly different Lerk, it really sounds just like that.
I think you're misunderstanding what I said. It is a sound mechanic in terms of disabling a player, but then you've actively disabled the player and many don't find that fun at all in the context of a game like NS. Similarly, many dislike a L4D Hunter pounce ability because it allows you to instantly 1v1 a Marine, and we want a single Marine to still have a chance. We do not want hard enforced teamwork. Similarly this was a major complaint about Devour in how it instantly removes you from play and you can't really do anything about it once it happens. That feeling of helplessness is what ticks people off and what makes it a hard sell.
I completly agree.
It was annoying that 1 marine could easiliy kill an Onos if they had an SMG, Jetpack, and the 3rd upgrade for weapons.
The Acid Spores did require a small use of tactics but having a direct line of fire will be over balanced. I think having something new for the Marines would be better than having a new class for the Kharaa...
Aliens will have an inane move skill (leap in the case of skulk) along an hive one attack. beyond that they have 3 attacks in total.
Also, use <!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->[quote]<!--c2--></div><!--ec2--> next time. People hate walls of text.
Plus, onos is now a supportive disruptor (cover for smaller classes + damage bonus against buildings).
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So I throw my two cents on to the table.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It appears noone wants them, so why not simply wait until the game is available to the public (or preordering players at least)