Multiple Start-Infantryportal locations

pSyk0mAn

<div class="IPBDescription">..placed by mapper</div>My question is, can we place multiple, possible locations for the start-ip?

This can add some randomness to gameplay by choosing far opposite locations next to each exit, considering the lower travel times of ns2 maps. All marines who don't buy a weapon and run off immediatly are affected and it slightly changes their traveling times to the adjacent strategic locations.

SN.Wolf

It would be pointless as the commander needs you to escort his weak little builder unless you playing combat that is.

I haven't actually played much as i have been headlong into the editor but is there a reason you couldn't build a map to suite this concept as in jump down to access the armery and take the long way or stay atop for a direct route to your doom? or am i not understanding your question?

Tunis

if i understand the question is whether we can make several possible starting point for the teams and it randomly?

for example a card with four technical point each as likely to be the starting point of a team?


if that is the question then yes it is possible: p

here are some images to illustrate the whole:

what happens in the editor:
<img src="http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/5674/multistart1.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

by joining the server:
<img src="http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1995/ns22010080523004966.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

After a reset:
<img src="http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/6219/ns22010080523003430.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

As you can see the start, are chosen at random at the start of the round in all those available.

I made four neutral entity, but I think two marine and two kharaa must give the same result except that the location can not be exchanged :p

hoping that it was the question :)

good bye !

Edit : i test 2 marine and 2 kharaa entity and that's work in the same way ;)

Lazer

This is very interesting...

So say we have a 'marine' tech point, and 3 'either team' tech points we could effectively recreate an NS1 map with the ability to lock down hives? Or would the alien start never spawn since there is no designated alien only team start? Seems from those results the team specific tech points get priority and then whatever is left over gets randomly decided for the other team's start. So maybe...

Tunis

i haven't test 1 marine and 3 neutral and i think this will not work ( marine can probably start in neutral like kharaa :s )
but 1 marine and 3 kharaa should work i think
(and many other possibility like X marine start and Y kharaa start)

i will test this tomorrow because it's already 00h57 am in France ^^

Lazer

Alright well I know if the map has 1 marine, 1 alien, and however many neutral it will always give the aliens the alien start and marines the marine start so I figure it would assign the marines their start and then because there is no designated spawn for the aliens it will randomly choose 1 from the neutrals? I guess a test is the only way to tell but I'm lazy right now :)

GISP

On a Symetricly balanced map, this could be super! Just like any RTS early scouting of map is cruisial. Think of Starcraft II map and the importance of the early scouting..
NS is after all a FPSRTS game, and this alows the RTS to become a bigger part of the gameplay :)

McGlaspie

This is a good find, but I suspect it is not an intended behavior of the code. I'm assuming, based on how gameplay has been described by Flayra and Friends, this is basically a "bug" in the current alpha code. What Tunis found is the "default to, if all else fails" condition in the team start location code. Then again, I could be completely wrong and it was intended this way from the start. *shrugs*

I guess what I'm getting at: I would be careful about putting the effort into creating maps based on this. We don't know if it will stay this way.

Lazer

Forget where but I've heard Flayra mention this before. I'm pretty sure its intended and might have something to do with the other game modes? (just a guess)

spellman23

Support for random stuff like MvM and AvA is planned, so this is probably the groundwork for that.

The fact we can exploit it to create NS1 style random Alien starts is just an awesome bonus I'm sure.

pSyk0mAn

Wow, this went so in the wrong direction :D

The idea is to have multiple locations for the START-IP within the MARINE SPAWN placed by the mapper.

Every marine that leaves MS straight away after spawning has slightly altered travel times,
for example:

1st possible ip location: 12sec to 2nd expansion; 8sec to closest res node
2nd possible ip location: 10sec to expansion; 10sec to node

It's in the mappers hands to use and balance this, not some automated process to create randomness that might or might not work in some maps/rounds.

In addition the commander can use the slight offset in travel times for his strategy and even place the 2nd IP near the 1st one, if it suits the big plan.


It's no big thing, only 1-2 seconds and only affecting marines that don't need the armory, but it does add randomness.
Since my map has multiple, possible first expansions for each team, this would help.

Tunis

hum

if i understand you want to place yourself the infantery portal in the marine start?

something like that? :
<img src="http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8058/46630300.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />

if that what you want, you can place an infatery portal entity but in my test they have only 30% life (and don't test if we can start on) and there is always the one placed randomness.

here the in game :
<img src="http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5297/ns22010080614165211.png" border="0" class="linked-image" />
like you can see the ip in the back is one that i placed and he have just 30% live :/ and the first is the randomness placed by game. :/

and if you placed it out of the marine start that the same :s
(they will be need to test if you can spawn or not with this but i can't test because you need to died one time for using the ip ^^ )

<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Forget where but I've heard Flayra mention this before<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah me too but I remember he said that for the moment this was not integrate but later they will think.

and i have test, 1 marine start and 3 neutral and that don't work, the marine can start in the neutral zone :s (but 1 marine and 3 kharaa start work ;) )
and 1 marine, 1 kharaa, and 2 neutral and that work, the both team use the neutral start and theirs.

yimmasabi

pSyk0mAn there is no random IP placement support yet. We gonna wait for it !

I think rines should build IPs and Armory at the begining as in NS1