Player Building System
spellman23
NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
NS1 Theorycraft Expert Join Date: 2007-05-17 Member: 60920Members
<div class="IPBDescription">either via tools or innate ability</div>As many have stated in several other forums, many players would like some ability for Marines to aid in the building process. Many of these ideas can also translate to Aliens via the Gorge.
One option is that MACs are the only thing that can place buildings, but Marines have the ability to help build them. This can either be an innate ability all Marines have like in NS1 or you have to purchase a special tool from the Armory.
The other option is that Marines can place some buildings. This would probably require a separate tool and would cost personal resources, or you can only place a certain number of these buildings (see TF2 and Empires).
Similarly, for Gorges they would have an innate ability to help speed up building. They already have a building they can place via the Hydra. Originally <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=110593" target="_blank">suggested </a>by RobB
This provides several things.
<ul><li>An outlet for poor shooters to be helpful by helping to build for their team.</li><li>Commanders still have primary control over major buildings.</li><li>If you don't want to help build, you can still help defend.</li><li>Provides the option of "power building," a very fun mechanic from NS1</li></ul>
Discuss.
EDIT: other suggested thoughts:
MACs/Drifters still build the fastest, but Marines/Aliens can help it along [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1789729" target="_blank">link</a>]
Marine tool would be the welder. [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1789741" target="_blank">link</a>]
Players can place smaller, weaker Resource Towers [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1789857" target="_blank">link</a>]
(similar:) Players can only place low-level buildings (my guess would be RTs, Turret factories, etc) [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1789923" target="_blank">link</a>]
Players able to deploy MACs or buy buildings via a MAC [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1789876" target="_blank">link</a>]
Research the ability for Marines to build [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1790528" target="_blank">link</a>]
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110696&view=findpost&p=1790890" target="_blank">Flayra's Thoughts</a>.
One option is that MACs are the only thing that can place buildings, but Marines have the ability to help build them. This can either be an innate ability all Marines have like in NS1 or you have to purchase a special tool from the Armory.
The other option is that Marines can place some buildings. This would probably require a separate tool and would cost personal resources, or you can only place a certain number of these buildings (see TF2 and Empires).
Similarly, for Gorges they would have an innate ability to help speed up building. They already have a building they can place via the Hydra. Originally <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=110593" target="_blank">suggested </a>by RobB
This provides several things.
<ul><li>An outlet for poor shooters to be helpful by helping to build for their team.</li><li>Commanders still have primary control over major buildings.</li><li>If you don't want to help build, you can still help defend.</li><li>Provides the option of "power building," a very fun mechanic from NS1</li></ul>
Discuss.
EDIT: other suggested thoughts:
MACs/Drifters still build the fastest, but Marines/Aliens can help it along [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1789729" target="_blank">link</a>]
Marine tool would be the welder. [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1789741" target="_blank">link</a>]
Players can place smaller, weaker Resource Towers [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1789857" target="_blank">link</a>]
(similar:) Players can only place low-level buildings (my guess would be RTs, Turret factories, etc) [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1789923" target="_blank">link</a>]
Players able to deploy MACs or buy buildings via a MAC [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1789876" target="_blank">link</a>]
Research the ability for Marines to build [<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110709&view=findpost&p=1790528" target="_blank">link</a>]
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110696&view=findpost&p=1790890" target="_blank">Flayra's Thoughts</a>.
Comments
Marines should still have the teleporting/spawning structures, and players can still build them.(slowly)
Maybe have teleporting/spawning structures take 10 or so plasma alongside with the cost of metal. And still have to be built by marines or a weldbot.
I agree there should be some incorporation between marines and building structures. Also, what about gorge assist for rts?
I agree there should be some incorporation between marines and building structures. Also, what about gorge assist for rts?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In what way does the current system remove reliance on players or the commander? Unless I'm mistaken which is always possible, a MAC can either build or attack (when it's fully released.) Unless you're playing single player, I don't see how getting MACs constantly destroyed by skulks and feeding as a commander is considered a lack of need of marines on the commanders part. I don't see any way in which a lone mac will ever survive a single player, regardless of skill, and so marines become the eyes and ears for the commander. Yes, he can watch his one MAC build something, but what's that accomplish in terms of overall accomplishment? He should be managing multiple points of contact, working on upgrades and ensuring that players are properly equipped. I'd say that, because the current armory system supports players picking and choosing their weapon layout in a way that most benefits them, the commander is much more responsible for making sure a) that the players have enough equipment and upgrades to survive anything that comes their way and b) that he can constantly stay busy with managing sites and player information. If anything, players are relying more on the comms knowledge of the field as a whole to know where the most important firing lines will be, and the commander is relying on the players to actually maintain, defend, and relay combat information as it happens so that the battlefield can be properly maintained.
As I've said in a previous thread, Yes, I believe a welder will probably become an optional equipment load-out for marines for one reason - players still have armor. While it's possible that you could run back to the armory and full stat back up to perfection, locations don't tend to stay very well defended when everyone flees when they're running low on HP and armor, and despite what I think most people are currently expecting with the MAC, the comm cannot in no way shape or form be responsible for every players armor being at max. Having 16 people all telling you they need a weld would distract from his need to maintain battlefield order. A welder in NS, for example, properly escorting a heavy squad could be the most useful (if underrated) player in a good assault. Do I think it will help with construction? I don't know, let's see what happens when they do a feature lock-down in god knows how long. All I know is it sounds like most players want to be the lone wolf with combat drops and sneaky strategies, but in the end, human players are Marines, not members of the SeaBee's.
They're practically playing two different games.
[But without marine-turrets, buildings will die.] Sure, marines may ignore aliens, but then they'd be killed before the buildings; they may also sit in a remote corner of the map and avoid action. They may just leave the server. However, as players, they will seek fights, regardless of their feelings of the comm. But socially and psychologically, they'll no longer be giving their approval, even if they're busy shooting at aliens.
MAC builds quicker, while also having the ability to be upgraded 1 time for 1 specific benefit (check the MAC upgrades in the suggestion forums its a good idea)
-Basically the Building drone gets 1 upgrade (moderately priced not cheap or expensive) that gives it a one benefit (ie electric field/small turret to protect against lonely skulks/lerks) or possible a healing/ammunition depot to rearm friendly troops. (Aliens upgrades could revolve around providing short buffs such as damage or possible speed)
-Techie can build smaller structures (turret + anything thats small also), weld doors, carry weapons to remove infestation *chem thrower/flame thrower basically something that doesn't require much aiming) and also help assist a MAC due stuff. The alien equivalent of this would be the gorge.
Just a Suggestion I think this would really help make MACs useful in a squad situation while also not crippling marines having them rely on MAC for basic structures.
Also one more Idea, give techies/gorge the ability to place resource nodes on points (takes as long as build as a resource tower, less hp, less income, however can be built without a MAC/Drifter)
How about when the MAC is not on an order, turn him into a MAC Personell Assisted Carrying Kit? (MAC P.A.C.K.) This allows the marines to attempt to steathily deploy a MAC at a position the commander may not be aware of, and if the marine is lost on the way, so is the MAC. Along with this would be the "standby" (default) option for MAC control, this disables the MAC PACK option while idle in case the commander wants a position secure before sending the MAC, or keeps marines from dtealing the only MAC the comm can afford at the moment. However, jetpacks and a MAC PACK are not both equippable at the same time.
Another idea along these lines is allowing marines to purchase the MAC PACK, or even better, the MINI plugin (Marine Information Navigational Interface plugin,) which from there, allows a limited menu to the marines on the field to build something, but only if the commander has enabled that option. (Hey, some commanders want things done "their way," and to take that from them would be selfish.)
This is my reason for thinking that the marines should have the ability to assist building.
In NS1 Commanding was awesome in the beginning. Then people started becoming back-seat commanders, and it just got frustrating being mic spammed non stop for every selfish player. I think the UWE team is on the right road as far as breaking out some com decisions and adding to his ability to be self sufficient, but there should be a healthy balance of "do it yourself" and "do it for the team". Having a builder bot when nobody is willing to work together is awesome. However, I don't think it should be one or the other. It can be both.
One of the best things about NS1 was that you did not have to be an FPS god to have an awesome game. You could take a laid back support roll for your team, or be aggressive and destroy the enemy. There was something for everyone, and it allowed for a steeper learning curve without running off new players
but that when they get too annoying player can take over
Players should be able to buy a welder for the same cost as MAC's
and only be able to build/weld when they have the welder
NS1 was pretty much perfect in this regard IMHO. Yes NS2 is a completely different game, new, shiny, different but why does the "if it is a new game it HAS to be completely different!!!!" mentality exist here? Don't fix what isn't broken is just as true now as it ever was and I forsee massive issues with balancing as the Aliens will be able to fortify any position at any time while the Marines have to escort their little building machine.
And sure, it is the Alpha and the MACs will improve dramatically - but even with perfect Pathfinding - they're still going to be extremely annoying to deal with.
Also:
<!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Superfly)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Superfly)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->One of the best things about NS1 was that you did not have to be an FPS god to have an awesome game. You could take a laid back support roll for your team, or be aggressive and destroy the enemy. There was something for everyone, and it allowed for a steeper learning curve without running off new players<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
MAC builds quicker, while also having the ability to be upgraded 1 time for 1 specific benefit (check the MAC upgrades in the suggestion forums its a good idea)
-Basically the Building drone gets 1 upgrade (moderately priced not cheap or expensive) that gives it a one benefit (ie electric field/small turret to protect against lonely skulks/lerks) or possible a healing/ammunition depot to rearm friendly troops. (Aliens upgrades could revolve around providing short buffs such as damage or possible speed)
-Techie can build smaller structures (turret + anything thats small also), weld doors, carry weapons to remove infestation *chem thrower/flame thrower basically something that doesn't require much aiming) and also help assist a MAC due stuff. The alien equivalent of this would be the gorge.
Just a Suggestion I think this would really help make MACs useful in a squad situation while also not crippling marines having them rely on MAC for basic structures.
Also one more Idea, give techies/gorge the ability to place resource nodes on points (takes as long as build as a resource tower, less hp, less income, however can be built without a MAC/Drifter)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Making more types of MACs I think just adds to the complexity, and I'm not sure we have the resources to make a new model. So, I personally would say no to this idea.
Also, how would you handle players placing weaker RTs? What if the Comm wants to replace them with the better one? Again, making a new model will be difficult. Perhaps though the MACs can perhaps "modify" a weaker version to upgrade it to the full fledged version?
Interesting ideas, but they've got a few holes.
<!--quoteo(post=1789876:date=Jul 30 2010, 07:02 PM:name=John Top)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (John Top @ Jul 30 2010, 07:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1789876"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I said this in another part of the forum, but I think it'd be a better contribution here;
How about when the MAC is not on an order, turn him into a MAC Personell Assisted Carrying Kit? (MAC P.A.C.K.) This allows the marines to attempt to steathily deploy a MAC at a position the commander may not be aware of, and if the marine is lost on the way, so is the MAC. Along with this would be the "standby" (default) option for MAC control, this disables the MAC PACK option while idle in case the commander wants a position secure before sending the MAC, or keeps marines from dtealing the only MAC the comm can afford at the moment. However, jetpacks and a MAC PACK are not both equippable at the same time.
Another idea along these lines is allowing marines to purchase the MAC PACK, or even better, the MINI plugin (Marine Information Navigational Interface plugin,) which from there, allows a limited menu to the marines on the field to build something, but only if the commander has enabled that option. (Hey, some commanders want things done "their way," and to take that from them would be selfish.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Both really cool ideas and really expand on what MACs could do. Again though, there's the complexity and maybe extra modeling/skins. I really kinda like the idea of delegate a MAC to a marine who then carries it like a backpack to run it through enemy areas and deploy. Then again, perhaps we will have the ability to assign a MAC to<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=110420" target="_blank"> follow a player</a> and it will effectively be the same thing (see link).
The ability for a Marine to effectively buy a building through the MAC though would be kinda neat. Helps delegate a little bit. On the other hand, there's talk of multiple commands who might be in a better position to handle this. So I'm kinda torn on the idea.
What would you consider "tier 1" buildings?
For starters that would include, at least for me, Resource Towers, Turret Factories, and turrets. Anything else?
For starters that would include, at least for me, Resource Towers, Turret Factories, and turrets. Anything else?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
infantry portal, rt's, turret facs, base turrets. possibly armory.
For starters that would include, at least for me, Resource Towers, Turret Factories, and turrets. Anything else?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my experience, "tier 1" in an RTS should be anything that is available from the start and doesn't require additional buildings or upgrades before becoming available.
I severely hope with the lack of PG mention that PG's will still be in the game? PG's should also be build-able IMO.
What does that leave though? Armory? lol
Also I think CC's need to be place-able again. So marines should be able to build these as well.
So really I think there should be no restrictions on buildings just make it slower.
I made a few suggestions back on the other thread starting here:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=110692&view=findpost&p=1790225" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1790225</a>
less resource nodes + harder to set up resource towers = resource towers being more important
Teams will have more incentive to defend their resource towers and have more difficulty setting up towers in areas of the map that they don't have a strong presence in. At least thats how I see it affecting the game.
I support the new system for building.
So marines can help build for a whole 10 seconds before they have to go out into the field, what would the purpose be of spending extra resources for players to help build?
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The other option is that Marines can place some buildings. This would probably require a separate tool and would cost personal resources, or you can only place a certain number of these buildings<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why would the marines be able to place buildings? That should be the commander. Woohoo more money on tools that perhaps only 1 or 2 people would use.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I would also put out there as an option, that all marines can help build, but their build times are 3x longer than a MAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So a MAC can build something in 10-15seconds.. So technically, your contribution to building.. is 5 seconds, doesn't seem helpful. I would think a more interesting and helpful job for a marine would to go out with his squad and take down some alien resources, stop them from going out and getting RTs and getting positioning.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes they can be useful at times however; I don't think they add anything even remotely worth it to the gameplay.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not worth it to gameplay? everyone leaves base.. a bot builds, everyone else is in combat already fighting aliens, taking over dropped resource nodes. Pretty sure that makes the game quicker (forgot to put up the quote for that) And to not adding anything to gameplay. You add a few MACs to a squad to harass a hive, one mac builds, two macs weld the macs can also place mines and weld, and even help attack a little bit if needed. How about having a bunch of MACs late game, push up with all of them into a hive, drop a bunch of mines from each, and wreak havoc. Can use one to even scout if you want '###### there seems to be a lot of stuff in that area, lets just toss out a MAC and see what's over there isntead of sending a player to die for no reason.
For those who seem to not look at the Lua code for what makes will possibly be able to do later on.
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1--> // MACs
{ [kTechDataId] = kTechId.MACMine, [kTechDataMapName] = "mac_mine", [kTechDataDisplayName] = "Lay mine", [kTechDataImplemented] = false, [kTechDataCostKey] = kMACMineCost, [kTechDataPointValue] = 2},
{ [kTechDataId] = kTechId.MACMinesTech, [kTechDataCostKey] = kTechMinesResearchCost, [kTechDataResearchTimeKey] = kTechMinesResearchTime, [kTechDataDisplayName] = "MAC mines" },
{ [kTechDataId] = kTechId.MACEMP, [kTechDataDisplayName] = "EMP blast" },
{ [kTechDataId] = kTechId.MACEMPTech, [kTechDataCostKey] = kTechEMPResearchCost, [kTechDataResearchTimeKey] = kTechEMPResearchTime, [kTechDataDisplayName] = "EMP ability", [kTechDataImplemented] = false },
{ [kTechDataId] = kTechId.AmmoPack, [kTechDataMapName] = AmmoPack.kMapName, [kTechDataDisplayName] = "Ammo pack", [kTechDataCostKey] = kAmmoPackCost, [kTechDataModel] = AmmoPack.kModelName},<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
if it seems a bit unreadable, Lay Mines, Ammo Pack, EMP.
Also the whole point of the game is to make things faster, so why have it so that marines can build slowly, that just defeats the purpose, especially in competitive play whenever the most important thing is to have map control.
Edit: I know players want to seem as though they can contribute something to the game, but once everything is already built.. you're pretty much out there fighting. Sorry but with NS1 I got tired of seeing marines calling out how they want to build base, and they end up doing nothing for the team, and ending up with barely any type of score. Where also that marine could of been up with the others to actually push forward past certain points. Also the most important part of the game is the beginning, wasting time in base has never been a good thing.
<!--quoteo(post=1790400:date=Aug 1 2010, 11:34 AM:name=Frhoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frhoe @ Aug 1 2010, 11:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1789726:date=Jul 30 2010, 02:21 PM:name=spellman23)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spellman23 @ Jul 30 2010, 02:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1789726"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
One option is that MACs are the only thing that can place buildings, but Marines have the ability to help build them. This can either be an innate ability all Marines have like in NS1 or you have to purchase a special tool from the Armory.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So marines can help build for a whole 10 seconds before they have to go out into the field, what would the purpose be of spending extra resources for players to help build?
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Because maybe not all the Marines are building. Maybe the commander wants all the Marines to head out and he'll use the MAC to build. Maybe the Marines are jerks and the commander is forced to use a MAC. MACs are still useful and a great addition since they give the Commander a way to build on their own.
<!--quoteo(post=1790400:date=Aug 1 2010, 11:34 AM:name=Frhoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frhoe @ Aug 1 2010, 11:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why would the marines be able to place buildings? That should be the commander. Woohoo more money on tools that perhaps only 1 or 2 people would use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was a big discussion on the Empires game of being able to place their own buildings, specifically Resource Towers, to help alleviate strain on the commander. Also, this would remove the need to escort a MAC. It is a bit of a niche and not my ideal solution.
<!--quoteo(post=1790400:date=Aug 1 2010, 11:34 AM:name=Frhoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frhoe @ Aug 1 2010, 11:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=1789729:date=Jul 30 2010, 02:27 PM:name=Asimov)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Asimov @ Jul 30 2010, 02:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1789729"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
I would also put out there as an option, that all marines can help build, but their build times are 3x longer than a MAC.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So a MAC can build something in 10-15seconds.. So technically, your contribution to building.. is 5 seconds, doesn't seem helpful. I would think a more interesting and helpful job for a marine would to go out with his squad and take down some alien resources, stop them from going out and getting RTs and getting positioning.
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think a more appropriate number would be MACs build 2x faster. And really even 5 seconds of speed-up can be critical in a face paced game like NS.
<!--quoteo(post=1790400:date=Aug 1 2010, 11:34 AM:name=Frhoe)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frhoe @ Aug 1 2010, 11:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=1790400"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Not worth it to gameplay? everyone leaves base.. a bot builds, everyone else is in combat already fighting aliens, taking over dropped resource nodes. Pretty sure that makes the game quicker (forgot to put up the quote for that) And to not adding anything to gameplay. You add a few MACs to a squad to harass a hive, one mac builds, two macs weld the macs can also place mines and weld, and even help attack a little bit if needed. How about having a bunch of MACs late game, push up with all of them into a hive, drop a bunch of mines from each, and wreak havoc. Can use one to even scout if you want '###### there seems to be a lot of stuff in that area, lets just toss out a MAC and see what's over there isntead of sending a player to die for no reason.
For those who seem to not look at the Lua code for what makes will possibly be able to do later on.
...
if it seems a bit unreadable, Lay Mines, Ammo Pack, EMP.
Also the whole point of the game is to make things faster, so why have it so that marines can build slowly, that just defeats the purpose, especially in competitive play whenever the most important thing is to have map control.
Edit: I know players want to seem as though they can contribute something to the game, but once everything is already built.. you're pretty much out there fighting. Sorry but with NS1 I got tired of seeing marines calling out how they want to build base, and they end up doing nothing for the team, and ending up with barely any type of score. Where also that marine could of been up with the others to actually push forward past certain points. Also the most important part of the game is the beginning, wasting time in base has never been a good thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Then good teams will maximize the utilization of MACs so that their players can run around killing stuff and gaining map control. And if you're in a relatively safe area, say after killing the scouting Skulks, speeding up the building speed will let you move along sooner.
1. A player dying "for no reason" is never actually "for no reason." Previously you sent a player to die because there was no other option AND because a human can give far more tactical information to the Commander then a MAC. If you sent a MAC, he would be able to see structures from the overhead, maybe a gorge here or there, while a Human would be able to see the battlezone in full 3D detailing his surroundings and getting a a better idea of what the Aliens are planning. Maybe an Onos is waiting down the corridor - The Commander would not be able to see that.
2. I will agree with the fact that MACs certainly won't be <b>completely</b> useless, but everything, except for an EMP ability (whatever that will actually do) and an ammo pack layer, a human can do what the MAC can do better and faster. The Marine can make first hand reactions to the battlefield situation wheras the Commanders situational awareness often has a delay. Multiply that delay to account for the selection of the MAC and issuing the MAC some orders. Tactically playing mines may also become an issue in the heat of the battle, so any mines not placed before a major assault takes place may not be suitably placed for maximum dead Aliens. An autonomous weld bot is the only thing I see being extremely useful for gameplay here - and in that case, I would suggest then that they be made into mini-bots that come out of your armor and work on welding it but only after X amount of time has passed since you last received damage.
3. If you could do a late rush with MACs to own the Aliens you can do an early rush just as easier (providing mine laying tech doesn't come at such a high price and so high up in the tech tree) then I guarantee no decent Commander will want to pass up on this option to take advantage of a rather large overpowering flaw. Not unless that Commander wants a 'fair' and 'decent' game. Although, I guess the devs are shooting for that shorter game. But how short do we really want it? Autonomouse mine laying bot + Aware marines who don't have to risk anything and can just shoot willy nilly at anything that moves (or that doesn't, in the case of the hive) = Why are we playing NS2?
4. I don't really have any points towards getting the marines out of base faster and sooner so they can get a foothold on the Aliens. However, this is an FPS/Hybrid. In a pure-RTS, everything pretty much has to be automated, because it is a one-man team. You vs some other guy and a race at how fast you can build and how well you can out-strategize your opponents. In a pure-FPS, everything is pretty much manual - You need to find your opponent. You need to outmaneuvre your opponent. You need to outskill your opponent. You need to kill your opponent.
It is really just my opinion, but is it really a good idea to Automate the Important things in an FPS/Hybrid? The Commander just really has to click on an autonomous bot, tell it where to go, what to do and sit back and strategize. All the Marines have to do no is run in with guns blazing because they've got a mobile siege cannon behind them. They've got this in the bag.
I think the balancing between RTS and FPS was very good. It involved the Commander heavily as well as interactively involved the Marines. It wasn't just about Shooting Aliens. It was about the Commander coming up with a decent strategy (and evolving that strategy as the battlefield conditions changed) and the Marines helping the Commander accomplish the ultimate objective which was to destroy the Aliens. The mutual relationship, The Marines requiring the Commander and the Commander requiring the Marines, is what made the gameplay so immersive I think - and it forced everyone playing to be prepared for Unforseen Consequences.
I'm just getting the feeling that NS2 will be two seperate games an RTS game and an FPS game instead of two genres bound together as one single entity. Yes I know it is the Alpha and things change but this seems like it is in their gameplan. They're chosen their direction and they are pursusing it and I doubt any change about this will happen unless many people concerned talk about it.
Wow...someone meeting us halfway. I could learn to be ok with that idea.
+1 for building...research-able.
in other words macs still have to drop the structures, but marines can speed up the building process. if the mac dies/hovers away and the structure is half built, then marine build speed drops again by 1/2 to simulate them working unsupervised.
Im really not a big fan of marines synthesizing stuff out of thin air, however I wouldn't mind giving them the ability to deploy small structures, with maybe an early tech upgrade of course.
Im really not a big fan of marines synthesizing stuff out of thin air, however I wouldn't mind giving them the ability to deploy small structures, with maybe an early tech upgrade of course.
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=110696&view=findpost&p=1790890" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...t&p=1790890</a>
This however still leaves plenty of room for discussion though. Personally I am perfectly fine with MAC starts and either MAC or Marines build. Some people want MACs to be a backup and the NS1 mechanic to still be in effect (i.e. comm "drops" buildings).