<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>You did not pay an extra $20 to buy Alpha access and black armor.</b> You paid an extra $20 to support UWE and help them actually finish the game, and they gave you Alpha access and black armor as their small way of saying thanks (and because they probably couldn't afford to hire a QA team).
If you couldn't figure that out from the developers explicitly telling it to you, learn from your mistakes and do a little more reading the next time you shell out $20 for something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I paid 20$ for early alpha access. This is a deal where I give them the money so I get the alpha to play around with. If I wanted to "support" them I would have sent 20$ in an envelope.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This functionality is given!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am not the only one with connection issues, even to dedicated servers. Besides that I can "######" all day if I want about things I do not like.
Even without optimization, the Alpha build is running quite smooth for me, and the detail is absolutely gorgeous; hands down one of the best looking games I've played.
As for sticking with the Source Engine, I'm really pleased that they didn't, this engine has so much potential, and in my opinion it's going to give Source a run for its money.
we had a server with 6ppl with password and could play without problems.
we could build upgrade research, we ran around killed each other and so on.
wait for the hit dedection fix and the anti server flood fix, i think it will come in 2 days.
and then, what else, bad fps? mimimimimimimiiiiii bad fps came from serverflood, my hardware is never over 30% so whats the problem, there is plenty of space its not cranking around 100% at all four cores and the gpu? so dont mess around
i give em 2 weeks and we will have a full playable game with jetpacks and alien upgrades in it :P and if not? who cares, i waited years now, so i dont bother about some month?!
ARE YOU?
besides its an alpha, what did you expect? FUN while playing an ALPHA software??? so you have to be nuts or you don't know what you are talking 'bout.
<!--quoteo(post=1786550:date=Jul 27 2010, 12:28 PM:name=derWalter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (derWalter @ Jul 27 2010, 12:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786550"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->wtf, we had hours of playing :P
we had a server with 6ppl with password and could play without problems.
we could build upgrade research, we ran around killed each other and so on.
wait for the hit dedection fix and the anti server flood fix, i think it will come in 2 days.
and then, what else, bad fps? mimimimimimimiiiiii bad fps came from serverflood, my hardware is never over 30% so whats the problem, there is plenty of space its not cranking around 100% at all four cores and the gpu? so dont mess around
i give em 2 weeks and we will have a full playable game with jetpacks and alien upgrades in it :P and if not? who cares, i waited years now, so i dont bother about some month?!
ARE YOU?
besides its an alpha, what did you expect? FUN while playing an ALPHA software??? so you have to be nuts or you don't know what you are talking 'bout.
class dismissed<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
stating the obvious and logical, must be a fanboy -_-
Ok everyone please chill out. We really don't need the forums to turn into a giant mess of whining and insult slinging.
We appreciate people supporting and defending us and trying to explain what an alpha means to some of the folks who may be unaware of its definition and have had higher expectations. However, we'd appreciate it if it was done in a more constructive manner. A lot of people spent 40$ to play the alpha, and currently there are some big connection and server lag issues, that of course are going to be frustrating for people wanting to play. Even I was frustrated, unable to connect to games last night, as I was looking forward to playing just as much as anyone else.
So, yes, we went from playing with 25 testers on a handful of servers, to between 10-15,000 people all at once. That is bound to expose some major issues that hadn't been a problem in our internal testing phase. But, obviously the major connection issues and lag issues are what we are going to figure out and address as the #1 priority, and hopefully the game will be up and running in much better shape ASAP.
We'd appreciate it if people can be understanding and keep things as civil as possible in the meantime.
<!--quoteo(post=1786259:date=Jul 27 2010, 09:23 AM:name=Rothgar)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rothgar @ Jul 27 2010, 09:23 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786259"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Performance is really bad, not sure how many players you guys were testing the game with but yeah seems to need a lot of optimization work...
Plus a lot of work still to go on basic features like, RCON, console input on dedicated servers, chat messages printing in console.
I have spawned as a spectator on the battlefield etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not only is this an alpha, but UWE has already reached the point of no return concerning the game's engine. This thread should've been closed a while ago Comprox.
- good mechanics, reasonable netcode, configurability in terms of performance - crappy models and lack of content, missing animations, textures, no optimizations
Judging from what I have seen already it's not looking all that well. The engine reminds me of a pretty map and model viewer with rushed core functionality. And that is a common mistake among new engine developers (no offence intended), because it is very difficult to further "fix" the networking if the whole engine isn't designed around this insignificant-looking bit. It might even require a total refactorization of the code, but lets leave that to Max (perhaps the designed system is very flexible, just not yet throughtly tested)
Source engine has mastered two things: - netcode flexibility (backwards server prediction, lag compensation, complex extrapolation and lots of tweaking options) - performance configurability (source games could run on lots of different specs, reliability)
The price was mediocre graphics (even compared to other games at the time HL2 was released)
And for example Crysis was on the contrary developed with looks in mind and networking added later - the result was catastrophic I'd say.
Apart from that: the game itself looks very good, I'm just concerned about the engine part, which might hold back release of the finished product for quite a significant time :(
(and fanboyism on these forums is beyond be, you are doing a great damage to the community if each time voicing a slightest criticism causes a flamewar)
<!--quoteo(post=1786569:date=Jul 27 2010, 07:48 PM:name=rein4ce)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rein4ce @ Jul 27 2010, 07:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786569"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What Alpha should be =
- good mechanics, reasonable netcode, configurability in terms of performance - crappy models and lack of content, missing animations, textures, no optimizations
Judging from what I have seen already it's not looking all that well. The engine reminds me of a pretty map and model viewer with rushed core functionality. And that is a common mistake among new engine developers (no offence intended), because it is very difficult to further "fix" the networking if the whole engine isn't designed around this insignificant-looking bit. It might even require a total refactorization of the code, but lets leave that to Max (perhaps the designed system is very flexible, just not yet throughtly tested)
Source engine has mastered two things: - netcode flexibility (backwards server prediction, lag compensation, complex extrapolation and lots of tweaking options) - performance configurability (source games could run on lots of different specs, reliability)
The price was mediocre graphics (even compared to other games at the time HL2 was released)
And for example Crysis was on the contrary developed with looks in mind and networking added later - the result was catastrophic I'd say.
Apart from that: the game itself looks very good, I'm just concerned about the engine part, which might hold back release of the finished product for quite a significant time :(
(and fanboyism on these forums is beyond be, you are doing a great damage to the community if each time voicing a slightest criticism causes a flamewar)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So where is your game then, since you apparently know so much about how to make one?
<!--quoteo(post=1786273:date=Jul 27 2010, 04:31 PM:name=Dank McShwagger)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dank McShwagger @ Jul 27 2010, 04:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786273"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->anyone who expected to be playing this game without any problems last night is dumber then a rock.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=1786572:date=Jul 27 2010, 06:50 PM:name=Revi.uk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Revi.uk @ Jul 27 2010, 06:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786572"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So where is your game then, since you apparently know so much about how to make one?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I expected such response, no matter how invalid your argument is. I have some experience in designing and programming game engines so I simply know some patterns that emerged in game development.
I am simply pointing out my thoughts. Someone may or may not elaborate on them.
Mr. EpicJoin Date: 2003-08-01Member: 18660Members, Constellation
<!--quoteo(post=1786564:date=Jul 27 2010, 02:43 PM:name=Squeal_Like_A_Pig)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squeal_Like_A_Pig @ Jul 27 2010, 02:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786564"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ok everyone please chill out. We really don't need the forums to turn into a giant mess of whining and insult slinging.
We appreciate people supporting and defending us and trying to explain what an alpha means to some of the folks who may be unaware of its definition and have had higher expectations. However, we'd appreciate it if it was done in a more constructive manner. A lot of people spent 40$ to play the alpha, and currently there are some big connection and server lag issues, that of course are going to be frustrating for people wanting to play. Even I was frustrated, unable to connect to games last night, as I was looking forward to playing just as much as anyone else.
So, yes, we went from playing with 25 testers on a handful of servers, to between 10-15,000 people all at once. That is bound to expose some major issues that hadn't been a problem in our internal testing phase. But, obviously the major connection issues and lag issues are what we are going to figure out and address as the #1 priority, and hopefully the game will be up and running in much better shape ASAP.
We'd appreciate it if people can be understanding and keep things as civil as possible in the meantime.
Thanks.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> :)
Absolutely.
The first thing that came to mind when loading up the server browser last night was that there were 500 games, thousands of players, and previously the testing was done on an entirely different scale and situation. When duplicating the original test condition, few players without undue load on the connection attempts, it seemed to work alright. There was of course some inherent lag, but ns2 alpha was there and interactive.
The alpha test for pre-orderers, at this point, is a peek into the direction of NS2 that the screenshots and short videos can't give. It is a great opportunity to be able to see the game at this stage, and to be in a position where the devs can listen to feedback.
I think the best thing alpha testers can try to do right now is to ignore the glaring issues inherent in the test, the obviously debug-mode performance issues, and instead concentrate on the gameplay and other information that the game gives us and share those thoughts and concerns with the devs.
Just think of it that way and I think it's a very positive thing:
The community is now the Q&A Team and by this we can assure that the game will rock, because most of the time you play your average mainstream game and come across some weirdness and you think "How could the f uc king Q&A Team not recognize this major flaw ?"
This is now our opportunity and our duty to make NS2 as awesome as possible !
If you have a problem with that, I'm sorry for you and I hope you'll survive it anyway, but to all the others let's work together as a team to make this the new Half-Life AND Starcraft just like UWE dreamed it to be ... we can make this happen.
<!--quoteo(post=1786535:date=Jul 27 2010, 02:15 PM:name=V_MAN)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (V_MAN @ Jul 27 2010, 02:15 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786535"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By all means then we won't have to listen when you feel compelled to reply to a post in order to point out it's an Alpha...
The OP is pointing out things that don't work right, were supposed to being doing that are we not? Along with listing any bugs we encounter and perhaps things that could be changed in order to make the game better, things that might not have occurred to the developers for some reason or other. Maybe he could be a bit more specific with regard to the performance comment, such as listing his system specifications and how the game was performing on <b>HIS</b> system, what was happening on screen etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The topic of his post was asking if they should've stuck with the source engine. I don't see how that is constructive at all. He was begging to be flamed.
While I can appreciate how people feel about not having a perfectly fun and functional game, I think the complaints are baseless. Like people have said, it seems like most ppl here do not have actual alpha testing experience. I, for my part, given my rig, am thrilled I got in game on my own LAN listen server. I honesty expected crashes every 2 minutes. Alphas are not inherently stable, and they're not even necessarily playable. There are going to be a TON of problems and it's not going to be optimized yet. But we get to see something very cool. We get to see a game being built before our eyes. Furthermore, we might get to have a say on HOW the game gets developed. Furthermore, the source engine just doesn't play nicely with anything that's not more or less straight FPS. My team and I had the option to switch to source from GldSrc years ago. We chose to further develop in our own way on GldSrc because we could do a lot more with it. Here's things we can do:
1. Give feedback. There's an ingame reporting link. I'm pretty sure it connect to www.getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds You can give comments and bug reports. If you're going to report a bug, please be as specific as possible in terms of what happens and what you do to make it happen. 2. Keep up to date on the changelogs as they come out. This will let you know what's supposed to be fixed and how things are supposed to work. 3. Don't stop playing. Even if it's just a little bit every week for a few minutes. Just to keep up with things.
We all want this to succeed because it's good seeing small companies make it in the USA and the game will be awesome when done.
<!--quoteo(post=1786584:date=Jul 27 2010, 07:57 PM:name=1mannARMEE)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (1mannARMEE @ Jul 27 2010, 07:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786584"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just think of it that way and I think it's a very positive thing:
The community is now the Q&A Team and by this we can assure that the game will rock, because most of the time you play your average mainstream game and come across some weirdness and you think "How could the f uc king Q&A Team not recognize this major flaw ?"
This is now our opportunity and our duty to make NS2 as awesome as possible !
If you have a problem with that, I'm sorry for you and I hope you'll survive it anyway, but to all the others let's work together as a team to make this the new Half-Life AND Starcraft just like UWE dreamed it to be ... we can make this happen.
This thread need to be closed asap. We have people claiming to have developed games spouting incorrect information about what alpha builds should be, we have people talking about the usage of other engines, which isn't going to happen, we have lots of trolling, flaming. It's going no where.
The game is not just in it's alpha stages, but it's been in it's closed public alpha test barely over 12 hours. Not only that, but the dev team not only acknowledged the issues, but are working on them. What's worse is, by bashing the engine, what do we hope to accomplish? Punish the devs? WHY? That won't do anything. Gain respect from other players? WHY? You'll only get respect from other people bashing the engine, and trust me, that respect isn't worth much. It's fruitless. There's no cake at the finish line for those of you insulting the engine. It's going no where.
<!--quoteo(post=1786539:date=Jul 27 2010, 07:20 PM:name=cat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cat @ Jul 27 2010, 07:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786539"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, I paid 20$ for early alpha access. This is a deal where I give them the money so I get the alpha to play around with. If I wanted to "support" them I would have sent 20$ in an envelope.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you really went into it with that attitude and didn't account for the possibility that the first day of an Alpha build might be completely and utterly broken, you're an idiot.
<!--quoteo(post=1786580:date=Jul 27 2010, 07:55 PM:name=rein4ce)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rein4ce @ Jul 27 2010, 07:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786580"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I expected such response, no matter how invalid your argument is. I have some experience in designing and programming game engines so I simply know some patterns that emerged in game development.
I am simply pointing out my thoughts. Someone may or may not elaborate on them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As do I, but I don't go around pretending to know more than I actually do.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you really went into it with that attitude and didn't account for the possibility that the first day of an Alpha build might be completely and utterly broken, you're an idiot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do not care the slightest about attitude.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This thread need to be closed asap. We have people claiming to have developed games spouting incorrect information about what alpha builds should be, we have people talking about the usage of other engines, which isn't going to happen, we have lots of trolling, flaming. It's going no where.
The game is not just in it's alpha stages, but it's been in it's closed public alpha test barely over 12 hours. Not only that, but the dev team not only acknowledged the issues, but are working on them. What's worse is, by bashing the engine, what do we hope to accomplish? Punish the devs? WHY? That won't do anything. Gain respect from other players? WHY? You'll only get respect from other people bashing the engine, and trust me, that respect isn't worth much. It's fruitless. There's no cake at the finish line for those of you insulting the engine. It's going no where.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a forum of a commercial game, closing threads of people that have valid complaints about things is something they wont do, as it would enrage paying customers. Also, trying to get a thread closed because you cant handle the arguments of the other side is not cool. After all this is a public +20$ alpha with some connection issues, which I am very confident they will sort out real quick as cory already pointed out. The problem here is the overzealous fanboys that get emotional and start throwing jarate at people. So if you (this does not necessarily mean a specific poster) want to help the game you are so emotional about, stop flaming people that are complaining about connection issues. Because they will complain. They forked over 20$ extra to be able to play it early, and if they cant connect, the forum will get carpet bombed with complaints about that issue. The developers do not need a hateful overemotional fansquad to attack people.
<!--quoteo(post=1786636:date=Jul 27 2010, 07:37 PM:name=Revi.uk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Revi.uk @ Jul 27 2010, 07:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786636"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->As do I, but I don't go around pretending to know more than I actually do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> What do you mean? I do not pretend anything. What is the purpose of your responses anyway? What relevant feedback do you give in your posts?
<!--quoteo(post=1786651:date=Jul 27 2010, 07:55 PM:name=JAmazon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JAmazon @ Jul 27 2010, 07:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786651"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would be hard pressed to call this a 'valid complaint'
"The engine doesn't work flawlessly on first day of alpha testing! They should scrap their entire engine!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I would like to hear a rationale behind this statement
<!--quoteo(post=1786319:date=Jul 27 2010, 12:00 PM:name=cat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cat @ Jul 27 2010, 12:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786319"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Invalid point. We know it is an alpha, but it should be at least in a playable state, like being able to connect to a game and run around.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ran a server and joined the game-... Then ran around.
<!--quoteo(post=1786649:date=Jul 27 2010, 08:55 PM:name=rein4ce)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rein4ce @ Jul 27 2010, 08:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786649"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What do you mean? I do not pretend anything. What is the purpose of your responses anyway? What relevant feedback do you give in your posts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The tone you took in your earlier post struck me as patronising. You offered no actual technical information, thus suggesting you know less than you lead people to believe.
You said something along the lines of "a mistake made by amateur engine developers ( no offence intended )" struck me as down right insulting and so I called you out on it.
You talk about net-code as "insignificant", sorry but where did you learn to design engines if you think that for a solely single player game this would have been treated as insignificant?
Are you even aware of what "refacturing" means?
Lastly, Source ran awfully when it came out back in the day - the reason why it runs so awesomely now is because it's so old.
The rationale is that when the first iteration of an ambitious endeavor doesn't work as expected, that is not grounds for nullifying the entire project.
This was the first time they have tested their net code with more than 25 people... the expectation that there would be no unforeseen issues when this was inflated to nearly 10,000 is just plain naive.
<!--quoteo(post=1786648:date=Jul 27 2010, 01:53 PM:name=cat)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cat @ Jul 27 2010, 01:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786648"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I do not care the slightest about attitude.
This is a forum of a commercial game, closing threads of people that have valid complaints about things is something they wont do, as it would enrage paying customers. Also, trying to get a thread closed because you cant handle the arguments of the other side is not cool. After all this is a public +20$ alpha with some connection issues, which I am very confident they will sort out real quick as cory already pointed out. The problem here is the overzealous fanboys that get emotional and start throwing jarate at people. So if you (this does not necessarily mean a specific poster) want to help the game you are so emotional about, stop flaming people that are complaining about connection issues. Because they will complain. They forked over 20$ extra to be able to play it early, and if they cant connect, the forum will get carpet bombed with complaints about that issue. The developers do not need a hateful overemotional fansquad to attack people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is exactly why this thread should be closed. It's a thread to discuss if UWE should've stuck with the source engine. It's not about complaints, or valid complaints, or w/e. Also, the "valid complaints" should be posted on the getsatisfaction board where the developers will see them, and deal with them. Not on the forums. But as I know, all the complaints, bugs, issues in these forums are ALREADY on the getsatisfaction board. Furthermore, you can even check on the status of those complaints, on the getsatisfaction board. It's almost as if, the getsaitisfaction board, was put out there by the dev's, so all of you could, well, get satisfaction. Ironic no?
I mean come on guys, I'm not trying to punish, chastise, insult, etc, you or anything, I'm just trying to bring you up to speed.
(and before you call me a fan boy who's blindly defending UWE, you should know, I'm the KING of you complainers, why? Well, I've actually posted and documented bugs that needs to be fixed on the, yeah you guessed it, getsatisfaction board.)
<!--quoteo(post=1786669:date=Jul 27 2010, 09:07 PM:name=Kalabalana)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kalabalana @ Jul 27 2010, 09:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1786669"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is exactly why this thread should be closed. It's a thread to discuss if UWE should've stuck with the source engine. It's not about complaints, or valid complaints, or w/e. Also, the "valid complaints" should be posted on the getsatisfaction board where the developers will see them, and deal with them. Not on the forums. But as I know, all the complaints, bugs, issues in these forums are ALREADY on the getsatisfaction board. Furthermore, you can even check on the status of those complaints, on the getsatisfaction board. It's almost as if, the getsaitisfaction board, was put out there by the dev's, so all of you could, well, get satisfaction. Ironic no?
I mean come on guys, I'm not trying to punish, chastise, insult, etc, you or anything, I'm just trying to bring you up to speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do you mean "bring you up to speed"?
This thread has no point whatsoever, mainly because there is simply no discussion needed. UWE made their own engine they're sticking with it - talking about whether or not they should have stuck with it is inconsequential.
Comments
If you couldn't figure that out from the developers explicitly telling it to you, learn from your mistakes and do a little more reading the next time you shell out $20 for something.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I paid 20$ for early alpha access. This is a deal where I give them the money so I get the alpha to play around with. If I wanted to "support" them I would have sent 20$ in an envelope.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This functionality is given!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am not the only one with connection issues, even to dedicated servers. Besides that I can "######" all day if I want about things I do not like.
Even without optimization, the Alpha build is running quite smooth for me, and the detail is absolutely gorgeous; hands down one of the best looking games I've played.
As for sticking with the Source Engine, I'm really pleased that they didn't, this engine has so much potential, and in my opinion it's going to give Source a run for its money.
we had a server with 6ppl with password and could play without problems.
we could build upgrade research, we ran around killed each other and so on.
wait for the hit dedection fix and the anti server flood fix, i think it will come in 2 days.
and then, what else, bad fps? mimimimimimimiiiiii
bad fps came from serverflood, my hardware is never over 30% so whats the problem, there is plenty of space its not cranking around 100% at all four cores and the gpu? so dont mess around
i give em 2 weeks and we will have a full playable game with jetpacks and alien upgrades in it :P
and if not? who cares, i waited years now, so i dont bother about some month?!
ARE YOU?
besides its an alpha, what did you expect? FUN while playing an ALPHA software??? so you have to be nuts or you don't know what you are talking 'bout.
class dismissed
we had a server with 6ppl with password and could play without problems.
we could build upgrade research, we ran around killed each other and so on.
wait for the hit dedection fix and the anti server flood fix, i think it will come in 2 days.
and then, what else, bad fps? mimimimimimimiiiiii
bad fps came from serverflood, my hardware is never over 30% so whats the problem, there is plenty of space its not cranking around 100% at all four cores and the gpu? so dont mess around
i give em 2 weeks and we will have a full playable game with jetpacks and alien upgrades in it :P
and if not? who cares, i waited years now, so i dont bother about some month?!
ARE YOU?
besides its an alpha, what did you expect? FUN while playing an ALPHA software??? so you have to be nuts or you don't know what you are talking 'bout.
class dismissed<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
stating the obvious and logical, must be a fanboy -_-
yep
lol
We appreciate people supporting and defending us and trying to explain what an alpha means to some of the folks who may be unaware of its definition and have had higher expectations. However, we'd appreciate it if it was done in a more constructive manner. A lot of people spent 40$ to play the alpha, and currently there are some big connection and server lag issues, that of course are going to be frustrating for people wanting to play. Even I was frustrated, unable to connect to games last night, as I was looking forward to playing just as much as anyone else.
So, yes, we went from playing with 25 testers on a handful of servers, to between 10-15,000 people all at once. That is bound to expose some major issues that hadn't been a problem in our internal testing phase. But, obviously the major connection issues and lag issues are what we are going to figure out and address as the #1 priority, and hopefully the game will be up and running in much better shape ASAP.
We'd appreciate it if people can be understanding and keep things as civil as possible in the meantime.
Thanks.
--Cory
Plus a lot of work still to go on basic features like, RCON, console input on dedicated servers, chat messages printing in console.
I have spawned as a spectator on the battlefield etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not only is this an alpha, but UWE has already reached the point of no return concerning the game's engine. This thread should've been closed a while ago Comprox.
Sorry, I was in the midst of writing my reply when Squeal replied. Post removed.
- good mechanics, reasonable netcode, configurability in terms of performance
- crappy models and lack of content, missing animations, textures, no optimizations
Judging from what I have seen already it's not looking all that well.
The engine reminds me of a pretty map and model viewer with rushed core functionality.
And that is a common mistake among new engine developers (no offence intended), because it is very difficult to further "fix" the networking if the whole engine isn't designed around this insignificant-looking bit. It might even require a total refactorization of the code, but lets leave that to Max (perhaps the designed system is very flexible, just not yet throughtly tested)
Source engine has mastered two things:
- netcode flexibility (backwards server prediction, lag compensation, complex extrapolation and lots of tweaking options)
- performance configurability (source games could run on lots of different specs, reliability)
The price was mediocre graphics (even compared to other games at the time HL2 was released)
And for example Crysis was on the contrary developed with looks in mind and networking added later - the result was catastrophic I'd say.
Apart from that:
the game itself looks very good, I'm just concerned about the engine part, which might hold back release of the finished product for quite a significant time :(
(and fanboyism on these forums is beyond be, you are doing a great damage to the community if each time voicing a slightest criticism causes a flamewar)
- good mechanics, reasonable netcode, configurability in terms of performance
- crappy models and lack of content, missing animations, textures, no optimizations
Judging from what I have seen already it's not looking all that well.
The engine reminds me of a pretty map and model viewer with rushed core functionality.
And that is a common mistake among new engine developers (no offence intended), because it is very difficult to further "fix" the networking if the whole engine isn't designed around this insignificant-looking bit. It might even require a total refactorization of the code, but lets leave that to Max (perhaps the designed system is very flexible, just not yet throughtly tested)
Source engine has mastered two things:
- netcode flexibility (backwards server prediction, lag compensation, complex extrapolation and lots of tweaking options)
- performance configurability (source games could run on lots of different specs, reliability)
The price was mediocre graphics (even compared to other games at the time HL2 was released)
And for example Crysis was on the contrary developed with looks in mind and networking added later - the result was catastrophic I'd say.
Apart from that:
the game itself looks very good, I'm just concerned about the engine part, which might hold back release of the finished product for quite a significant time :(
(and fanboyism on these forums is beyond be, you are doing a great damage to the community if each time voicing a slightest criticism causes a flamewar)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So where is your game then, since you apparently know so much about how to make one?
This.
I expected such response, no matter how invalid your argument is.
I have some experience in designing and programming game engines so I simply know some patterns that emerged in game development.
I am simply pointing out my thoughts. Someone may or may not elaborate on them.
We appreciate people supporting and defending us and trying to explain what an alpha means to some of the folks who may be unaware of its definition and have had higher expectations. However, we'd appreciate it if it was done in a more constructive manner. A lot of people spent 40$ to play the alpha, and currently there are some big connection and server lag issues, that of course are going to be frustrating for people wanting to play. Even I was frustrated, unable to connect to games last night, as I was looking forward to playing just as much as anyone else.
So, yes, we went from playing with 25 testers on a handful of servers, to between 10-15,000 people all at once. That is bound to expose some major issues that hadn't been a problem in our internal testing phase. But, obviously the major connection issues and lag issues are what we are going to figure out and address as the #1 priority, and hopefully the game will be up and running in much better shape ASAP.
We'd appreciate it if people can be understanding and keep things as civil as possible in the meantime.
Thanks.
--Cory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
:)
Absolutely.
The first thing that came to mind when loading up the server browser last night was that there were 500 games, thousands of players, and previously the testing was done on an entirely different scale and situation. When duplicating the original test condition, few players without undue load on the connection attempts, it seemed to work alright. There was of course some inherent lag, but ns2 alpha was there and interactive.
The alpha test for pre-orderers, at this point, is a peek into the direction of NS2 that the screenshots and short videos can't give. It is a great opportunity to be able to see the game at this stage, and to be in a position where the devs can listen to feedback.
I think the best thing alpha testers can try to do right now is to ignore the glaring issues inherent in the test, the obviously debug-mode performance issues, and instead concentrate on the gameplay and other information that the game gives us and share those thoughts and concerns with the devs.
The community is now the Q&A Team and by this we can assure that the game will rock, because most of the time you play your average mainstream game and come across some weirdness and you think "How could the f uc king Q&A Team not recognize this major flaw ?"
This is now our opportunity and our duty to make NS2 as awesome as possible !
If you have a problem with that, I'm sorry for you and I hope you'll survive it anyway, but to all the others let's work together as a team to make this the new Half-Life AND Starcraft just like UWE dreamed it to be ... we can make this happen.
Spread the love and the dynamic infestation,
1mannARMEE
The OP is pointing out things that don't work right, were supposed to being doing that are we not? Along with listing any bugs we encounter and perhaps things that could be changed in order to make the game better, things that might not have occurred to the developers for some reason or other. Maybe he could be a bit more specific with regard to the performance comment, such as listing his system specifications and how the game was performing on <b>HIS</b> system, what was happening on screen etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The topic of his post was asking if they should've stuck with the source engine. I don't see how that is constructive at all. He was begging to be flamed.
1. Give feedback. There's an ingame reporting link. I'm pretty sure it connect to www.getsatisfaction.com/unknownworlds You can give comments and bug reports. If you're going to report a bug, please be as specific as possible in terms of what happens and what you do to make it happen.
2. Keep up to date on the changelogs as they come out. This will let you know what's supposed to be fixed and how things are supposed to work.
3. Don't stop playing. Even if it's just a little bit every week for a few minutes. Just to keep up with things.
We all want this to succeed because it's good seeing small companies make it in the USA and the game will be awesome when done.
The community is now the Q&A Team and by this we can assure that the game will rock, because most of the time you play your average mainstream game and come across some weirdness and you think "How could the f uc king Q&A Team not recognize this major flaw ?"
This is now our opportunity and our duty to make NS2 as awesome as possible !
If you have a problem with that, I'm sorry for you and I hope you'll survive it anyway, but to all the others let's work together as a team to make this the new Half-Life AND Starcraft just like UWE dreamed it to be ... we can make this happen.
Spread the love and the dynamic infestation,
1mannARMEE<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Here here
The game is not just in it's alpha stages, but it's been in it's closed public alpha test barely over 12 hours. Not only that, but the dev team not only acknowledged the issues, but are working on them. What's worse is, by bashing the engine, what do we hope to accomplish? Punish the devs? WHY? That won't do anything. Gain respect from other players? WHY? You'll only get respect from other people bashing the engine, and trust me, that respect isn't worth much. It's fruitless. There's no cake at the finish line for those of you insulting the engine. It's going no where.
For those of us reporting bugs, and generally trying to help the engine get better, the cake, is very real.
If you really went into it with that attitude and didn't account for the possibility that the first day of an Alpha build might be completely and utterly broken, you're an idiot.
I have some experience in designing and programming game engines so I simply know some patterns that emerged in game development.
I am simply pointing out my thoughts. Someone may or may not elaborate on them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As do I, but I don't go around pretending to know more than I actually do.
I do not care the slightest about attitude.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This thread need to be closed asap. We have people claiming to have developed games spouting incorrect information about what alpha builds should be, we have people talking about the usage of other engines, which isn't going to happen, we have lots of trolling, flaming. It's going no where.
The game is not just in it's alpha stages, but it's been in it's closed public alpha test barely over 12 hours. Not only that, but the dev team not only acknowledged the issues, but are working on them. What's worse is, by bashing the engine, what do we hope to accomplish? Punish the devs? WHY? That won't do anything. Gain respect from other players? WHY? You'll only get respect from other people bashing the engine, and trust me, that respect isn't worth much. It's fruitless. There's no cake at the finish line for those of you insulting the engine. It's going no where.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is a forum of a commercial game, closing threads of people that have valid complaints about things is something they wont do, as it would enrage paying customers.
Also, trying to get a thread closed because you cant handle the arguments of the other side is not cool.
After all this is a public +20$ alpha with some connection issues, which I am very confident they will sort out real quick as cory already pointed out. The problem here is the overzealous fanboys that get emotional and start throwing jarate at people. So if you (this does not necessarily mean a specific poster) want to help the game you are so emotional about, stop flaming people that are complaining about connection issues. Because they will complain. They forked over 20$ extra to be able to play it early, and if they cant connect, the forum will get carpet bombed with complaints about that issue.
The developers do not need a hateful overemotional fansquad to attack people.
What do you mean? I do not pretend anything. What is the purpose of your responses anyway? What relevant feedback do you give in your posts?
"The engine doesn't work flawlessly on first day of alpha testing! They should scrap their entire engine!"
"The engine doesn't work flawlessly on first day of alpha testing! They should scrap their entire engine!"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would like to hear a rationale behind this statement
<!--sizeo:3--><span style="font-size:12pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo--><b><u>Mission Accomplished!</u></b><!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
The tone you took in your earlier post struck me as patronising. You offered no actual technical information, thus suggesting you know less than you lead people to believe.
You said something along the lines of "a mistake made by amateur engine developers ( no offence intended )" struck me as down right insulting and so I called you out on it.
You talk about net-code as "insignificant", sorry but where did you learn to design engines if you think that for a solely single player game this would have been treated as insignificant?
Are you even aware of what "refacturing" means?
Lastly, Source ran awfully when it came out back in the day - the reason why it runs so awesomely now is because it's so old.
This was the first time they have tested their net code with more than 25 people... the expectation that there would be no unforeseen issues when this was inflated to nearly 10,000 is just plain naive.
This is a forum of a commercial game, closing threads of people that have valid complaints about things is something they wont do, as it would enrage paying customers.
Also, trying to get a thread closed because you cant handle the arguments of the other side is not cool.
After all this is a public +20$ alpha with some connection issues, which I am very confident they will sort out real quick as cory already pointed out. The problem here is the overzealous fanboys that get emotional and start throwing jarate at people. So if you (this does not necessarily mean a specific poster) want to help the game you are so emotional about, stop flaming people that are complaining about connection issues. Because they will complain. They forked over 20$ extra to be able to play it early, and if they cant connect, the forum will get carpet bombed with complaints about that issue.
The developers do not need a hateful overemotional fansquad to attack people.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is exactly why this thread should be closed. It's a thread to discuss if UWE should've stuck with the source engine. It's not about complaints, or valid complaints, or w/e. Also, the "valid complaints" should be posted on the getsatisfaction board where the developers will see them, and deal with them. Not on the forums. But as I know, all the complaints, bugs, issues in these forums are ALREADY on the getsatisfaction board. Furthermore, you can even check on the status of those complaints, on the getsatisfaction board. It's almost as if, the getsaitisfaction board, was put out there by the dev's, so all of you could, well, get satisfaction. Ironic no?
I mean come on guys, I'm not trying to punish, chastise, insult, etc, you or anything, I'm just trying to bring you up to speed.
(and before you call me a fan boy who's blindly defending UWE, you should know, I'm the KING of you complainers, why? Well, I've actually posted and documented bugs that needs to be fixed on the, yeah you guessed it, getsatisfaction board.)
I mean come on guys, I'm not trying to punish, chastise, insult, etc, you or anything, I'm just trying to bring you up to speed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do you mean "bring you up to speed"?
This thread has no point whatsoever, mainly because there is simply no discussion needed. UWE made their own engine they're sticking with it - talking about whether or not they should have stuck with it is inconsequential.
Lock this thread.