How do you get so good?

RabhimselfRabhimself Join Date: 2010-06-29 Member: 72198Members
edited July 2010 in NS2 General Discussion
This question is directed at those players (NS1) that are just incredibly good.

I've been trying to get back into some NS1 at the moment after years of being away from it and some people are just unbelievable.

You know the guys I'm talking about, they never miss a single shot and end up with k/d of like 40 - 2 at the end of the game. How do you do it? Practise?
I mean I play a lot of fps on PC, many with harder aimining mechanics than the good old point and click present on NS1, but when I come on to this game I struggle to hit a skulk that is leaping about. These guys just seem to lock on and wipe you out instantly. They just seem to make every bullet count, I just don't understand how their aim can be so flawless given the erratic movement of their opponents.

Same applies to playing as kharaa. I'm probably the worst skulk to be currently playing NS1. I get shot virtually every time, even if I manage to sneak up from behind. I can jump around like a fool and still I die instantly.

Basically, to all you pro vets, any tips?
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Comments

  • ZimbuTheMonkeyZimbuTheMonkey Join Date: 2010-07-14 Member: 72359Members
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI</a>
  • pSyk0mAnpSyk0mAn Nerdish by Nature Germany Join Date: 2003-08-07 Member: 19166Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    edited July 2010
    First of all I applaud you for not crying cheater like few too many baddies like to do on ns pubs.

    Read the articles at <a href="http://www.ensl.org/" target="_blank">http://www.ensl.org/</a>
    and, if you like, sign up and join a gather to practise with good players.

    Even watching gathers, match hltv demos or blind's nice shoutcasts might help you to figure out what you are doing wrong.
    Shoutcasts:
    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=109485&st=0&start=0" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....t=0&start=0</a>
  • DarkFrostDarkFrost Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15154Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
    Omg zimbuthemonkey that video with CC enabled is quality! Best laugh I've had in a while.
  • SyknikSyknik InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2064Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited July 2010
    For marines: Know where the aliens are, listen, voice_enable 0 if you need too. If you know where they are you don't need to wait for them to come to you, go to them, most of them wont expect it especially if you decide to walk up a little closer. When an alien dies, stop shooting, the more bullets you have in your clip the more you can kill. Even if you're fighting 2 skulks, learn how to move properly, jump backwards, side strafe, do whatever you need to do to get far from them or for them to miss their bites. Don't waste your nades on stupid ######. Know what you're going up against, if it's an onos and you're a friggen sg or lmg marine armor 2.. back the heck up. get with a group. If they have sensory. feel free to waste as much ammo as you feel is necessary if you think there's a guy hiding. Don't over cover, if you do some idiot is going to get hit by the back, and then everyone covering the front will shoot their own players, bullets wont get through and the skulk or whatever will get more than just that initial kill. Know how the alien classes work, skulks normally hide off the ground in little areas. if there's around a corner more than likely they'll side strafe out in one shot and kill you. Use mines properly, it shouldn't take more than like 2 seconds to plae all 4 mines around the PG (that gets people a lot of kills) Don't be like the other idiots who waste 10 pistol bullets in a second flat, aim, shoot. Most of the guys who waste their pistol bullets really fast you'll normally see them panic and miss, just take your time. The better your aim gets the quicker you can shoot and actually hit with your pistol. (The people who are better and actually use the pistol script can get away with it, because they CAN aim) Finally, know the maps, learn the movement skills, double jumping, circle strafing, bunny hopping, wiggle walking, all these help.

    For aliens: Don't be stupid, as skulk try to sneak up and always help others, even if you die it doesn't matter someone else will get the kill, it's more teamwork on alien side so your score shouldn't matter. after a while assume they've gotten MT, so stop getting silence, it's pointless. (Most better players always check their backs and look around at where all the aliens are). always quickly check down a corridor to see if there are marines anywhere. Use your alien flashlight to easily spot marines. USE LEAP WITH SECOND HIVE. Leap towards them, bite while flying by, leap straight up, then back down at them and bite again, and again. You have SO much air control with leap it's just dumb, if there's a small window you can probobly leap and go right through it, directing yourself mid air. Also, Wall jumping, start bunny hopping into a corridor, if there's a guy, jump onto the wall, them jump onto the other one and make your way towards him, this is VERY effective, and works extremely well if you're with someone else.

    And those are my tips of the day.

    edit: One more thing, we the vets have been playing for almost 8 years, most of us competitively for most of those years. All of this stuff is old news, we learned it all years ago so it's all second nature.
  • Katana-Katana- Join Date: 2008-11-25 Member: 65575Members
    Actually, NS1 is a pretty unique fps, so if you play other fps a lot, it can almost be a disadvantage. Some notes about the mechanics of ns:

    1. None of the weapons have an accuracy penalty for moving. Run, Jump, strafe constantly to avoid being hit by skulks
    2. There is no location specific damage. IE shooting some one in the foot is the same as the head. Aim for the middle of your targets.

    If you keep at it, you'll get better at hitting sulks. It takes some getting used to, to be able to track and predict the movements of the aliens.

    Another thing to keep in mind when playing ns1. At this point, 80-90% of the people playing ns now, have been playing for years and years. So even the worst players on a server have a good chance of having loads of experience. Don't feel bad about getting stomped for a while.

    BUT! One of the cool things about ns, is that you can still be useful to your team! I would suggest you always move around with a buddy, and pay attention to your team. On alien's side volenteer to drop nodes at the start, and as marines build base and move out in the second wave. It may sounds boring, but it well help you learn the game.
  • KovenKoven Join Date: 2007-04-20 Member: 60677Members, Constellation
    'fraid he's right.

    Practice.

    Always be playin with people better than you. When you're dead, waiting to spawn use that time to review how you could of handled that situation better.

    1. Practice
    2. Review
    3. Profit
  • Chris0132Chris0132 Join Date: 2009-07-25 Member: 68262Members
    I find composure helps, when you see a skulk you know it's going to kill you if you don't kill it fast, but if you don't aim carefully you can't kill it at all. Just being calm and remembering to aim does wonders for your survivability.
  • LocaneLocane Join Date: 2003-11-14 Member: 22882Members, Constellation
    edited July 2010
    They're just hacking, ignore them.

    That's right, I said it!


    Edit:

    Actually, I have gone 40 and 2 before, but it was in CO, and there were a ######ton of newbies on the other team. People who don't know how to play make good pads for your kill count.
  • RabhimselfRabhimself Join Date: 2010-06-29 Member: 72198Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1782455:date=Jul 24 2010, 05:13 PM:name=pSyk0mAn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pSyk0mAn @ Jul 24 2010, 05:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782455"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First of all I applaud you for not crying cheater like few too many baddies like to do on ns pubs.

    Read the articles at <a href="http://www.ensl.org/" target="_blank">http://www.ensl.org/</a>
    and, if you like, sign up and join a gather to practise with good players.

    Even watching gathers, match hltv demos or blind's nice shoutcasts might help you to figure out what you are doing wrong.
    Shoutcasts:
    <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=109485&st=0&start=0" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index....t=0&start=0</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I'll be perfectly honest. If I didn't a) trust VAC so much and b) trust the hardcore NS community, I probably would be crying cheater. Some of these guys are really unbelievable. Wiping out 4 skulks in a oner when I'd probably get two at BEST.

    However, I know they have just been playing for years. I too played NS when it was first released but gave up several years ago due to diminished player count. I've been watching some of the vids and the reflex speed of some of the guys quite frankly worries me lol. As soon as they see a skulk, even if it is bouncing about the aimer is straight onto them in a flash

    Likewise with the good skulk players - they seem to always keep track of their target ( which I know is my problem, I become disorientated when up close to the marines and end up getting shot ).
  • noncomposmentisnoncomposmentis Join Date: 2004-11-13 Member: 32773Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1782485:date=Jul 24 2010, 10:16 AM:name=Rabhimself)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rabhimself @ Jul 24 2010, 10:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782485"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Likewise with the good skulk players - they seem to always keep track of their target ( which I know is my problem, I become disorientated when up close to the marines and end up getting shot ).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    The simplest tip there which I'm sure will carry through to NS2 is don't hold the button down when you're attacking. Bite when you know it'll hit and then release to reorient yourself. Sort of nonintuitive I know. Also impossible to do since in NS you struggle to know where their hitbox actually is. But if you practice attacking like that, soon you'll be killing marines in 3 bites instead of 10.
  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1782487:date=Jul 24 2010, 05:34 PM:name=noncomposmentis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noncomposmentis @ Jul 24 2010, 05:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The simplest tip there which I'm sure will carry through to NS2 is don't hold the button down when you're attacking. Bite when you know it'll hit and then release to reorient yourself. Sort of nonintuitive I know. Also impossible to do since in NS you struggle to know where their hitbox actually is. But if you practice attacking like that, soon you'll be killing marines in 3 bites instead of 10.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->With a Skulk you need to know how far you can bite. It's further than you think.
  • Renegade.Renegade. Join Date: 2003-01-15 Member: 12313Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=1782487:date=Jul 24 2010, 12:34 PM:name=noncomposmentis)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noncomposmentis @ Jul 24 2010, 12:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The simplest tip there which I'm sure will carry through to NS2 is don't hold the button down when you're attacking. Bite when you know it'll hit and then release to reorient yourself. Sort of nonintuitive I know. Also impossible to do since in NS you struggle to know where their hitbox actually is. But if you practice attacking like that, soon you'll be killing marines in 3 bites instead of 10.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    no. unless you are using focus, better advice is just learn to track your target while biting. Semi-auto bite is about as useful as suggesting burst-fire to marines.
  • PhiXXPhiXX Join Date: 2008-10-22 Member: 65274Members
    I would say just practice and be aware of your mistakes and watch better players, you can get some important movement lessons when to fall back for example. Play and try to improve, tips will only help you in that process.
  • frostymoosefrostymoose Join Date: 2003-09-12 Member: 20799Members
    Practice only goes so far. A lot of it is just about coordination and reflexes. I could practice my ass off and still not be half as good as the best players in terms of aim. Just how it is.
  • BRICEBRICE Join Date: 2010-07-16 Member: 72453Members
    practice = muscular memory and brain co-ordination.
    =Dexterity
    add intelligence and experience..
    cocktail of good.
  • AzkarAzkar Join Date: 2003-07-16 Member: 18204Members, Constellation
    Play like 6 hours a day. Sadly I won't be able to do that now that I'm out of high school
  • PyromaniacPyromaniac Join Date: 2009-02-20 Member: 66498Members
    experience will certainly make a player better and is necessary to play well, but a player doesn't need multiple years of experience to do well. Always learn from your mistakes, evaluate how you died and what you could have done to stop it. Speccing better players will show you plenty of good tactical habits to pick up and is one of the best ways to get good at any game. Movement and positioning is just as important as aim. Aiming ability is both inherent and practiced, but a smart player that can't aim well can be better than the opposite. Don't "jump like a fool" as a skulk, it makes your path predictable.
  • brownymasterbrownymaster Join Date: 2009-07-11 Member: 68110Members
    Honestly I don't think practice/experience alone is the key. I've been playing with the same friends for years who have played as much as I have, but they still don't have the movement or aim down. It really has more to do with your aim reflex ability, and if you find that you can't improve/practice to get any better, it's just your ability cap. Like I doubt even if I trained really hard I could ever run as fast as any Olympic runners. I don't think skill should define how much fun you have though, and there's always things that require less physical ability like movement where there's much more room for regardless of aim speed.
  • NysikNysik Join Date: 2008-05-22 Member: 64312Members
    I tend to strafe a ton..

    I play WoW too.. and I'm a half wrathful feral druid.. so I tend to move around fast and strafe.. It seems to help me in other games!
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    "How do you get so good?"

    come on, why ask that question when the answer is so bloody obvious...



    postcount++? :P
  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited July 2010
    <!--quoteo(post=1782452:date=Jul 24 2010, 05:02 PM:name=Rabhimself)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rabhimself @ Jul 24 2010, 05:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782452"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You know the guys I'm talking about, they never miss a single shot and end up with k/d of like 40 - 2 at the end of the game. How do you do it? Practise?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    As said before in this thread, practice. Practice against good opponents. That's all there is to it. Talent plays a small part too, but practice is 90% I'd guesstimate.

    Fragging "normal" opponents becomes ridiculously easy when you're used to playing against the best. Whenever I play on a public server I can usually just switch my brain to "autopilot mode", there's very little effort required.
  • SyknikSyknik InversionNS2.com Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2064Members, Constellation, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Shadow
    Oh with all the stuff people have been saying about playing with better players. I find that to be very true. I've never been much of a pubber, spent my entire time playing competitive NS. So I would always practice in scrims/matches and whenever you're playing with other people who know the game just as well and skill level about the same or higher, you learn and eventually you're like 'hmm.. they don't seem to good anymore..' it's not that they aren't good anymore it's that.. you've adapted and learned how to play against better players, and you yourself have gotten better aswell. Now whenever I play in pubs, i barely give anything a second thought, i just keep moving, and shooting, i don't need to pay much attention and I still do pretty well.
  • RabhimselfRabhimself Join Date: 2010-06-29 Member: 72198Members
    edited July 2010
    Thanks for all the responses.

    I was just wondering if there were any secrets to movement or shooting that could assist.

    I don't really believe in ability cap, I'm sure if I played enough it would eventually come like it does with all other fps's. With natural selection, however, the top guys just seem to be unbelievably good.

    I.e., it's clichéd but consider that the top player in MW2 enters your game. Sure, he's gonna be good but you'll probably get him at least once.

    In NS I just cannot touch these guys - and apparently barely anybody else can either. I find it almost unfathomable that someone can play out a lengthy game as marines or kharaa (marines in particular) and only die a handful of times (if that), while dishing out several times that amount of kills.
  • NurEinMenschNurEinMensch Join Date: 2003-02-26 Member: 14056Members, Constellation
    Of course there also <i>is </i>a hand full of actual cheaters out there.
  • PrefixPrefix Éirinn go Brách Join Date: 2006-12-31 Member: 59353Members, Constellation
    edited July 2010
    Watch and listen to good players, mix with practice and getting the right set up and your on the right road.

    EDIT: In terms of setup, lower your mouse sens and download the <a href="http://www.ninelegends.com/releases/9l-ns-pack/" target="_blank">nine legends customization pack</a>.
  • brownymasterbrownymaster Join Date: 2009-07-11 Member: 68110Members
    <!--quoteo(post=1782655:date=Jul 25 2010, 12:35 AM:name=Rabhimself)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rabhimself @ Jul 25 2010, 12:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1782655"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I.e., it's clichéd but consider that the top player in MW2 enters your game. Sure, he's gonna be good but you'll probably get him at least once.

    In NS I just cannot touch these guys - and apparently barely anybody else can either. I find it almost unfathomable that someone can play out a lengthy game as marines or kharaa (marines in particular) and only die a handful of times (if that), while dishing out several times that amount of kills.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Actually most 1v1 games you probably will never get a single kill/win against a good player. Quake being a great example.

    But I think the main reason why people are unkillable in NS is because of knowing how to get in and out of situations and knowing how to make the rest of your team get "sacrificed"/exploited and correct positioning. Knowing where to go and how to move when reloading is vital to staying alive. Also, choosing how to get your kills is important, as you want to pick off straglers or the frontline marines or use a distraction/bait.
  • blindblind Join Date: 2010-04-17 Member: 71437Members, Squad Five Gold
    It's not all about aiming. But of course it's one of the keys to be really good. To be able to track correctly, you first need decent settings. There are tons of articles for a smooth gameplay on www.ensl.org. You need it for ROF, movement and tracking. Mostly fps and mouse settings which will also help alot on energy managment for fades and jetpacks. You will cry when you will experience what a decent setting can actually do to your gameplay.

    Second, it's about brains. Tane did write a nice marine guide here: <a href="http://www.ensl.org/articles/598" target="_blank">http://www.ensl.org/articles/598</a>

    I'd say a skilled marine (without jetpack) consists of
    - 10% movement skills (dodging, double jump, silent moves for ambush)
    - 20% positioning (map knowledge, experience, sound usage)
    - 30% map awareness and gamesense (where is the fade, where will the hurt lerk go, setting up a trap, checking corners, where and when to expect aliens, using the minimap, knowing when to reload, using guns on ground for a bigger clip, also where and when to expect aliens, adapting gameplay to alien chambers, a "feeling" about alien hitpoints when shooting, ...and lots more but you get the idea)
    - 40% tracking and aim

    And that doesn't even contain teamwork aspects, like covering and welding. Especially positioning yourself correctly when moving in a group.

    Being a jetpack/hmg for hunting down fades requires a bit more skill, but you will get there in no time after mastering the other stuff.


    Best way to improve is
    1. Fix your settings/config
    2. Get used to them
    3. Spectate skilled players for some days
    4. Get a coffee
    5. Dominate and smile when receiving the first hackusations

    After you then easily reached 40-2 k/d on pubs yourself, go play gathers with better players :P
  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
    I've hit a plateau in ns due to my hardware

    makes sure you can get a constant 76 fps, or even better 126 fps with developer 0


    and practice, and make sure you can bhop, and just be situationally aware
  • derWalterderWalter Join Date: 2008-10-29 Member: 65323Members
    fu** it man, in ns2 everyone will own... and all without skill!

    they need the game EASIER, so the loosers, who dont care about settings, dont care about configuration, are ALSO owning.
    they get nice achievments, maybe nice items and of corse, there will be nothing like movementskills, because such things
    could probably seperate skilled players who invested tons of hours to sharpen up from absolute ###### and beginners.

    u will never see 50-0 stats at public, because it will be like cs1.6 and css, less recoil, bigger models, more interp and a netcode that make
    everything smoooooth. dosent matter which ping, dosent matter which bandwith, its the same ###### for everyone...
    its like starcraft/broodwar and sc2 with automining :P - ofc, this pushes the players to use more micro, which give me intense games as viewer :P



    and so on, dont practice, u will not need it for ns2, belive me, they want to make a game, which is for weekendplayers with some beer in their blood :P
    ofc this is fine (###### i quitted alcohol a week ago... damn) but hum, i like tho have a mountain like the everest to look up and i like being owned
    50-0, because than i know, yes there is a god and if i want i could be this god :)

    its like i said 'bout sc2, its much more intense to look at, when some one goes like a rocket :P
    (its like tf2 vs qL)




    for all haters, i hope i talked only ######, no one can tell until 1.0 is out (or probably 3.0 ;)!!)


    gooood night :)
  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Members, Constellation
    So welding and reloading should always happen in motion. This something I have to scream my teammates over and over again. <-- this was a tibdit from the ensl guide that really stuck out, people never welding or heal on the fly...
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