Clipbrush alternate

Moleculor

Ok, I'm not a mapper, so I'm just gonna ask this... is there an alternate version of the clip brush (say an invisible brush that's solid) that Bob -can- walk on?

realityisdead

I was thinking the null texture would work good for something like this, but, um.... don't even try putting that thing up against a wall... freaky.

For a realistic answer, I would think that a func_wall textured with the "invisible" texture from the halflife.wad, and set at Rendermode Solid with a render amount of 255, would work perfectly.

KungFuSquirrel

As far as NULL goes, just make sure it's a) an entity or b) has VIS line of sight to whatever is behind it. (Null world brushes CAN work, but only under some very strict circumstances, hehe...)

Moleculor

So... there's no way without raising the entity count (as in a func_*? (I dunno if clipbrushes are entities themselves, sooo.. Sorry if I sound like an idiot here. <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo--> )

And what are the specific conditions that NULL brushes can work under?

realityisdead

While I understand your concerns about raising the entity count, I don't think it should cause too much of a problem if used selectively.

I really have absolutley no knowledge of the technical details of the null texture. All I know is that I can put it on the top of the lighting grates in SSNothing to get them out of the commander's face. <!--emo&;)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=';)'><!--endemo-->

Terawatt_99

just out of curiosity, why would you want an invisible surface that bob can climb on?

Moleculor

Because often times there will either be a tiny lip sticking out from a wall (say a computer screen or a button or something... I'm sure that you could think of somethin.. that is only a few units thick. Normally, in real life, a human would walk around such a small obstacle. But in HL it's possible to get stuck on it. Before NS, you would make a 'ramp' 'up' to the edge of the thing made of a clipbrush. Now you can't do that.

Plus, I'd like to simplify some climbing surfaces, if possible.

Terawatt_99

ah, i see...  that would probably be quite useful in certain sections of my map too, now that i know what you're all talking about...

ChromeAngel

In Moleculor's example I would usually make the button or screen a func_illusionary.

badmofo

well molecular lemme clear something up for you...MOST people use clip brushes to REDUCE the max limit on allowable clip space in a map.  Some also do it to make hallways that you dont get stuck on...but with the advent of CS style games...we dont want this anymore...and here is a brief history why:

in older DM games...SPEED was a necessity.  The ability to run backward through a map and shoot constantly.  Thats why clip brushes were put to smooth things like "wall supports", and wat not.  Cover wasn't a big issue here.  NOW - people don't care about speed as much as cover.  they WANT to be able to hide behind that 8 unit wall jut...even if it's not much - it could save your life.  So these days - thats why clip brushes are only used to free up clip space.

NOW - with that in mind...using an entity in place of a clip brush is VERY counter-productive.  Entity's take up TWICE as much clip space (engine just sucks) than world brushes...so infact, you wouldn't be freeing up clipspace...but adding the entities clipspace (x2) to the already existing clipspace.

Mouse

Hey do func_illusionaries still make that sloshing sound when you walk through them? cause i had that happening in one of my CS maps and it was really annoying

realityisdead

<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->NOW - with that in mind...using an entity in place of a clip brush is VERY counter-productive.  Entity's take up TWICE as much clip space (engine just sucks) than world brushes...so infact, you wouldn't be freeing up clipspace...but adding the entities clipspace (x2) to the already existing clipspace.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Remeber that this isn't CS though. We have wall climbers here that can easily get snagged on little extrusions and the likes of complex geometry. This certainly would not be used in an attempt to free up clip space. It may not be a perfect method, but seeing as level1 can't climb on clip brushes used to effectivly "flatten" climbing surfaces, this is really the best I can imgaine actually working. Either that or don't build complex ceilings and walls... not the option of choice in my opinion.



<!--EDIT|ken20banks|Mar. 20 2002,11:11-->

Merkaba

<!--QuoteBegin--Mouse+Mar. 20 2002,09:04--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td><b>Quote</b> (Mouse @ Mar. 20 2002,09:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->Hey do func_illusionaries still make that sloshing sound when you walk through them? cause i had that happening in one of my CS maps and it was really annoying<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span id='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The only do that if you set them to volumic light, I think. Not sure really - mine work fine. Just make sure the content is set to NONE.


I wonder what determins whether or not the alien can walk on a clipface or not? Are there different *kinds* of clipplanes, or has Flayra coded the alien to walk on the actual BSP surface instead of the clipplane?

Moleculor

I dunno how he does it, but it'd be nice to have an alternate clipbrush that can be walked on.

liquidscript

Why is it even made so that Bob can't climb on clip brushes?  I think he should be able to.  It seems more useful for clipbrushes to be used to help bob around complex architecture on ceilings than preventing him from climbing.  As long as he can't climb on sky brushes, that's all you need, i say.

Moleculor

I'm not sure but it does come in handy when you don't want Bob to be climibing on something, such as the walls of a pit that is supposed to be deep enough to kill people and such.

But maybe it'd be easier to make it so it was climbable, and make something similar that isn't climable.



<!--EDIT|Moleculor|Mar. 20 2002,18:06-->

MonsieurEvil

You may run into the problem that mappers had with the older commander/build code of NSTR1. Where they had to place a 'buildable' strip accross anything they wanted to build on - it was a logistical headache. Same thing would arise from a 'func_climbable'...

Cremator

why not use any old brush and then turn it into a func_wall and set the render mode to texture or solid, then set the amount to 0?

Scythe

OR just make little fiddley light fixtures and the like non-solid so bob could just pass through them. This would only work for small supporting struts and the like, not big light fixtures. Otherwise bob youd be able to hide in large brushes.

--Scythe--
the_only_scythe@yahoo.co.uk

liquidscript

Or, we could ask Merl very nicely to code in a new type of clip brush that will be designated by a different texture, and will function the same as a normal clip brush.  But Flayra could code it so Bob can climb on them as well.  <!--emo&:)--><img src="http://www.natural-selection.org/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=':)'><!--endemo-->